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Author Topic: US shutdown - safe mode  (Read 4785 times)
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So, just because you exist then that places an interminable obligation on me to make sure that you, and yours are provided for? No ,matter the circumstances? And I am obligated to see things just as you see them, because by me seeing things from a different perspective than you, my perspective is automatically wrong? And if you define your needs so much more richly than I define my needs then I am then obligated to provide for you to my own harm? And I am obligated to do thios because you, and some politician feel good by taking from me and giving to others? So you feel no need to support your family because you can use the power of the state to take from me to give to yours?

And yes, I have seen those with a welfare card buy food that I could not afford. My wife worked as the night manager of a grocery store and welfare cards bought steak and shrimp and other high priced goods. Every Month. When the cards got filled there was a run on those products in the store. The real kicker is this - When my kids were born my wages didn't automatically go up. But that means an increase in the benefits for those on welfare. But I suppose that makes perfect sense. Welfare in the USA runs from $12,000 in some states to in excess of $43,000 in others.  That's pretty good wages at the top end, and a real motivation to not seek a job... But I guess I should have to support them because I am so stupid that I try to hold a job and pay my own way...
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Maine
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So, just because you exist then that places an interminable obligation on me to make sure that you, and yours are provided for? No ,matter the circumstances? And I am obligated to see things just as you see them, because by me seeing things from a different perspective than you, my perspective is automatically wrong? And if you define your needs so much more richly than I define my needs then I am then obligated to provide for you to my own harm? And I am obligated to do thios because you, and some politician feel good by taking from me and giving to others? So you feel no need to support your family because you can use the power of the state to take from me to give to yours?

And yes, I have seen those with a welfare card buy food that I could not afford. My wife worked as the night manager of a grocery store and welfare cards bought steak and shrimp and other high priced goods. Every Month. When the cards got filled there was a run on those products in the store. The real kicker is this - When my kids were born my wages didn't automatically go up. But that means an increase in the benefits for those on welfare. But I suppose that makes perfect sense. Welfare in the USA runs from $12,000 in some states to in excess of $43,000 in others.  That's pretty good wages at the top end, and a real motivation to not seek a job... But I guess I should have to support them because I am so stupid that I try to hold a job and pay my own way...

If you have a problem with taxes, I suggest you leave the United States and find a nice anarchist state to live in. I hear the mountains of Afghanistan are nice this time of year.
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The problem is not with the taxes as much as it is how the taxes are used.  I have seen the same abuse by welfare recipients.  They buy their food with food stamps, which is now a debit card.  Then, they pull out some wadded up cash with which to buy their cigarettes.  If they can afford the cigarettes, they don't need my assistance to buy the food.
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Maine
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The problem is not with the taxes as much as it is how the taxes are used.  I have seen the same abuse by welfare recipients.  They buy their food with food stamps, which is now a debit card.  Then, they pull out some wadded up cash with which to buy their cigarettes.  If they can afford the cigarettes, they don't need my assistance to buy the food.

Except thats not how taxes work. If you have a problem with the government "taking from me to give to someone else", then you have a problem with taxes. I don't like welfare abuse either, but the problem is no where near as bad as the biased media wants you to think it is.
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Then, they pull out some wadded up cash with which to buy their cigarettes.  If they can afford the cigarettes, they don't need my assistance to buy the food.

if you didn't denounce them, then you are complicit.

When you buy something from a bar and you didn't take the recipit, then you get busted, YOU and the bar's manager are issued. Because you are complicit. Even if it is an unfair law, if you are under their domain you have to follow them

And if many people became complict, some doing bad(or right, all is relative) thing and all the other just "covering" them by not filling a report and not giving help to police(code of silence), because those thei are friend or didn't care or are afraid, then you have a sort of mafia.

YOU are and people like you are why those people can abuse law, YOU are one of the root of the problem you are complaininig.

and if these people get inpunished, possibilty are they will go on and on until someone get hurt seriusly.

just my 10 cents
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@Wizdum
The wadded up cash story didn't come from the media.  I worked in a grocery store while I was finishing my college degree.  I saw it happen numerous times.  It IS common, probably more than most people realize.
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Any system can be abused, it is the nature of people to try to abuse them. However it isn't just the poor or criminals who do it. For example in Australia right now a number of politicians have been caught claiming "expenses" to attend weddings of friends. Instead of being charged with fraud they are being allowed to repay their illegitimate expenses. It would be nice if the ordinary man in the street could simply repay things when they are caught stealing.

Then we get letters in the financial columns of the papers from people who have multiple investment properties and millions of dollars in assets, asking how to structure their affairs so they can still receive the old-age pension (what you would call "welfare"). These people don't need welfare, but if they can get it, that's more money for them.

Sure, we should stop fraud. But just because one family arrives in a boat, and another are nicely dressed and arrive in business class on a jet, doesn't mean you should assume that the family in the boat are less deserving of the presumption of innocence. People who arrive by air aren't subject to extensive background criminal checks, or health checks. And when some don't return home on their tourist visas no-one seems to care that much. But these are probably the real "economic refugees".
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@Wizdum
The wadded up cash story didn't come from the media.  I worked in a grocery store while I was finishing my college degree.  I saw it happen numerous times.  It IS common, probably more than most people realize.

So, what percentage of the US population would you say checked out at the grocery store where you worked?
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@Wizdum
I saw it happen numerous times.  It IS common, probably more than most people realize.

if you didn't denounce them, then you are complicit.[...]
YOU are one of the root of the problem you are complaininig.
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I partly agree with your statement.  While complaining and taking no other actions doesn't solve the problem, it doesn't actually make me complicit in the problem.

The root of the problem depends on what problem we're talking about.  My complaint was about the misuse of funds, not about the complaints.  My complaint does not cause the problem.  While it does nothing to solve the problem, it didn't create the problem.  It is only one of many results related to the initial problem.
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i'm not sayng your complain are the problem, but the lack of real action against these misuse.

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it doesn't actually make me complicit in the problem
why not? if you see someone mureding someone and you do nothing, are you a complicit? (in italy, yes you are, complicit beacuse you didn't denounce, AND "Duty to rescue")

if you get cought with passenger without safety bell, in italy the driver is fined if the passenger doesn't have a driver licence (because it can be unaware of the law) BUT if the passenger has a driver licence, then the passenger AND the driver are fined because the driver id complicit (as above, i'm talking about italy)
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All very nice to have these laws, and all very nice to have "mandatory reporting".

The problem on reporting is what the person whom you report might do to you in retaliation before and whilst the "due process" of the law churns along.

Traditionally, this problem is particularly a matter of concern in Italy.  smiley-grin
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at the question "why you do this?" from a reporter to Gaiovanni Falcone, one of the most famous, with Paolo Borsellino, magistrate who fought and died fighting the mafia, the response was
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Soltanto lo spirito di servizio
that literally is
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Only the spirit of service

also from Paolo Borsellino
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La lotta alla mafia, il primo problema da risolvere nella nostra terra bellissima e disgraziata, non doveva essere soltanto una distaccata opera di repressione, ma un movimento culturale e morale che coinvolgesse tutti e specialmente le giovani generazioni, le più adatte a sentire subito la bellezza del fresco profumo di libertà che fa rifiutare il puzzo del compromesso morale, dell'indifferenza, della contiguità e quindi della complicità.

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the figth versus the mafia, the first problem to solve in our country, shound be only a repression, but a cultural movement of everybody, especially the new geenration, the most adeguate to feel the beauty of the freedom and the orro of the moral compromise, indifference, contiguity and then complicity

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Traditionally, this problem is particularly a matter of concern in Italy.
well, they are afraid because they feel alone, and they are quite right, and because this less people talk and so on.. If someone speech, and then anoter and so on, the mafia can't kill them all. It is a recursive problem
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Reboot in Progress.....
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Reboot in Progress.....

Same set of buggy drivers.
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