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Topic: 3D gun printing good or bad (Read 11017 times) previous topic - next topic

liudr

You don't have to own a high-end 3-D printer. There are plenty of online service that will print your design and ship to you. So it is more or less like anyone with access to a design file and a credit card can get the parts.

GoForSmoke

The guys printing gun parts in Texas are licensed and regulated by the BATF. Good luck buying from them without the feds knowing. You will pay more than for a metal gun so unless you're planning on stealthing a metal detector, why buy plastic that doesn't last?

Nick Gammon on multitasking Arduinos:
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts

liudr


The guys printing gun parts in Texas are licensed and regulated by the BATF. Good luck buying from them without the feds knowing. You will pay more than for a metal gun so unless you're planning on stealthing a metal detector, why buy plastic that doesn't last?




Good point. If you plan to only carry the plastic gun past a security check point. Then you will need bullets.

wizdum

#33
Jun 24, 2013, 03:57 am Last Edit: Jun 24, 2013, 04:00 am by wizdum Reason: 1

You don't have to own a high-end 3-D printer. There are plenty of online service that will print your design and ship to you. So it is more or less like anyone with access to a design file and a credit card can get the parts.


I doubt it. That would be highly illegal. Multi-hundred-thousand dollar fines and a few decades in jail - illegal. In the US you can make your own gun legally, but you cannot have someone else make it for you. If you pay someone to print off a gun for you, that person has to be registered with the ATF as a firearms manufacturer, as well as a distributor, and the gun would have to be shipped to another firearms dealer near you so that you can pick it up in person and fill out all the background check forms.

I also do not buy the metal detector argument. Since you need to conceal it, you would only be able to use a small caliber pistol, theres no room for the extra reinforcement. Its a single shot pistol with a 15m range, a plastic/ceramic knife would be more effective.
"Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation."

Electronic props for Airsoft, paintball, and laser tag -> www.nightscapetech.com

GoForSmoke

This whole fixation with high tech methods to do what low tech has done before as if it's new kind of amazes me. Don't they teach shop in school any more? Or just how to shop?



Nick Gammon on multitasking Arduinos:
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts

liudr

The printing service may be unaware of what's printed so how do they decide if they are printing an article that might be illegal in the customer's country. Your illegal argument is not going to stop things being printed out. Anyway the US laws don't apply overseas and lots of manufacturing happens outside this country. I was just trying to make a point that YOU don't have to own an expensive 3-D printer to print stuff in quality. I've been getting laser cut stuff since 3 years ago and never have seen a laser cutter. I doubt the service providers are fully aware what exact things I have been ordering.

wizdum


This whole fixation with high tech methods to do what low tech has done before as if it's new kind of amazes me. Don't they teach shop in school any more? Or just how to shop?



When I graduated it 2008, shop was no longer being taught. Too much of a liability for the school. It was a shame too, as my school was built fairly recently and had purchased a lot of new tools, along with a nice shop area.


The printing service may be unaware of what's printed so how do they decide if they are printing an article that might be illegal in the customer's country. Your illegal argument is not going to stop things being printed out. Anyway the US laws don't apply overseas and lots of manufacturing happens outside this country. I was just trying to make a point that YOU don't have to own an expensive 3-D printer to print stuff in quality. I've been getting laser cut stuff since 3 years ago and never have seen a laser cutter. I doubt the service providers are fully aware what exact things I have been ordering.


I mentioned US law because it is my understanding that most countries do not allow citizens to make their own firearms legally, so laws in other countries would be even more restrictive. Certain parts of the firearm are going to have to be made in one piece. The only reason the prototype pistol works is because it is one solid, oversized chunk of plastic. Trying to make it up with multiple pieces would just have the thing blow up in your face. These service providers are going to have a vested interest in making sure they aren't accidentally making gun parts. Things like bolts, trigger groups, and magwells are pretty obviously firearm parts.

Also, ask Kim Dotcom how that whole "US law doesn't apply to citizens of New Zealand" thing worked out. Last time I checked his company was destroyed and he's still trying to get his seized property back.
"Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation."

Electronic props for Airsoft, paintball, and laser tag -> www.nightscapetech.com

liudr

Still trying to make my point here "you don't need expensive 3-D printer to print quality parts", period. You are assuming every piece of 3-D printed part gets scrutinized at the print house so illegal or unsafe parts are not made. That is naive. Yeah, the vested interest is there. But no, there is no time to act on that interest and police every part they make. Notice, my point has not mentioned whether parts are legal. I was countering someone else argument that you need to be made of money to have good 3-D printed parts. You don't.

westfw

Apparently, the state of the gun design files are such that they're ONLY likely to print on that one particular printer.
I don't know how many of the 3d printing services have that printer, or how many of them would be willing to print a gun, or how many would pay enough attention to notice that they were printing a gun (or pieces of a gun.)

In the US, it seems to be particularly academic, since you can apparently find plenty of places that will sell parts and pieces and kits and instructions to make MUCH BETTER GUNS, with only minor effort on your own part.  This showed up recently:

Quote
John Zawahri, the 23-year-old Santa Monica spree killer, tried to buy a gun in 2011 but was denied by the Justice Department for unknown reasons. So Zawahri, who suffered from mental illness, circumvented that firewall by building his own AR-15 semi-automatic rifle using parts he bought from various sources around the country.

CBS News with Scott Pelley reported Friday that the sale of most gun parts online is not regulated, except for one critical component: the lower receiver, which holds the mechanical parts of the gun, such as the trigger. A background check is required to buy one, but Zawahri got around that by buying a partially-completed lower receiver and modifying it, something gun enthusiasts call 80-percent guns. The resulting gun, which fired .223-caliber ammunition, was untraceable.


liudr

Not just gun parts sales online are not regulated, lots of things sold online are not regulated as they are when they are sold in stores. I honestly don't know how these things can be regulated with the sheer volume and different sellers online. Tax is not even charged for lots of these sales although where I live there is a required use tax if electronics are purchased online. Honest citizens are supposed to pay them somehow though LOL

pYro_65

#40
Jun 24, 2013, 04:59 pm Last Edit: Jun 24, 2013, 05:03 pm by pYro_65 Reason: 1

Not just gun parts sales online are not regulated, lots of things sold online are not regulated as they are when they are sold in stores. I honestly don't know how these things can be regulated with the sheer volume and different sellers online. Tax is not even charged for lots of these sales although where I live there is a required use tax if electronics are purchased online. Honest citizens are supposed to pay them somehow though LOL


Very true, a few years ago I bought some lasers rated at 200mW - 2000mW, the items were seized by customs ( max 5mW for general use/pointer style in Australia ) and I got an empty package, so the seller simply marked the package as a gift rather than electronics and the package made it through unopened. The same thing has been done to products from countries with high tax or restrictive laws on certain products like high speed ADC's. I'm not sure but I think the US once classified some of these under munitions law, like PGP was.

GoForSmoke

#41
Jun 24, 2013, 07:12 pm Last Edit: Jun 25, 2013, 12:19 am by GoForSmoke Reason: 1
Note for the clueless: the following is extreme sarcasm suggesting that some stupid people, not me, would actually say.

And then we wonder why there are so many regulations and restrictions "just because some people got killed".

Nick Gammon on multitasking Arduinos:
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts

wizdum


Still trying to make my point here "you don't need expensive 3-D printer to print quality parts", period. You are assuming every piece of 3-D printed part gets scrutinized at the print house so illegal or unsafe parts are not made. That is naive. Yeah, the vested interest is there. But no, there is no time to act on that interest and police every part they make. Notice, my point has not mentioned whether parts are legal. I was countering someone else argument that you need to be made of money to have good 3-D printed parts. You don't.


So we're probably going to end up in the same situation we have with copyright infringement? Where the government is saying "you have to stop this!" And the printing companies are saying "we'd have to hire 400,000 new employees to personally inspect each part". I guess I can see that. The firearms manufacturers don't care about individual consumers, they make all their cash from government contracts, so the only real pressure to catch people printing gun parts would be coming from the anti-gun organizations. Thats not going to be a tremendous amount of pressure, I can see the 3D print houses winning this.
"Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation."

Electronic props for Airsoft, paintball, and laser tag -> www.nightscapetech.com

AWOL

Quote
max 5mW for general use/pointer style in Australia
Is there much of an indigenous low-power semiconductor laser industry to protect?
Or do they constitute an unfair advantage when lamping for kangaroos?
"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.

wizdum


lamping for kangaroos?


Ok, I have to ask. Is that like night hunting?
"Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation."

Electronic props for Airsoft, paintball, and laser tag -> www.nightscapetech.com

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