Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
Author Topic: "The Physics Problem"  (Read 3037 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 58
Posts: 4012
I learn a bit every time I visit the forum.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

It's actually a bit more complicated about the point where your knee, foot, ankle or part of the side of the bike fulcrums support for the mass of the bike.

Models are fine as models but reality has ALL the details.
Logged

Examples can be found in your IDE.

Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 6
Posts: leet
If you're not living on the Edge, you're taking up too much space!
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

The formula is simple with the 3 variables I mentioned.  You cannot find the constant using math.  It's much better to find it experimentally for the specific rider and bike you want.
Logged

If you fall... I'll be there for you!
-Floor

Skype Brighteyes3333
(262) 696-9619

Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 58
Posts: 4012
I learn a bit every time I visit the forum.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Yup. Make a good run and collect data then work it through some math and say "that's what it must be!".
Logged

Examples can be found in your IDE.

ਪੰਜਾਬ
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 7
Posts: 1545
Another year! Alone! :(
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

@ s bright 33 ,yup! true , my Math is good Including being the best at trignomity.

But physics is something I left studying very early so Im loose on various points of understating.

Im presently studying the Bike physics page suggested to me by madphysicist.
Logged

"Real Men can Accomplish  Anything"
-  Website  
- skype : nishants5  

ਫ਼ਤੇਹ ਕਰੂਂ !

South Texas
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 8
Posts: 1023
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

If you see the following video >> BMW S1000RR CRASH - http://youtube.com/watch?v=_A_PFBRAx9w

You will see that the riders AT A CERTAIN SPEED , WITH A GIVEN WEIGHT , ALONG WITH A CERTAIN ANGLE OF TILT goes down as the gravitational pull acts like that(may be I don't know better)

I actually wanted to know that one can know using physics that he can calculate that how much he can successfully tilt the bike like in the video GIVEN (he knows the weight of the vehicle in total (including him) + knows the Gravitational pull + the speed )

Assumptions can be:
a) The road is not wet.
b) Normal sunshine is there making the road a normally hot

He pushed the bike a bit more than the tire friction could take and down he went. That is one of the variables that can be a bit harder to control. A drop of oil/water/spit/snot at just the right spot and the traction picture can change just enough to drop you on your side like that. The opposite can happen also. Your are in the slide and all the sudden you have traction. WHAP!!! and you go down even harder on the opposite side. First crash is a low side, second type is a high side.
Logged

South Texas
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 8
Posts: 1023
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I'm amazed there's no gyroscope/accelerometer to give warnings to the rider that they've about to hit point of no return...

some kind of buzzer to alert the rider....

Like he really has the time and spare thinking power to pay attention to some sensor. When you are laid over like that at speed you are putting every bit of spare processing power into feeling what is happening in real time, and the time to process some number on a display would only be letting you know why you went down, not that you were nearing the edge. What got this guy in trouble was that he didn't quite read the bike right and was just a hair fast.
Logged

ਪੰਜਾਬ
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 7
Posts: 1545
Another year! Alone! :(
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
A drop of oil/water/spit/snot at just the right spot and the traction picture can change

Assumptions can be:
a) The road is not wet.
b) Normal sunshine is there making the road a normally hot

atleast such sort of calculation will definitely help, it will not take away rider's judgment completely but will Supplement what he thinks he's doing and coupled with All that Math and Rider's judgment/experience this may wholly be a great riding experience which is also secure upto some extent.
Logged

"Real Men can Accomplish  Anything"
-  Website  
- skype : nishants5  

ਫ਼ਤੇਹ ਕਰੂਂ !

Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 58
Posts: 4012
I learn a bit every time I visit the forum.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

More complete explanation with pictures and diagrams here:

http://www.stevemunden.com/leanangle.html

Logged

Examples can be found in your IDE.

Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 6
Posts: leet
If you're not living on the Edge, you're taking up too much space!
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Here's the formula BUT....   

.067 v2/r = tana

the constant 0.067 depends on many difficult to measure things like rider weight/geometry, bike weight/geometry, tire dimensions/u, street surface, how the rider is sitting or hanging off.  0.067 is anything but constant.  You can't calculate it, you have to measure the 3 variables first.  The maximum lean angle is much easier all you need is u=tana.




Logged

If you fall... I'll be there for you!
-Floor

Skype Brighteyes3333
(262) 696-9619

Global Moderator
Netherlands
Offline Offline
Shannon Member
*****
Karma: 168
Posts: 12430
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, however in practice there are many...
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
0.067 is anything but constant.  You can't calculate it, you have to measure the 3 variables first.
sort of empirical determined variables, most important to determine is how the original variables influence "the constant", linear exponential quadratic chaotic etc.
If that is determined one can derive formulas and calculate it.

This is sometimes trivial, but often rather complex as the variables you start with and measure may not be the "root" variables but depend on an underlying mechanism.
Furthermore the "root" variables may change in time which causes the need to recalculate the "constant" constantly. Rules of thumb and approximations maight become the only workable solutions.


Logged

Rob Tillaart

Nederlandse sectie - http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/board,77.0.html -
(Please do not PM for private consultancy)

Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 58
Posts: 4012
I learn a bit every time I visit the forum.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

And note that the speed you can take a certain radius turn will be different in a level turn vs a descending or rising turn.

Racers learn the course before trying for maximums. A good rider knows how far he or she can lean and still there is no guarantee of safety. What margin you give is the margin you get. Just because someone has killed a tiger with a stick doesn't mean to approach tigers with sticks.

Logged

Examples can be found in your IDE.

ਪੰਜਾਬ
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 7
Posts: 1545
Another year! Alone! :(
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
0.067 is anything but constant.
This Constant is a Constant problem.
Logged

"Real Men can Accomplish  Anything"
-  Website  
- skype : nishants5  

ਫ਼ਤੇਹ ਕਰੂਂ !

Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 6
Posts: leet
If you're not living on the Edge, you're taking up too much space!
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Actually the lean angel WITH RESPECT TO GRAVITY, does not depend on the road surface banking angle.  I may have mistakenly included a few variables in my list that do not change the constant, but some of them do.
Logged

If you fall... I'll be there for you!
-Floor

Skype Brighteyes3333
(262) 696-9619

ਪੰਜਾਬ
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 7
Posts: 1545
Another year! Alone! :(
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

yes I understand the explanation on that page was Really precise.
the only thing now holding me back is how can I get the Radius 'I was banking Upon accelerometer to get the tilt & its corresponding Radius by forming a look-up table.
Logged

"Real Men can Accomplish  Anything"
-  Website  
- skype : nishants5  

ਫ਼ਤੇਹ ਕਰੂਂ !

Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 6
Posts: leet
If you're not living on the Edge, you're taking up too much space!
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

There's no cheap way to measure tilt.  You'd need an expensive Gyro because of the vibration.  Accelerometers are useless of course.  The only way I can think of to measure radius is predetermined based on the road, or GPS.
Logged

If you fall... I'll be there for you!
-Floor

Skype Brighteyes3333
(262) 696-9619

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
Jump to: