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Author Topic: US shutdown - safe mode  (Read 4907 times)
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Maine
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I would like to be able to afford a fine steak, and I do get a bit pout off when some yob with a government aid card can buy the steaks that I can't afford. Why should he be able to eat well and get fat when I am working and have to eat beans?
So where do you get this sort of information from? I bet it is the press and fox news. Do you actually know anyone like this?

We have the same problem with propergander in the UK. In virtually all cases on proper investigation these stories are found to be either a simply lie or exaggerated out of all proportion.
It is estimated that 0.7% of claims for benefit in the UK are fraudulent so that means out of every 1000 people 7 are ripping you off. So do you intend to punish the other 993 people because of these seven? That is a very odd an uncivilized attitude if you do, and I am sure you wouldn't.

I am sure if a relative or friend lost there job you would help wouldn't you?

One trick that Fascist pull is to depersonalize and dehumanize people, it then makes them much easier to hate and persecute them. That is how Hitler did it and every other evil faction, it is the oldest trick in the book, don't fall for it.


Its just one of the convenient forms of misdirection used by the sociopaths that run our country. Theres a lot of talk of "cracking down" on election fraud as well, even though the number of fraudulent votes per election is about 30 out of 241,000,000. Both parties are owned by the same corporations, so they had to do something to differentiate themselves. I actually do know people that take advantage of the system, and it bothers me, but not enough to shut down the system for everyone. Thats just stupid. What we really need to do is evaluate and restructure the systems that we have. We have all these welfare programs that overlap in services and coverage area, that cost way more than they should, while still leaving giant holes in coverage.

I have a problem with the federal government providing welfare to the citizens, because that is the job of the states. The federal government should only be involved enough to ensure that the individual state programs all follow similar rules, so that citizens can move from one state to another without losing coverage or services (If you are injured outside of your state, or an out of state hospital is closer, you should still be covered).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 11:55:58 am by wizdum » Logged

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We do tend to be a more conservative lot, and there is a growing sense that the entitlements are getting a bit rich. I would like to be able to afford a fine steak, and I do get a bit pout off when some yob with a government aid card can buy the steaks that I can't afford. Why should he be able to eat well and get fat when I am working and have to eat beans?

My father-in-law worked every day of his life from 8 (driving a logging truck with his older brother) to 62.  He retired "early" because the manual labor jobs he worked destroyed his body.  He worked creating the lumber used to build your house.  He worked building the roads that allow you to travel this great country; the roads that bring you food.  He worked hauling things, like your food, over those same roads.

He did not earn enough to keep his family alive.  They could not quite afford the food they needed so they grew what they could not afford.  They could not afford new clothes so his wife made clothes for the family.

His entire retirement "income" comes from Social Security which is significantly below the Federal poverty level.  By the end of the year, your delusional perspective will result in his no longer receiving Social Security checks.  At that point, without aid from his family, he will no longer be able to afford property tax and will lose his house, he will no longer be able to afford food, and he will no longer be able to pay for the energy needed to survive the winter.

@kf2qd, I will happily buy you a steak if you stop threatening to take away what very little my father-in-law has left.
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One trick that Fascist pull is to depersonalize and dehumanize people, it then makes them much easier to hate and persecute them. That is how Hitler did it and every other evil faction, it is the oldest trick in the book, don't fall for it.

This is being done in Australia. There is debate about asylum seekers arriving in this country. An advertisement run by the (former) government designed to discourage "boat people" showed an old rickety boat, but strangely no people on board it. The slogan "stop the boats" was used, and the ad showed a boat approaching the country. Odd, that a boat would not have people on board. But showing men, women and children on the boat would humanize them, generate sympathy.

Similarly the people seeking asylum were referred to "illegals" (illegal immigrants) rather than people or asylum seekers. It is easy to reject an "illegal" rather than a father, mother and child fleeing persecution. And of course they are not in fact illegal until due process of law has found them to be so.
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It is estimated that 0.7% of claims for benefit in the UK are fraudulent so that means out of every 1000 people 7 are ripping you off. So do you intend to punish the other 993 people because of these seven? That is a very odd an uncivilized attitude if you do, and I am sure you wouldn't.

here in italy the number are worst, at least 2/3 times at year someone is cought stealing money from many times with fake blindess or invalidity.
BUT we still support it, and we are happy with it, i've listen to people from far right to far left, the only discrimination PROPOSED on healtcare was that illegal immigrants was to be charged from the police after tratment.. and it didn't pass

And we are talkin about Italy, where pseudo-fascism is strong, "the right" is on charge with berlusconi for many year (like 20 in the last 25 years) AND we have a lot of problem with illegal immigrant (read: escaping from syria, etiopia and souch country), as they see italy as the jump point for the rest of europe
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Similarly the people seeking asylum were referred to "illegals" (illegal immigrants) rather than people or asylum seekers.

Perhaps because they were in fact, illegal and "jumping the queue" in front of all those seeking to enter the country by due process of law, by paying upward of $10,000 apiece on the black market.

Perhaps that way of doing business in their home countries, actually made them unpopular.
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Can you post a photo of this queue?

The thing is, you can't just assert that people have done something illegal. Due process means you allege a crime, that crime is then tested before a properly constituted court of law, with proper legal representation, in front of a jury, and then you are found guilty or innocent. Until such time as you are found guilty, you aren't "illegal".
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Perhaps that way of doing business in their home countries, actually made them unpopular.

people with "buisness" and unpopular desn't come with illegal immigrant, but in buisness class.
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Until such time as you are found guilty, you aren't "illegal".

Wow!  That's some doctrine to live by.

Just ... wow!
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Until such time as you are found guilty, you aren't "illegal".

Wow!  That's some doctrine to live by.


Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence
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Wow!  That's some doctrine to live by.

Just ... wow!

Indeed. From the page pico linked:

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The fundamental right

This right is so important in modern democracies, constitutional monarchies and republics that many have explicitly included it in their legal codes and constitutions:

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 11, states: "Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.".

If you have a problem with The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, well that's up to you. However, I believe Australia assisted in drafting it and voted in favour of it.
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Perhaps because they were in fact, illegal and "jumping the queue" in front of all those seeking to enter the country by due process of law, by paying upward of $10,000 apiece on the black market.

Perhaps that way of doing business in their home countries, actually made them unpopular.
Let me get this right. Are you saying that these people are driven out of their own country because the way they behave is unpopular? Blaming the victim, you must be in the police force.

Many of the people fleeing their own country do not have the education you have and are not aware that what they are doing is paying on the black market, they believe that this is the correct way into the country. Often the people doing the trafficking have them paying back the "debt" for years.

When people escaped from the old Soviet Union into neighboring Finland they thought they could change their money in the banks. As soon as they did they were arrested and sent back. They did not know of Finland's relationship with the USSR, they did not know that USSR money was worthless in the rest of the world. If only they had known to keep going into Sweden they would have been safe. Now you with your western education did you know that?

Do not assume that everyone knows what you do, do not assume that these people know there is a queue to jump.
You are mixing up two groups of people here, economic migrants and political asylum seekers.
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Sorry to rain on your parade, but "these people" have mobile phones.
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Manchester (England England)
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Sorry to rain on your parade, but "these people" have mobile phones.
What the hell has that got to do with anything?
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Sorry to rain on your parade, but "these people" have mobile phones.

Clearly they aren't fleeing oppression then, because everyone knows that if you are fleeing from a regime that wants to murder you and your family, you don't take a phone with you.
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And similarly if you have a mobile phone you are educated. Think of all those years I wasted at University teaching student Physics when all I had to do was give them a mobile phone and they would have known it all.
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