Pages: [1]   Go Down
Author Topic: Harsh words  (Read 1890 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Grand Blanc, MI, USA
Online Online
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 95
Posts: 4089
CODE is a mass noun and should not be used in the plural or with an indefinite article.
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

From another thread,

Indeed. They are both overly ambitious projects with very vague descriptions what they will do. If you have not coded say 5,000 to 10,000 lines of code in the past, not cut and paste, and mainly in C/C++, you will never complete it. Start with something small. Arduino is not legos, you can't just plug everything together and expect them to "work".

That may sound harsh at first, but of course it is exactly the opposite, attempting to redirect the energy towards a smaller but achievable goal. Spot on. Much better to have a small success than a gigantic failure (accompanied by potentially large hardware costs).

The "overly ambitious project" is a recurring theme that I continually shake my head at. Often It seems difficult to comment in such a way that the poster will not be discouraged, so usually I will just walk away.

With that in mind, I propose that the community develop a list, perhaps entitled, "The Top Ten Ways to Make Absolutely Sure Your Arduino Project Fails". This would be more or less in the spirit of "How to use this forum". The overall aim is to help the newcomer achieve early success, avoid pitfalls, and build a good foundation for additional and more complex projects.

In his one post, @liudr has given us material for several items on the list, and more importantly, has suggested a possible framework: Point out not only the shortcoming, but the approach to overcome it ("If you have not coded say 5,000 to 10,000 lines of code...").

If this idea generates a good amount of input, I would also like to see a discussion regarding how to triage and prioritize potential items on the list.

Logged

MCP79411/12 RTC ... "One Million Ohms" ATtiny kit ... available at http://www.tindie.com/stores/JChristensen/

North Queensland, Australia
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 74
Posts: 2210
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Good for new users, I agree.

Here's one quick way to fail with Arduino:
Quote
Learn how to use C++ properly, in a universally accepted way, conforming to standards.

Hell you'll get people who've written hundreds of thousands of lines of code that get stumped at the rubbish the IDE does to their sketch.

Here's one for the 'how to use the forum' thread too:
Quote
Use an outdated version of Arduino so many reference articles will actually compile.

I think we need a list for the site admins: "How to make the website worse"
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 11:35:56 pm by pYro_65 » Logged


UK
Offline Offline
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 135
Posts: 7626
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

The real problem is that people don't read any of the advice that's already available and that experience strongly suggests that they won't read any new / additional advice either.

The second problem is that the people who develop this forum don't read this section.

There was a very interesting thread recently about the most effective way to get help from the forum - as a complement to the existing stickies (unfortunately I can't find it now) but nothing came of it.

In the vain hope that somebody with influence might notice ...

There is a large blue patch at the top of the forum pages - how about using it to display a "tip of the day" which could be a selection from the existing stickies and could include stuff like Jack Christensen is suggesting. There is a better chance that such tips would be read.

...R
Logged

Grand Blanc, MI, USA
Online Online
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 95
Posts: 4089
CODE is a mass noun and should not be used in the plural or with an indefinite article.
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

The real problem is that people don't read any of the advice that's already available and that experience strongly suggests that they won't read any new / additional advice either.

That can definitely be a problem.

Quote
There is a large blue patch at the top of the forum pages - how about using it to display a "tip of the day" which could be a selection from the existing stickies and could include stuff like Jack Christensen is suggesting. There is a better chance that such tips would be read.

"Tip of the day" ... great idea!
Logged

MCP79411/12 RTC ... "One Million Ohms" ATtiny kit ... available at http://www.tindie.com/stores/JChristensen/

Belgium
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 68
Posts: 1923
Arduino rocks; but with my plugin it can fly rocking the world ;-)
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

The real problem is that people don't read any of the advice that's already available and that experience strongly suggests that they won't read any new / additional advice either.
reminds me of this quote of Einstein
Quote
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
by the way I think it is more correct to state
Quote
The real problem is that some people don't read any of the advice that's already available and that experience strongly suggests that these people won't read any new / additional advice either.

2 additions to the list:
1) Read, understand and practise blink without delay
2) Even after you understood blink without delay and you bring together 2 sketches using libraries: don't be surprised it doesn't work. (root cause: libraries use resources; if the 2 libraries use the same resource they are incompatible)

Best regards
Jantje
Logged

Do not PM me a question unless you are prepared to pay for consultancy.
Nederlandse sectie - http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/board,77.0.html -

Left Coast, CA (USA)
Offline Offline
Brattain Member
*****
Karma: 361
Posts: 17301
Measurement changes behavior
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Rule 1, own and know how to use a multimeter before starting the project.

Logged

Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 30
Posts: 2488
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Well people should learn to walk before they run.
Logged

Manchester (England England)
Offline Offline
Brattain Member
*****
Karma: 633
Posts: 34513
Solder is electric glue
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

One big problem lately is non native English speakers who don't know enough to understand the replies.
Have you noticed that the ones who apologist for there lack of English skills are often the best.   
Logged

Belgium
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 68
Posts: 1923
Arduino rocks; but with my plugin it can fly rocking the world ;-)
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Have you noticed that the ones who apologist for there lack of English skills are often the best.   
Are you sure this is correct English?
But I agree.
Best regards
Jantje
Logged

Do not PM me a question unless you are prepared to pay for consultancy.
Nederlandse sectie - http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/board,77.0.html -

Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 30
Posts: 2488
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Have you noticed that the ones who apologist for there lack of English skills are often the best.   
Are you sure this is correct English?
But I agree.
Best regards
Jantje

"Apologize"   "their"

I end up with manglish because of a touch screen!
Logged

Copenhagen, Denmark
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 33
Posts: 1225
Have you testrun your INO file today?
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Irony/Sarcasm is good for entertainment, rarely for education.

Some years ago, I needed a Unix introduction - I found a book to "100 things I hate about Unix" (or similar) and it contained the pitfalls. I thought that would be a good way not to make those mistakes. Unfortunatly it also left me with a negative attitude to *ix'es, which I am finally (slowly) getting over.

Likwise (humorously) explaining what not to do to an Arduino project will confuse and discourgage newbies. By all means include some examples why & how the projects fails when one ignores the postive good advice otherwise given.

But we can (over in Bar Sports) do a list for the enjoyment of "those who know" (... or think they know  smiley-wink )
Logged

Grand Blanc, MI, USA
Online Online
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 95
Posts: 4089
CODE is a mass noun and should not be used in the plural or with an indefinite article.
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Irony/Sarcasm is good for entertainment, rarely for education.
...
Likewise (humorously) explaining what not to do to an Arduino project will confuse and discourgage newbies.

Points taken. The response has been underwhelming so we'll just let this dog lie  smiley-wink
Logged

MCP79411/12 RTC ... "One Million Ohms" ATtiny kit ... available at http://www.tindie.com/stores/JChristensen/

Pages: [1]   Go Up
Jump to: