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Topic: US shutdown - safe mode (Read 5 times) previous topic - next topic

lesto

in italy it works like this: for medical, just some, absolutly necessary, are give for free. A bit larger part is payd based of the income, and the large parte (the medical with doesn't need a prescription) are completly to pay.

Because free and almost free medical need prescription, it is relative easy to get the medic who make false prescription, and radiate him from the albo of the medic (that mean he cannot do its work anymore.. it is a great risk for him! but still someone try)

the problem remain with the hospital. Here how it work; every operation is valued a tot. So for the hospital, more operation means more money. So here the trick; based on the medic who work at the ospital, how much it is big and the machinery it has it is estimated its work.
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radman

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The American people didn't directly vote on the law.  The representatives did that.  We have a democratic republic  in the US, not a direct democracy.


The American people did vote for it. The Democrats had ObamaCare as a policy, people voted for the Democrats who then implemented their policy and it was passed into Law.

The concept of a "direct democracy" is pretty much the same as "anarchy" if it involves more than a few dozen people. Individuals don't have the time, knowledge, and experience to take meaningful votes on legislation. Instead, in a democratic republic, you elect representatives to whom you delegate the power to make decisions on your behalf. When they vote for something it is you that is voting.

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I wouldn't say it's crazy.  I would say that continually running up the debt with no plan in place to stem that debt is crazy.


Of course blocking was crazy because what it did was throw away probably hundreds of millions of dollars for nothing. What blocking did was say to other countries "If you lend me money I may not pay you back". The USA still needs to borrow but of course those other contries will now charge more because the USA has self injured itself by making itself a higher risk to lend to!

I agree running up debt is a bad idea but what you need to do is stop running up the debt not make threats not to pay back what you have already borrowed.


lesto


The concept of a "direct democracy" is pretty much the same as "anarchy" if it involves more than a few dozen people. Individuals don't have the time, knowledge, and experience to take meaningful votes on legislation. Instead, in a democratic republic, you elect representatives to whom you delegate the power to make decisions on your behalf. When they vote for something it is you that is voting.


but that way (democratic republic) many people that KNOW  and WANT make a meaningfull vote cannot do it.

also, who make the rule to choose what is a meaningfull vote or a meaning full person for that vote?but if you don't do so, your votation will biased by public ignorance and concern of the day.
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radman

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but that way (democratic republic) many people that KNOW  and WANT make a meaningfull vote cannot do it.


The population of the USA is about 310M. In that population the percentage of people that have detailed knowledge on any one topic will be vanishingly small. How many people have real indepth knowledge about genetics and stem cells, evolution, global warming, foreign policy, finance etc. etc.

If you think that the elected representatives do a bad job then don't forget its the adults in the 310M that put them there. Unless you can devise a better system Democratic Republic is the best around at the moment.


lesto

#64
Oct 23, 2013, 02:25 pm Last Edit: Oct 23, 2013, 02:26 pm by lesto Reason: 1
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How many people have real indepth knowledge about genetics and stem cells, evolution, global warming, foreign policy, finance etc. etc.


none. even the representant. So how about a mixed system?

instead of represant, who get a degree OR sussesfully pass a governative test, can propose and vote law, on the argument of test.
Obviusly, all the normal votation system remain alive, the represant will propose law that will be voted and choose with of the user-proposed law put on vote. But the vote is not done by a resticted rapresentat, but a large part of (istruited) population.

because someone can bias the test to get the vote-abilitation, we can say if you get a degree you automatically can vote on some argument based on your studies (it is hard to bias a gevernative test, what about bias ALL the univeristies test?).

Also some law will be free-for-all to vote, like big propose as obamacare, or when chancing some part of the constitution.


We can use internet for specialistic law votation, or as pre-votation before a real votation (if it pass). Also, people that has degree but are not involved in politics will just not activate/use their "account". You may say some people will "sell" their account. This is wrong, but happens in real life here in italy(but i think it is a common problem), and it is a difficult thing to keep on tolerable level.
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radman

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none. even the representant. So how about a mixed system?


The Representatives do of course reflect the biases of the people who voted for them and probably are not knowlegable on even a limited range of subjects. However they are being paid to do a job, they have time to concentrate on it and you just have to hope they do the best they can taking expert advice.

Your mixed system sounds like chaos.

The only reasonable and workable alternative I can see to Representative Democracy is Benign Dictatorship - of course absolute power corrupts absolutely.

retrolefty

"direct democracy"

Often defined as two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

Lefty

lesto


"Democratic Republic"
Often defined as two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Lefty


"Democratic Republic"
Often defined as two wolves and a lamb voting one of them as Rapresentant who choose what to have for dinner.
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flyboy

>>I agree running up debt is a bad idea but what you need to do is stop running up the debt not make threats not to pay back what you have already borrowed.<<

I agree with you.  The problem is that no reasonable plan came from this.  The threat and blocking had good intentions, but the fix or even a plan for the fix was only to kick the can down the road.  Just like the last time...and the time before that.

Coding Badly

Of course blocking was crazy because what it did was throw away probably hundreds of millions of dollars for nothing.


You are wrong by at least one order of magnitude.

SirNickity

The threat and blocking had good intentions, but the fix or even a plan for the fix was only to kick the can down the road.  Just like the last time...and the time before that.


Good intentions?  Doubt that.  It was a temper tantrum with no regard for consequences.  Adult babies left unsupervised.

Which brings us to the problem of representative democracy.  Not enough supervision.  That one's on us.  This time, it got big enough that the public noticed.  True, we (the public) don't vote on every issue, but if we're paying enough attention, we can make our opinion quite obvious to those representing us.  Naturally, there's a balance between keeping those who are responsible for your office happy, and those who pay you to ignore those constituents.

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