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Topic: flow charts (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

kerimil

Sep 13, 2010, 06:05 pm Last Edit: Sep 13, 2010, 08:26 pm by kerimil Reason: 1
hey, I am new to arduino - in fact I don't have it yet, but I am going to buy it soon

anyway.. here is the idea:
Yenka (http://www.yenka.com/) is a free (for home use) programme for learning science, technology etc.
You can build and simulate quite a lot of different circuits with it and even design PCBs with custom cases, etc.

What is better about it is that you can use it to programme PIC chips too ->
have a look at it -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cGOpHqJsjc

Programming is completelly based on flowcharts.
I've been using it for a while and I've got to tell you that it is damn easy...

Now comes the coolest part - you can first design a whole circuit with a PICAXE chip, design a PCB (and get a sort of CAD file of it), design a case for it and finally programme the microcontroller and upload the code to the chip directly from your computer via COM port.

Well, I know that I am a noob but the moment I realized how much this simplifies stuff I though 'wow it would be so cool if arduino had something like that'

westfw

Hmm.  There was something like that at Make Faire last spring...  http://www.modk.it/ ?

kerimil

yeah, it's similar.
It seems that yenka has simpler, and thus easier-to-use flowchart programming interface.
thx for finding it

Groove

#3
Sep 14, 2010, 03:59 pm Last Edit: Sep 14, 2010, 04:00 pm by GrooveFlotilla Reason: 1
I know of very few programmers who still flow-chart (except in PowerPoint slides for managers and other non-technical types)- most sketch code in either C or pseudocode.
Far more important these days is showing object relationships, using UML or similar notations.
Per Arduino ad Astra

kerimil

Quote
I know of very few programmers who still flow-chart
You're aware that it turns the flowchart directly into code, right ? and that 99% of arduino users are not professional programmes ?

I've said that I am a noob but if some PCAs come with this kind of programming interface then it means that it does make some sense

cr0sh

Quote
I know of very few programmers who still flow-chart (except in PowerPoint slides for managers and other non-technical types)- most sketch code in either C or pseudocode.
Far more important these days is showing object relationships, using UML or similar notations.


I personally think they are complementary to each other; you'd be surprised at how many bugs (and hidden "gotchas") you can find when first flowcharting a process, before implementing it in any form of code (pseudo or otherwise). Object diagrams, UML, and the like are useful (and necessary for complex systems), but they don't tell the whole story. The only place with flowcharting become difficult (but there are ways that have evolved from Six Sigma) is in documenting parallel flows; it becomes complicated, but doable.

Quote
You're aware that it turns the flowchart directly into code, right ? and that 99% of arduino users are not professional programmes ?


Unfortunately, some might become professional programmers, and might carry over bad habits (or have trouble understanding existing paradigms) should they try to make the transition towards professional programming. See BASIC and GOTO, for example...

Quote
I've said that I am a noob but if some PCAs come with this kind of programming interface then it means that it does make some sense


This is where your making a mistake; you claim to be a n00b, while postulating on topics that you haven't got the experience to postulate on. Simply because it seems to be something that is used all over the place, doesn't make it the correct solution, or even the best solution. Inertia is a powerful thing; look at politics...

;D
I will not respond to Arduino help PM's from random forum users; if you have such a question, start a new topic thread.

kerimil

Well, I wonder if the responses I got represent the opinion of the community as a whole or whether I got bashed by hardcore programmers and old timers... joke  ::)

I might be a noob when it comes to arduino, but I see that the vast majority of projects are really simple.
Why does it matter that much to you if you can still use the code ? I don't know but I am waiting for that 'modkit' thing

Also I wouldn't say that arduino is all about programming, in fact it seems to be closer to mechatronics, process control and such. What I like about yenka is that it combines both flowcharts and visual representation of the state of the circuit, inputs and outputs. Somehow I like the fact I can get the bigger picture of the system as a whole. Even if you don't like flowcharts, you can't say that it isn't a useful feature

westfw

there are a lot of tools for clarifying your thinking process while trying to write software.  Flowcharts are one of them.  If it helps, great!

Personally, I don't find a flowchart particularly easier to read than the average high level language program, perhaps because most of the problems I've faced don't fall apart into nice decision trees.  (hmm.  The yenka web pages are rather vague on just what sort of flow chart elements are supported.)

I think flowchart started to be less useful when it became clear that defining good data structures was as important as defining code flow (that is, when fortran and basic became 'BAD' languages.)   Hmm.  Data structures.  Not something that gets mentioned much in arduinoland, though a fair amount of thought goes there in defining the library classes and such.

westfw

BTW, have you actually USED "yenka", or are you going by the flashy website?  If I think back over some of the FAQs I see here, I don't know that many of them would have been any easier with a flowchart-like programming language...

kerimil

#9
Sep 15, 2010, 10:22 am Last Edit: Sep 15, 2010, 01:05 pm by kerimil Reason: 1
There are 28 flowcharts elements that you can use (subroutines, interupts, output pulse, etc.).
I could post a print screen showing all the possible flowchart elements, but maybe it would be better if you download yenka and see for yourself.

EDIT
You can see some of them here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cGOpHqJsjc&feature=player_embedded

This programme is fun. I downloaded it a week ago but so far I spent quite a lot of time playing with it. I am definitely going to introduce my daughter to it once she is old enough to use it. Yenka is not only about PICs and electronics - seriously check it out

AWOL

I'm not sure several screens of flowchart is easier to debug than a couple of handfuls of code.
Flowcharts are a useful "crutch" to begin with, but once you get past a few subroutines, they're a real PITA.
"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.

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