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Author Topic: Keep weapons off Arduino forum and website  (Read 8658 times)
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Do we similarly censor discussions about ovens or toasters, because an oven could be used to cook a bacon sandwich, but some religions proscribe the consumption of pig flesh?

No, we do not.
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Again I don't take a strong stand on the gun control issue, I see that there are valid points on different sides of the issue. I don't personal own a gun. but would like to retain/reserve the right to own one if I ever felt the need.

 But let me propose a specific example question someone might post for help on. Does anyone feel that it would be wrong for someone to post a question on how to make their arduino be able to measure the bullet velocity of their gun in a controlled environment (say a 'test range'), assuming it's legal to own such a gun by the OP?

Lefty
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Let me come back in after a few days abstinence.

I don't know anywhere that it would be illegal to ask this question. But I would prefer if that sort of thing was not acceptable on this forum.

Others have mentioned all sorts of other technology that can cause death and injury and harm people financially. But all those things are different from guns. Guns have only been developed to make it easier to kill people with a lower risk of injury to yourself (compared to hand-to-hand combat, for example).

And I think in this difficult world it would be nice for this forum to set an example and be a "weapons free zone".

This is certainly a moral question and I believe very strongly that technologists must consider the moral implications of everything they do. And by the way I'm an atheist and moral issues are quite separate from religious issues, even if they sometimes overlap.

...R

Does anyone feel that it would be wrong for someone to post a question on how to make their arduino be able to measure the bullet velocity of their gun in a controlled environment (say a 'test range'), assuming it's legal to own such a gun by the OP?

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Let me come back in after a few days abstinence.

I don't know anywhere that it would be illegal to ask this question. But I would prefer if that sort of thing was not acceptable on this forum.

 But then you would be subjecting the forum to your opinion that measuring bullet velocity is not an acceptable
subject. Surely you could see that others might feel differently?


Others have mentioned all sorts of other technology that can cause death and injury and harm people financially. But all those things are different from guns. Guns have only been developed to make it easier to kill people with a lower risk of injury to yourself (compared to hand-to-hand combat, for example).

Guns do have other purposes also do they not? Target practice/competitions, hunting wildlife for example.

And I think in this difficult world it would be nice for this forum to set an example and be a "weapons free zone".
I would support not helping people wishing to make weapons from an arduino.
This is certainly a moral question and I believe very strongly that technologists must consider the moral implications of everything they do. And by the way I'm an atheist and moral issues are quite separate from religious issues, even if they sometimes overlap.

Any tool can be used for good or evil, but that doesn't mean the tool maker is evil.

Lefty


...R

Does anyone feel that it would be wrong for someone to post a question on how to make their arduino be able to measure the bullet velocity of their gun in a controlled environment (say a 'test range'), assuming it's legal to own such a gun by the OP?

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  Should talking about hands be banned? They could be considered concealed weapons if you put them in your pockets.  smiley
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I don't believe this type of censorship has any place on a technology forum. Guns and technology are tools, they are not inherently evil, and they do not cause harm by themselves. Their users determine the amount of harm or good, that come from them. Take the internet for example. Its an amazing tool that has linked the world together and allows for the free transfer on information. People in remote areas that may have never seen a library, now have access to the collected works of the entire world. However, the internet has also given the government's of the world a way to wage war on eachother with limited human casualties.

Look at GPS, the same technology that helps you find your way to a friends house, is also used to guide 40,000lb bombs to their target.

The same electricity that powers your computer, was used for electrocuting people to death.

NASA bought up a bunch of ICBM bodies and used them to launch.....atmospheric monitoring satellites, and communication satellites.

Old naval warships and submarines are routinely used as research platforms.

Nuclear power was used to destroy two cities in Japan, now it is used to provide 30% of their electricity needs.

Mortars, recoiless rifles, and artillery pieces are routinely used to prevent avalanches, saving hundreds of lives per year.

My own state uses M113 Armored Personnel Carriers to deliver firefighters and rescue personnel to hazardous or remote locations.


Censoring information is often pushed as "for the greater good", but there is nothing good about restricting information. It goes against everything the internet is. I am appalled that this is even a topic here.

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This is a typical response. No one ever suggested they are the source of ALL evil, but they are a considerable contributor to it.

evil is evil, no matter if its carried out by the gun or a tablespoon ... actually the tablespoon is more evil, just cause one removes a tool does not mean the job will not be done.
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Really though....

guns don't kill people, people do, and if they don't have a gun they'll have a knife or a base ball bat...  Cars can kill people too!


Bottom line in my opinion, the mental health system needs to be shaken up, you don't catch Gangs going into schools and shooting kids, infact gangs
don't interfere with any law abiding citizen unless you get in their way or start a fight with one, so yes outlaw guns and only outlaws will have them
but that's true for every major city on the planet!

It's the deranged people who have *access* to guns that concern me, and with total gun control, these crazies simply can't go into schools and parks and shoot people, obviously the determined ones who have a point to prove will, but again they fall under the mental health issues.


I'd love to see someone give me an example of where Guns are *bad* not involving a mentally ill person (Gangs, tend to target other gangs...)
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Really though....

guns don't kill people, people do, and if they don't have a gun they'll have a knife or a base ball bat...  Cars can kill people too!


Bottom line in my opinion, the mental health system needs to be shaken up, you don't catch Gangs going into schools and shooting kids, infact gangs
don't interfere with any law abiding citizen unless you get in their way or start a fight with one, so yes outlaw guns and only outlaws will have them
but that's true for every major city on the planet!

It's the deranged people who have *access* to guns that concern me, and with total gun control, these crazies simply can't go into schools and parks and shoot people, obviously the determined ones who have a point to prove will, but again they fall under the mental health issues.


I'd love to see someone give me an example of where Guns are *bad* not involving a mentally ill person (Gangs, tend to target other gangs...)

I agree, Its a people problem, not a gun problem. The numbers show this. There are countries with higher rates of gun ownership, and less crime, and there are places with lower gun ownership and more crime. I live in a state with a very high number of guns per person, very lax gun laws, and very few murders. You can freely walk down the street carrying a gun in my state. There is no wait period for purchasing firearms or ammunition. There are no permits, licenses, or registrations required. There are no laws against private transfer of a firearm (you can even mail them to another person within the state). You can set off up to 40lbs of explosives legally, with no licence, "for recreational purposes". I'm legally allowed to step outside of my house and start target shooting (and many people do this in my area). The minimum age for purchasing a rifle was changed from 16 to 18 in the last 12 years.

Number of people murdered in my state last year: 24
Number of murders involving a gun: 11

The places with high numbers of gun crime tend to be places with a lot of violent crimes. Get rid of the gangs, and switch to a healthcare system (instead of our current disease management system), and we will start seeing homicide rates more in line with the first world. Banning weapons wont stop Americans from wanting to kill eachother. There are only four problem states in the US: Florida, New York, Texas, and California. They all have more than 800 murders per year.
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its like the old west

people are much politer when you know every person is packing heat

and an interesting point about murder rates

Texas is well known for their love of guns and their willingness to use them

New York is known for having some of the most restrictive gun laws in the land

and they are both at the top of the list, lead slug or lead pipe, crazy gonna kill
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 12:50:53 am by Osgeld » Logged


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its like the old west

people are much politer when you know every person is packing heat

and an interesting point about murder rates

Texas is well known for their love of guns and their willingness to use them

New York is known for having some of the most restrictive gun laws in the land

and they are both at the top of the list, lead slug or lead pipe, crazy gonna kill

I think Texas shows up because the statistics do not separate murders from self-defense. They also have a lot of drug and gang crime due to their proximity to Mexico, and a large section of the US border. California really stands out with only 21.3% gun ownership, yet 1,257 out of 1,811 murders involved a firearm. Most likely also gang related. The most interesting statistic is D.C, where it is illegal for a civilian to even own a gun. Lowest gun ownership rate in the country at 3.6%, highest gun murder rate per 100,000 people at 16.5 (also highest murder rate at 21.smiley-cool. Thats more than double the next highest state. You would think with all the bullets flying around there, they might manage to take out one or two of our corrupt politicians.
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How do you define a weapon?  Is a car a weapon?  Are words weapons?  Are electronics weapons?  It depends on how the particular object is being used.  That, then, is also dependent on the intent of the person wielding it.  I don't think it's so easy to just say that this thing is a weapon and that one isn't.
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its like the old west

people are much politer when you know every person is packing heat

and an interesting point about murder rates

Texas is well known for their love of guns and their willingness to use them

New York is known for having some of the most restrictive gun laws in the land

and they are both at the top of the list, lead slug or lead pipe, crazy gonna kill

I think Texas shows up because the statistics do not separate murders from self-defense. They also have a lot of drug and gang crime due to their proximity to Mexico, and a large section of the US border. California really stands out with only 21.3% gun ownership, yet 1,257 out of 1,811 murders involved a firearm. Most likely also gang related. The most interesting statistic is D.C, where it is illegal for a civilian to even own a gun. Lowest gun ownership rate in the country at 3.6%, highest gun murder rate per 100,000 people at 16.5 (also highest murder rate at 21.smiley-cool. Thats more than double the next highest state. You would think with all the bullets flying around there, they might manage to take out one or two of our corrupt politicians.

The Supreme Court overturned the D.C. total ban on hand guns a couple of years ago. They ruled that while local and State governments can implement various controls they cannot implement a total ban.

Lefty
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 06:52:05 pm by retrolefty » Logged

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The Supreme Court overturned the D.C. total ban on hand guns a couple of years ago. They ruled that while local and State governments can implement various controls they cannot implement a total ban.

Lefty

I hadn't heard that. I guess that explains the 3.6% gun ownership rate then. I was wondering about that, who would be dumb enough to report that they own a firearm illegally in our nation's capital?
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I read that the Department of Homeland Security in the USA is ordering 1 billion rounds of ammunition:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-08/gun-ammo-running-out-in-australia-as-us-citizens-buy-big/4742048

Just curious, what would you use a billion rounds on? Are they anticipating the Apocalypse?
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