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Topic: The forbidden Arduino! (Read 3860 times) previous topic - next topic

funlw65

Hi guys!

Sebastien Lelong from Jallib team had and idea about how to parasite an Arduino board.

Look here (the idea presentation), here (Arduino pin mapping) and here (first trial).

What do you think (in a constructive way, of course)?  :P

Vasi

Tim Williams

Interesting hack, but I do have to wonder, why? If I wanted to use arduino shields with a PIC (not a bad idea BTW) why not simply build the PIC board from the ground up to use the pinout of the board rather than shoe-horn the processor onto a daughter board. You could shoot for commonality of parts to be sure but, if you have to design (a rather large) daugther board, why not forgo the mess of two boards and simply make one larger board. Now, if you used a very small footprint PIC so that it would essentially fit the DIP socket, you might be onto something.

Andrew

#2
Aug 24, 2010, 05:30 pm Last Edit: Aug 24, 2010, 05:30 pm by Andrew Reason: 1
I just had a quick read, and couldn't see why you'd want to do this (plug a PIC daughterboard into an Arduino in place of the ATmega). If you can make a PCB with a PIC on it, why not make a PIC-based PCB that's directly compatible with Arduino shields?

Andrew

EDIT What he said  :)

funlw65

We have such boards (Pinguino, FreeJALduino) but here can be many reasons of why to do this:

- you have already an Arduino and fitting an 18F25k22 is more easy this way, because soldering a FTDI chip can be impossible for many.
- you cross develop and want to quickly test between the two platforms.
- you have a bricked ATmega and also have PIC background.
- you are bored by your Arduino?
- you are designing a "pure" Arduino board based on 18F25K22 and want to test the concept...
- you don't want to make another complex board as is an Arduino clone...
- you want to enter inside PIC world without giving up on your Arduino board (psychologically, can be helpful).
- just for fun

Add your own reasons  :D

Vasi

Leon Heller

#4
Aug 24, 2010, 08:45 pm Last Edit: Aug 24, 2010, 08:48 pm by leon_heller Reason: 1
It's got a USB interface on the chip, and there are no availability problems?
Leon Heller
G1HSM

funlw65

"To prefer" is a way of discussion but ...
Personally, I like both processors. Right now I just learning PICs but not in an exclusive way (I have an ATmega32 which I bricked already - don't laugh - and I want to unbrick it using PIC18F2550 and JAL language).

"Benefit for PICs users"... well, as I said, we have our own Arduino boards and we can use Arduino shields and also our own.

Is a good way to combine both worlds of fans. AFAIK, Massimo Banzi is an "old" PIC and JAL programmer. In those early times, JAL was a good compiler but lacked many features of modern compilers. Not the case anymore.

There, at Jallib project, we have JAT (in develoment right now but already good results), some kind of JAL to C translator (in fact, is more than that) which permit to program in JAL and target many families of processors. AVR, ARM, etc...
As you can see, we (well, some of us) are multiplatform oriented.


And not the last, many beginners find PICs more accessible and start with PICs. Why not have this bridge between the worlds?

Vasi

funlw65

Regarding to PIC18F2550/4550 availability there are no problems. Is easy to find it on South America continent (I am from Europe) than any other ATmega. Though this is not an obstacle for fans if they find Arduino language to be easy and want to benefit from the huge community of Arduino programmers. How?

Using a Pinguino board (PIC18F2550/4550) with Pinguino IDE(Arduino language for PICs using the humble SDCC compiler). A Pinguino board is more easy and cheap to build by anyone. This is a great example of how to benefit from the both worlds. Right now, Pinguino board is successfully used in South America Universities as an Arduino teaching tool.

Vasi

Graynomad

#7
Aug 25, 2010, 01:48 am Last Edit: Aug 25, 2010, 01:53 am by graynomad Reason: 1
Hi Vasi,

Tried replying on your blog but had no luck.

Use "machined" headers, they have much smaller pins.

see http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=743

Rob
Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

funlw65

Thank you Rob. I don't know if Sebastien allowed comments yet...

Vasi

Sebastien Lelong

Hi guys,

I'm the guilty parasitologist :)

Thanks for your feedback here.

Rob, you should have been able to post a comment, that's weird. Thanks anyway for your suggestion, I have considered these but they may be too tall so Jaluino Cuckoo can fit between Arduino and shields. Mainly because plastic part can't be removed so I can adjust pin size. There are asymmetric ones: two male pins, one being shorter than the other, so I may be able to save some space plugging it in a way or another. (I'm not allowed to post links, it's hard to describe).

Cheers,
Seb

Graynomad

Quote
I'm not allowed to post links, it's hard to describe

You can now after first post.

Are there some headers that are long enough when soldered through from the top of your board rather than underneath in the normal manner? That way there's no overhead underneath the PCB and within reason it doesn't matter how high it is above.

BTW, love the cuckoo analogy, good to see some more creative prose in this technical field.  :)

Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

Sebastien Lelong

Quote
You can now after first post.

OK, then here it is: http://cgi.ebay.com/4x-Machined-Pin-Header-male-40-round-gold-machine-pins-/350383337931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_1826wt_913

Quote
Are there some headers that are long enough when soldered through from the top of your board rather than underneath in the normal manner?

Pin headers I orginally used are like that. And you can move the black plastic part to adjust the size if needed. In the link above, one side is longer, but I guess not enough to be soldered from the top.

Quote
BTW, love the cuckoo analogy, good to see some more creative prose in this technical field.

Thanks, if you want more analogies, there's also Styx shield, a layer between Atmega and Microchip worlds. Just a concept... http://justanotherlanguage.org/content/jaluino/shields/jaluino_styx


Cheers,
Seb

GordonEndersby


Regarding the room needed for your parasite board.
Why not just extend the Arduino header plugs the shields plug into.
A second set of female sockets plugged into the ones on the board will raise the shields another 8mm.
They are readily available and cheap from the usual Arduino suppliers.

Gordon

ill_switch

Gordon, at that point, you might as well build from scratch, because you've now basically recreated the whole Arduino board anyways, minus a few cheap components.

If the USB chip being SMT is scaring people, just spend $15 or whatever on a USB-BUB from Modern Device or an FTDI cable from anywhere. It's cheaper than hacking a $30 Duemilanove.

funlw65

Hi guys,

Here are photos from an workshop in Venezuela (South America) with Pinguino and Arduino language (Pinguino IDE).

It can be a "hungry for tech" market for ATMEL if can provide an USB chip 28/40 pin DIP  in enough quantities and cheap. Until then, there is PIC18F2550/4550 as the only solution to simulate an Arduino like chain development. And Jean-Pierre Mandon and his team are working hard to address all aspects of a complete Arduino language solution. And for people not accustomed with C/C++, here will always be JAL language.

Vasi

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