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Topic: Does Arduino have a future? (Read 56977 times) previous topic - next topic

ArthurD

#60
Oct 01, 2015, 09:26 am Last Edit: Oct 01, 2015, 09:27 am by ArthurD
so what would you suggest?

keep it as it is, accepting frustrated users because of non- or malfunctional hardware, not able to finish their project (and already perhaps having invested much time and much money for that purpose)

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or... what?

westfw

Quote
or... what?
Well, you know, if you bought your hardware from Arduino.cc, Arduino.org, Sparkfun, Adafruit, or even Seeed, you'd have a lot more recourse and hope of SW improvement than this whole "I bought a random piece of HW with no real documentation from a random China/eBay/AliExpress vendor, and I'm very frustrated that the Adafruit libraries don't seem to work with it" mentality.  Yes, that would mean that the hardware would be more expensive.  Yes, that would mean fewer choices.  Welcome to the real world.

The expectation that you can purchase any hardware from anywhere and find free software that will make it work is fundamentally flawed.

The expectation that some college kid who wrote a driver for some college class will "support" that driver for the next 10 years is flawed (as is the expectation that 4-y old drivers will still work with new hardware and IDE.)

Good bug reports would help too.  "I got an error something like ... and a lot more" is not helpful.  There are WAY too many of these in these forums.   "this SW is crappy.  It doesn't work", and little to no followup.  Oh well: if you won't spend money, and you won't spend time, and you won't communicate, then you can't expect much improvement.



liuzengqiang

As I said, arduino llc is a very small group of developers, and they are trying to survive in this pond where other groups are taking large shares of the market and profit over their contributions, which you call imperfect. They are trying their best to develop new hardware so they don't lose out in the near future. Yes, they should get their existing libraries better, but no they are not doing it right now. They are also fighting legal battle too, in case you didn't know. All at the same time they try to spread the word or arduino to more places.

If you have a problem with the current state of matter of arduino, find something you can do to help (like reporting specific bugs, informing others how to fight the bugs etc.) or just leave it and move on.
Serial LCD keypad panel,phi_prompt user interface library,SDI-12 USB Adapter

ArthurD

#63
Oct 09, 2015, 10:35 am Last Edit: Oct 09, 2015, 03:05 pm by ArthurD
IMO the only way would be:
make the brand and/or trade mark  "Arduino"  copyright-protected for hardware and software.
just 100% original Arduino-manufactured boards and hardware extensions, but excellent working libs and compatibility for ALL (!) boards (3.3 + 5V, AVR+ARM)
licence Arduino to 3rd party companies only if the company and the related item have been certified by the Arduino company.
2 years of guarantee /warranty for all products showing the Arduino trade mark on hardware and software drivers + IDE-update-safe, or 100% money refund.

lmkovi

A few ideas for simple enhancements to the IDE that might play catch-up with what's out there these days. Most are low hanging fruits, to the exception of the debugger that is more involved.


https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/4084
Imagination is more important than knowledge
Einstein

technix

If we are willing to switch compilers, LLVM for AVR is taking shape and it is a direct replacement for avr-gcc. And given the modular nature of LLVM and clang the compiler frontend is available as a library, and AST of the code is available. So a lot of proposed features like proper code sensing can be done using clang. Clang also have really nice debug messages and a static analyser that can help a lot of beginners to catch bugs. If you have a Mac you can download and try write some C++ with Xcode, as that is a full-fledge IDE that is built around clang.

LLVM for AVR still does not produce correct object code but since all we need here is its C++ frontend and AST there should be no problem.

kowalski

IMO the only way would be:
make the brand and/or trade mark  "Arduino"  copyright-protected for hardware and software.
just 100% original Arduino-manufactured boards and hardware extensions, but excellent working libs and compatibility for ALL (!) boards (3.3 + 5V, AVR+ARM)
licence Arduino to 3rd party companies only if the company and the related item have been certified by the Arduino company.
2 years of guarantee /warranty for all products showing the Arduino trade mark on hardware and software drivers + IDE-update-safe, or 100% money refund.
@ArthurD
Now why did/does this not happen?

I believe it has to do with how the "product" has been developed. The software will never be industry strength (high quality) due to how it is handled by the "company". It is a lot of modified application notes and student projects.

The sharing on for instance this forum is maybe the bright side of the story.

Cheers!

liuzengqiang

Industrial strength: these project-cranking students now graduated into entry jobs and are paid to do the similar quality of work?! If it is from industry, I expect some free and paid support. The strength is only good if they keep working on it. Also there is little chance to inspect under the hood or modify it. Arduino does have good support from the forum and is open source. People can learn from it while using it in productive activities. If arduino is not good for you, you're probably using arduino outside its intended usage.
Serial LCD keypad panel,phi_prompt user interface library,SDI-12 USB Adapter

amundsen

I begun with a Uno board then quickly went to Pro Mini and Micro boards because of the size demanded by my projects.

However, I then jumped to Teensy because of the better resolution of ADC (12 bits instead of 10) while keeping a small size *and* the compatibility with the IDE.

Currently I don't understand why there is such a craze about boards running an OS rather than a simple bootloader. IMHO it only makes things more complicated when you only want to connect sensors, pre-crunch the data and transmit them to a computer. And yes Raspberry Pi and Beaglebone Black are there for the people who want such boards. I'd be more interested to have Arduino boards with dedicated floating-point units, a big lack currently. Also, more powerful electronics (analog amplifiers) would be nice. I can see nice boards out there (TI Sitara, ST Nucleo, mikroelektronika stuff...) but the IDE's ease of use and the size of the community really pulls me back to Arduino-branded boards or other ones directly compatible with the IDE.

Just my two cents.

technix

I begun with a Uno board then quickly went to Pro Mini and Micro boards because of the size demanded by my projects.

However, I then jumped to Teensy because of the better resolution of ADC (12 bits instead of 10) while keeping a small size *and* the compatibility with the IDE.

Currently I don't understand why there is such a craze about boards running an OS rather than a simple bootloader. IMHO it only makes things more complicated when you only want to connect sensors, pre-crunch the data and transmit them to a computer. And yes Raspberry Pi and Beaglebone Black are there for the people who want such boards. I'd be more interested to have Arduino boards with dedicated floating-point units, a big lack currently. Also, more powerful electronics (analog amplifiers) would be nice. I can see nice boards out there (TI Sitara, ST Nucleo, mikroelektronika stuff...) but the IDE's ease of use and the size of the community really pulls me back to Arduino-branded boards or other ones directly compatible with the IDE.

Just my two cents.
The only MPU that have an FPU so far as I know is ARM Cortex-M4F, which can be pretty expensive.

If you want a better analog frontend, maybe you can check out the MCP3911, a pretty fully functional all-in-one ADC and PGA, and couple it with ADR03B voltage reference.

kowalski

Industrial strength: these project-cranking students now graduated into entry jobs and are paid to do the similar quality of work?!
There is lots to be said about what "Industry strength C++" is all about. This is not something you can learn from the Arduino source code or libraries. Recommended reading: Industrial Strength C++: Rules and Recommendations

I think we need to take some code examples from the Arduino core or libraries to get to the bottom of this. The Arduino core lacks a software architecture (and architect). There is no style guide or even device driver programmers interface. It is barely OOP and a mixed up usage of C++ (software metrics). There is no core support classes for scaling to medium size projects such as support for concurrency, events, etc.

Cheers!

PS: Please compare Cosa and Arduino core. The difference is obvious. DS.

pjrc

I'd be more interested to have Arduino boards with dedicated floating-point units, a big lack currently.
I can tell you a more powerful Teensy is coming in early 2016, with 180 MHz CPU that includes the FPU.  It'll retail for under $30.

bricoleau


liuzengqiang

And what about THIS ?
:smiley-cry:
Crazy! I wanna cry. Thanks for bearing this great news!
Serial LCD keypad panel,phi_prompt user interface library,SDI-12 USB Adapter

dmjlambert

That's interesting, I'll have to make a trip over to Micro Center and get some of those to play with.  I probably would have named it the "Pi Five."

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