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Author Topic: whats with the attitude  (Read 11942 times)
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Peoria AZ
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Lets not forget that there are a lot of people here that are like myself that are not doing a class assignment but instead are learning on their own time as a hobby or as a future career, like myself.
What I read was what was written, that quote was taken straight out of the post verbatim. I wish I had a link to the thread because I can't find it now. its been a while.
I don;t come on here THAT often, maybe 2 times a week, because I have a full time job as an electrician. I still come here on those days and see 1 or 2 threads with some kind of snarky comment or some form of name calling. i've been on more often the last week because I've been off work. too much time on my hands. Otherwise, I usually just go about my day...
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Motivation comes in the form of knowing the wife is going to hurt me if I don't follow through with my projects after spending our entertainment budget on parts. smiley-lol

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I can partially affirm S7's concerns.  There is one person, who hangs out in only a few sections, who comes across as being quite rude to those who are honestly seeking valid help.  I do not believe this person intends to be offensive, rather I think he fancies himself as a "witty curmudgeon".  However, to those who do not know him, and even to some of us who do, his style simply comes across as rude and off-putting.  I will not name this person publicly, as (s)he appears to be well respected in this community, and public naming would only create a "wall of defensiveness".  However, if a moderator or someone in authority wishes, I will pass along the name privately.
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I don't think you connected the grounds, Dave.
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@microcat: You'll no doubt have noted your "witty curmudgeon"s karma count, and how often he stays with a problem when others, myself included, have got bored with a thread.
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Yeah, I knew I would regret making that post, but... Oh well, c'est la vie!
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I have never seen a post like this. Can you provide a link to substantiate this?

Not off hand no, I would have to dig through the forums I've been through the last year and a half to find them.
Well I did three Google search for arduino: followed by the three following lines all in inverted comers
the answer is right there in front of you
numb nuts
def, dumb and blind

The only match I found was your post.
A widening of the search showed that the term "numb nuts" has been used on the AVR Freakes forum to describe us:-
Quote
And, right, I brought to the Arduino Artsy Fartsy crowd, the old fashioned Fartsy Fartsy perspective. And, just to be fair, if you look at the level immediately below the 'For Dummies' top layer of Arduino, you'll see some very good programming. The guys who came up with this really know what they are doing with C, C++, and Java. IMHO it is nearly a miracle of software engineering to build something as numb-nuts-newbie friendly as they have, without also blocking the ability to go deep.


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But if one pops-up I will be sure to link to that thread or notify a mod. they do pop up often though so that shouldn't be hard.
So I think you might be misremembering. But if one does poop up please quote it here on this thread so we can all see it.
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Arduino rocks; but with my plugin it can fly rocking the world ;-)
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funny
I did the same search and found nothing.
The fact we search shows we take the "attitude alarm" seriously. Which I think is good.

My thinking about  "witty curmudgeon"
I had some real bad feeling about "witty curmudgeon" myself. There are however some remarks I'd like to make:
1) IMHO "witty curmudgeon" is not a moderator of this forum.
2) Even though  "witty curmudgeon" sometimes brings the message short "witty curmudgeon" is mostly right.
3) I have seem multiple occasions where moderators jumped in.
4) I have seen  "witty curmudgeon" continue and reach success where I would have given up.

Another thing that pop's up in my mind.
I've once been to a presentation of Jim Piante (great speaker and well respected project/program manager) about his experiences as a football coach for kids soccer compared to his experiences as project/program manager.
What he pointed out is that the soccer team is composed of people who voluntarily become member of the team.
As a coach you can not choose the team. The members of the team chose to become member and as such the team starts to exist.
The very same is true here on the forum.
So yes there are arrogant  experts/newbies/(non-)native English speakers ..... here on the forum.
And there is nothing the moderators can/should do about this.

I personally think that the moderators are doing a great job.
Best regards
Jantje
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I have no sympathy for "witty" curmudgeons.  Degrading sarcasm is not funny to anyone, even when some experienced old-timer thinks he's earned the right.  If you can't behave, just shut up.  Don't help, just go away.  I personally would rather fill that void or possibly leave some questions unanswered (heck, plenty of my questions have been...  I survived) than to insult newcomers and give them the impression that's how we roll over here.  There's plenty of that crap on the Internet, and this place is almost completely free of it.  That's the single greatest thing about this place IMO.

I don't mean to extend this to amusing curmudgeons, who are old crusty opinionated gurus that have a genuine sense of humor.  The difference is primarily the use of insults aimed at the poster.  That's my line in the sand.

Now, the vast majority of people here go to great lengths to help, even when the OP is a poor communicator, lazy, or is struggling through language or experience barriers.  And there's a LOT of traffic to get through, so that's no mean feat.  Every support(ish) forum struggles with the redundant questions vs. self-help aspect.  It's a tough balance, since the community often puts in a lot of time to provide resources, and the really green newbies may have no idea what to make of that material.  I've been in that position before, where you have no idea where to start, nor what to search for, so you give up and say "I'm sure this is 101, but how the heck do I ... ?"  I have no issue with being told "that's in this post / article / link, go read up and ask questions if that doesn't make sense."  I don't like being told "maybe I should Google it for you?" since I have most likely tried to find the answer myself every way I know how (I don't like waiting for answers that I could have found myself.)  That's not the case with everyone, I understand, but RTFM can still be stated politely.  If you find yourself unable to deal without getting abrasive, maybe it's time to take a break for a while.  No shame in that.
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+1 SirNickity. (original text Riva smiley-wink
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 04:53:29 am by robtillaart » Logged

Rob Tillaart

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I don't like being told "maybe I should Google it for you?" since I have most likely tried to find the answer myself every way I know how
What about when the poster says, "i have been googling this for three days and I can't find anything" then you google the thing he is asking about and the top hit is exactly what he wants?

That deserves the "maybe I should Google it for you?" link with the search terms put in:-
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+eat+an+elephant
and in no way is telling the poster that he is stupid.

And I deliberately say he because all of the far too few women that post here have much better communication skills.

But simply if you don't know something then you don't know it and if you ask you will get an answer. If you don't understand the answer then ask again about what you don't understand.
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I don't like being told "maybe I should Google it for you?" since I have most likely tried to find the answer myself every way I know how
What about when the poster says, "i have been googling this for three days and I can't find anything" then you google the thing he is asking about and the top hit is exactly what he wants?

Well, I have also been the subject of that unfortunate circumstance.  I once read a datasheet, found an abbreviated term I did not know, asked in a forum stocked full of self-proclaimed experts who snapped at the opportunity to publicly display their superiority, and got the expected response:  "Try Googling it."  To which I replied, "I did -- here are the top five results of my search..."  None of which sounded like they had anything to do with the subject matter.  The response to that was, "I got the answer on my first attempt by adding (another possibly obvious term that I hadn't thought to include)."  OK, if you know those two terms are related, it cuts through the false positives pretty quick.  Fair enough.  The problem is, I didn't know what context the abbreviation came from.  General mechanical term?  Industry specific?  A typo?

I offer this story only as a perspective.  Sometimes the answer is so blatantly obvious .... if you know it already.

This doesn't necessarily excuse the legions of questions that can be answered by typing "Arduino + (thing)" and clicking "I'm Feeling Lucky", just something to keep in mind.
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Earth, The Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, The Universe, 42, The 1st Reality, The Cosmos, Some other really big thing
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If you saw this thread, you might change your mind:
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=202109.msg1491851#msg1491851
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waterlubber
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Yes but note how no one actually gave any personal abuse like saying he was stupid or calling him numb nuts like the OP of this thread would have us believe.
It is clear from that thread and his other posts that he did not have the language skills to understand an answer.
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Based on the time of the start of this thread and OP's recent discussions, this is apparently an example of a moderator behaving badly. smiley-roll
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When the post is formatted it should check for "void ()" and if it's not Inside the code tag, refuse to post and instead link them to the rules about posting...

Should be straightforward enough?..

Then the mods can deal with troublemakers
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Thinking about it, why not analyze the entire post and check for abusive language and red flag it.....

As for Coding Badly, he like Steve are just grumpy seen it all been there got the tshirt and help more grudgingly than to be genuine/helpfull....

I'm nice to everyone until they give me reason not to be, plenty here refuse to be nice to people unless they posses power/skill ehatever it may be, that they themselves do not possess. .. I treat all as equal and I'll gladly challenge anyones behaviour I have no interest in crawling or becoming a moderator no interest at all, I will help anyone I can and when people like mr grumpy attacks you for not knowing something or getting it wrong... ok fine I'm sorry for putting effort into understanding and trying to help...

Great someone who knows does! Now I know too.... shame about the verbal abuse given for trying to help, pointing it out is fine but why am I being chastised for it?.. ego trip?
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