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Author Topic: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware?  (Read 3832 times)
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Bordeaux, France
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I noticed on the Arduino Yun product page that there is only a partial board schematic, not featuring the Linux/WiFi part of the Arduino Yun, and no editable design file.

This is different from all other Arduino boards until today, for which full schematics and editable design files have been made available.

Is this situation temporary?
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Chicago
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What's missing from schematic?

The "MIPS 24K" is the Linux/WiFi chip, aka: "Hornet", AR9331.
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The only "Hornet" I know of is not a "chip" but an AR9331-based router from ALFA Network:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/alfa.network/hornet-ub

And the "MIPS 24K" block in the schematic cannot just be the AR9331 SoC alone: the AR9331 chip is a 148-pin, 12 mm x 12 mm dual-row LPCC package, without any built-in SDRAM or Flash memory, requiring a handful of support components.

So, what is exactly under the shield?
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The only "Hornet" I know of is not a "chip" but an AR9331-based router from ALFA Network:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/alfa.network/hornet-ub
.....
So, what is exactly under the shield?

The schematic seems fairly complete to me http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino-Yun-schematic.pdf
The RAM for instance is on the last page of the pdf ...

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The schematic seems fairly complete to me http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino-Yun-schematic.pdf
The RAM for instance is on the last page of the pdf ...
?!?

There is no RAM of Flash chip in the schematic. On the last page, I only see:
  • The combo USB hub + SD Card controller chip U14 (AU6350MGL)
  • The microSD connector JP2 with ESD diodes D12~D18
  • The USB-A Host connector J4 with ESD diodes U18
  • The USB overcurrent protection chip U15 (MIC2005A-1YM5)
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Hi squonk,
I guess the WIFI module with the shield may be similar to WR703n, the one you once did the reverse engineer on it(Very amazing, and so appreciate).
I don't see any special on arduino yun schematic, biggest difference maybe the USB-Hub chip intergrated with the SD card reader.
Thanks for what you did on the RT5350 chip to make openwrt run on it.
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I guess the WIFI module with the shield may be similar to WR703n, the one you once did the reverse engineer on it(Very amazing, and so appreciate).
Thanks gaplee!
The WR703N is a commercial product, so there was no other choice... I hope this is not the case with the notoriously Open Hardware Arduino platform!

I don't see any special on arduino yun schematic, biggest difference maybe the USB-Hub chip intergrated with the SD card reader.
Yes, I know the AU6350-MGL chip, very good choice, although you can't get it easily at your corner shop.

Thanks for what you did on the RT5350 chip to make openwrt run on it.
It seems you follow all my moves smiley
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This might help answer some questions....?
Adafruit's "Ask an Engineer" show w/ guest Massimo Banzi. They start talking about Yun, and what's beneath the metal shield at around the 17 minute mark.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3dtnu-neRUo
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 11:53:54 am by 1ChicagoDave » Logged

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I think that if you wanna see the schematic you'd better go to SoC development platform, something like "evalue board", which comes with schematic and such a detailed hw stuff. "Carambola" boards may be interesting.

About WR703N i think it is a toy, poor ram (32Mbyte), poor flash(4Mb), hardcoded uboot's env, no good at all! Also only 2 usable gpio.
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This might help answer some questions....?
Adafruit's "Ask an Engineer" show w/ guest Massimo Banzi. They start talking about Yun, and what's beneath the metal shield at around the 17 minute mark.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3dtnu-neRUo
Thank you for linking this video!

Always interesting to see Massimo, although it doesn't give much details about the Linux hardware...

What I fear that with the excuse of providing a trendy "Cloud" access, the Arduino Yun is denying its Open Hardware roots smiley-sad
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From my point of view the SoC is just an accessory around arduino, something like the wifi shield, so you could see it as "black box", something you can talk through the bridge on the serial port. Also, why do you want to toy with a very complicated piece of hardware ? Soldering and handling the Atheros SoC is not a piece of cake, so any really reason to have much more details about.
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I think that if you wanna see the schematic you'd better go to SoC development platform, something like "evalue board", which comes with schematic and such a detailed hw stuff. "Carambola" boards may be interesting.
No, the Carambola doesn't give you the module schematic either, only the uninteresting connectors and passive stuff...

About WR703N i think it is a toy, poor ram (32Mbyte), poor flash(4Mb), hardcoded uboot's env, no good at all! Also only 2 usable gpio.
You can find some hacks to upgrade the RAM to 64MB and the Flash to 16MB, or buy some already upgraded for you.

The hardcoded environment is really not a big problem, since you don't spend your life in there:)

As for the GPIOs: Linux is far from real-time, and beside blinking a LED with these GPIOs, it is not very useful. The best thing to do is to connect it to a microcontroller to delegate the real-time GPIO control. In this regard, the Arduino is a very good choice IMHO.

There are cheaper alternatives to the WR703N, like the TopLink TOP-AP01:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/913315915/RT5350_150Mbps_embedded_wifi_router_AP.html

Only $7.5 in a 8MB/32MB configuration...
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From my point of view the SoC is just an accessory around arduino, something like the wifi shield, so you could see it as "black box", something you can talk through the bridge on the serial port. Also, why do you want to toy with a very complicated piece of hardware ? Soldering and handling the Atheros SoC is not a piece of cake, so any really reason to have much more details about.
The WiFi "black box" is what makes the Yun different from the Leonardo!

Why are you tinkering with an Arduino? You have to wire stuff, solder components, why don't you just program on a PC;)

This is all about learning, building stuff to understand how it is working, knowledge and freedom: you know, all these boring matters...  smiley-wink

Please take a look at my reverse engineering efforts on the TL-WR703N to see my determination smiley-mr-green
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No, the Carambola doesn't give you the module schematic either, only the uninteresting connectors and passive stuff...

you can ask for the evalue version, paying the difference to have the schematic.

You can find some hacks to upgrade the RAM to 64MB and the Flash to 16MB, or buy some already upgraded for you.

I did myself, so annoying stuff.

The hardcoded environment is really not a big problem, since you don't spend your life in there:)

well, if you develop kernel, rootfs, kernel-drivers, you need automatic tftpboot, so you need to change bootm, bootargs, ipserver, and such a stuff. I am developing a customized version of uboot in oder to do that cause stopping uboot and to manually change things is so boring!

As for the GPIOs: Linux is far from real-time, and beside blinking a LED with these GPIOs, it is not very useful

With 3 gpio i can have spi-uart (miso/mosi/cs), bit banging a bit, but the uart part is made by hw. With 2 gpio i can have just an i2c. I am using the SPI-flash SPI MISO/MOSI and 1gpio to handle the spi-uart, where an MPU is attached. I do not want to use the only serial that the SoC can provide, it is the uboot/linux console and must be preserved free of any usage!

There are cheaper alternatives to the WR703N, like the TopLink TOP-AP01:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/913315915/RT5350_150Mbps_embedded_wifi_router_AP.html
Only $7.5 in a 8MB/32MB configuration...

good.
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Why are you tinkering with an Arduino? You have to wire stuff, solder components, why don't you just program on a PC;)

Avr8:Atheros is 10000:1 ratio of complexness! Why should you want to toy with a SoC if you are NOT able to solder and handled the high frequencies on the PCB ?

Please take a look at my reverse engineering efforts on the TL-WR703N to see my determination :smiley-mr-

Personally i think he has a lot of time to trash, no really usage of this reverse, what could you do with this information ? Designing a new board ? Soldering it ? Handling it ? Facts are showing me people is "happy" speaking telling each outer "how pretty is OpenHardware", but when the complexness is 10000:1 then they go buying an already done & cheap router and hack it to have an other linux toy.

So enjoy it.
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