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Topic: diecimila headers are not on 2.54mm grid (Read 4538 times) previous topic - next topic

Triffid Hunter

Arduino Diecimila port B and D headers (digital I/Os) are not on the standard 2.54mm grid, so shields can't be made with prototype board and similar.

Also, see the AVR-USB project for a way to hook up the ft232r so it can bootstrap the atmega in bit-bang mode which would be awesome for arduino.. I'd love to swap the crystal on mine for a 20MHz, but I don't think the ft232r supports (19200*20/16)=24Kbaud, and don't have anything else to program it with.

wayoda

Hi,
Quote
Arduino Diecimila port B and D headers (digital I/Os) are not on the standard 2.54mm grid, so shields can't be made with prototype board and similar.

Yes and not even the people from the Freeduino-project http://www.freeduino.org/freeduino_open_designs.html where man enough to change that! A joke guys, a joke!

Half seriously now : Bad isn't it! Sometimes I hate all that legacy stuff (that seems to be the reason here) and wish for a revolution!

Eberhard


follower

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so shields can't be made with prototype board and similar.

Actually, it is possible if you get out a pair of pliers... :-) I've made one full-size shield with protoboard by bending the second set of headers slightly--in a sort of shape like this:

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It's not the best thing in the world, but a usable work-around.

--Phil.

follower

Quote
Half seriously now : Bad isn't it! Sometimes I hate all that legacy stuff (that seems to be the reason here) and wish for a revolution!

Yeah, it sucks especially considering there's probably going to be more boards sold in the future than exist now. But I don't expect a change any time soon--I suspect the desire of a handful of protoboard shield makers isn't enough to tip the balance.

--Phil.

mellis

Of course, you can always download the EAGLE files for the Arduino Diecimila and make your own boards with the proper spacing.

spiffed

I would suggest, if you're looking for protoboard/breadboard compatibility, something like the BareBones, Boarduino, or (my soon to be released) iDuino.
iDuino - MaxSerial - [url=http://spi

mellis


admin

to me, as an Italian, all these names ending in "duino" drive me up the wall...

my poor language :)


nkcelectronics

Quote
Arduino Diecimila port B and D headers (digital I/Os) are not on the standard 2.54mm grid, so shields can't be made with prototype board and similar.

Also, see the AVR-USB project for a way to hook up the ft232r so it can bootstrap the atmega in bit-bang mode which would be awesome for arduino.. I'd love to swap the crystal on mine for a 20MHz, but I don't think the ft232r supports (19200*20/16)=24Kbaud, and don't have anything else to program it with.

Have you heard of "de-facto standards"?  Well, the Arduino pin spacing is one of them.  Good or Bad, it is the "Arduino" standard.  When I designed the "Arduino runtime", the main reason was because I didn't like the odd spacing... but not having shield physical compatibility is a bigger limitation than being able to use "standard" 2.54mm spaced protoboards.  Sooner or later, you will need to plug a shield...  

wayoda

Hi in order to release the pressure ...
Quote
to me, as an Italian, all these names ending in "duino" drive me up the wall...

my poor language :)


Maybe new Boards/Ideas could use the slovenian or german translation of "Duino" :
Quote

Duino
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Duino (Devin in Slovenian, Tybein in German) is a town in the coastal part of the municipality (comune) of Duino-Aurisina, part of the region of Friuli-Venezia Giulia in the province of Trieste, north-eastern Italy.


On the other hand, the Arduino suffers from the same disease that caught Apple:
iEverything
You must have created a very appealing trademark!

Eberhard


John_Ryan

It's simpler to use "duino" rather than a long winded description to explain compatibility with Arduino's or it's IDE, and I would have thought it quite flattering actually.





mem

#12
May 28, 2008, 03:54 pm Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 03:57 pm by mem Reason: 1
Quote
try doing it this way:-

http://www.thebox.myzen.co.uk/Hardware/Arduino_Sheld.html :o


Mike, good job on the article. Yr link didn't work, try this:
http://www.thebox.myzen.co.uk/Hardware/Arduino_Sheld.html


(the url tag adds another http:// in front of the link)

tigrezno

woot, i was asking myself today for the same issue, why it doesn't follow the standard PCB spacing, grrrrr, i feel sold to sparkfun protoshields....

paulb

#14
Jun 13, 2008, 08:36 pm Last Edit: Jun 13, 2008, 08:37 pm by paulb Reason: 1
The Arduino is somewhere around 2.5 to 3 years old. It might last anther 5 to 10 in a usable form. Now would be the time to rationalize the form factor before even more shields get created.

This is the exactly the same issue as the (lame-brained) Apple one-button mouse, or maybe even worse, the disk-eject menu item that was in the OS for 10 years which all Mac users knew to avoid because of the disk swap nightmare.

Apple never bothered to fix the menu item and it was just a useless pimple on the Interface, or worse if a newbie used it and got caught.

Bad design decisions get embedded in things and then everyone must live with them (and laugh / swear at them) for years to come, because the company cannot bite bullet and admit they made a mistake. Apple was so embarrassed about the one-button mouse that they had to preserve the one-button design look even while (finally - 17 years later) going to a two button design concealed under the one-button look. Everyone's just trying to forget the hideously unergonomic (and beautiful) round mouse.

Conspiracy theorists have suggested that Arduino team deliberately created the off-grid design to make their hardware incompatible. Does an official explanation from the team exist of where this odd quirk came from?

One example of the awkwardness that this [disfunctional] standard causes is an NKC board with both sets of headers to accommodate the (sensible, standard grid layout) and the Arduino system. I'm sure the design will work well enough, but it's  ugly and just shouldn't be necessary if the Arduino design was a rational layout.

But in the mean time, just think of the off-grid quirk as the Arduino Team's one button mouse and maybe start looking around (and developing) other standards (such as the two or button mouse wth scroll wheel that seems like it's become the [sensible] defacto standard).

One sensible thing to do would be for the people developing Freeduino hardware to get together and discuss / standardize some new form factors, if enough units of a new form factor are producted, that work in a sensible way, the Arduino team will eventually put out a two button mouse, but maybe it will take 17 years.

Maybe it could even start a discussion about collaborative design of open-source hardware.




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