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Author Topic: Arduinos IN SPAAAAACEEE!  (Read 4240 times)
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I just about have the skills to do it now, if not the funding. If money is the only thing holding me back I consider that a minor point...
Well, post up your details on how you are going to impliment your project (no funding required). Should be interesting.
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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.   smiley-cool

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The Mars rovers were only designed to work for 60 days - that's how harsh the environment is. Thanks though too a really robust set of Built In Tests, and some excellent design descisions and operations procedures, they are still going (albeit on reduced functionality).
I dunno, I think they're stretching the meaning of "still working" when the mobile robot can't move anymore...

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Well, post up your details on how you are going to impliment your project (no funding required). Should be interesting.
I never said funding wasn't required, I just consider it a minor point. Essential, perhaps, but minor in comparison to the other problems. If a lack of funding is my only issue I'd say I was in a great position.

Funds can come from anywhere (theft, blackmail, drug sales, prostitution, legitimate sources, etc.). Radiation-proof micro-controllers, hundreds of tons of rocket fuel, and permission to launch are much harder to come by. I figure, if I can get a plan in place, and start working I should be able to get donations and sponsors. (maybe build the outer shell from Coke cans to get them to pay for some of the fuel)

Also, planning it this way means that I start with the idea that everything must be the absolute cheapest (used coke cans) and then build the budget around that as opposed to starting with a budget and finding the best things you can buy within the budget.
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My dinky little webcam that I got for $12 has far better picture quality than the expensive cameras they brought with them during Apollo
Webcam vs. Hasselblad?
No, I don't think so.
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Yup, good idea, I should just give up without even attempting to identify all the problems.

I'm amazed at how, even in a forum based on exploration such as this one people still have this much negative reaction.

Now I want to do it even more just to prove you wrong.

You're free to try of course, but you won't succeed anymore than someone saying they want to build a 10TeV particle accelerator out of bicycle clips. Just saying you want to try something outlandish shouldn't be considered a great attitude, it's simply a waste of your efforts (but I guess they are yours to waste) . For projects that perhaps 'push the boundaries' a little this attitude is laudable, like making the arduino output PAL or NTSC, stretching it a little, or rewriting all the libraries so you can overclock the chip with a different crystal.

But should any of us reply with positive comments when someone says 'I want to move the Earth to a different orbit using an arduino and 4 AA batteries!'? Some things are just not possible, no matter how good your motivation or intentions are. This shouldn't be seen as a negative reaction, merely a realistic one.

I'd like to build a camera to take pictures of our galaxy from the outside, but this isn't going to happen. There are very basic laws of physics preventing it. In a similar way, you're not going to build a multi-stage rocket of Saturn V type propertions out of coke cans. Yes, the limitations are mainly technical and financial but they are limits you cant avoid. You seem blinded by it so much that perhaps I was too forceful in pointing these things out but you seem determined to try it, so try it. You'll unfortunately waste your time and fail at getting a lander anywhere near orbit let alone the moon. Isn't this obvious?

On the positive side, you'll learn a hell of a lot about electronics, rocketry and physics while you're at it, and a few years from now you might come up with a realistic project (and realise how daft this one was).
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I'm not suggesting that the arduino would be the main component of the robot, however any component on it would be susceptible to radiation.

It may not be possible, and probably isn't yet, but you can't know until you ask the questions and get reliable answers. Even if all I have at the end is a list of things that I can't do then that's a step forward. When technology improves or I figure out how to solve the problems I can cross them off the list. Once everything on the list is crossed off I can do it.

You seem to think that this is something I'm planning for next weekend or something. This is the information collection stage, If I end up doing it at all it probably wouldn't be for another 10 years at least.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 07:01:35 am by StarkRG » Logged

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10 years won't make any difference, but go ahead. As said above, it will be interesting to see a dev plan for it.
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You're free to try of course, but you won't succeed anymore than someone saying they want to build a 10TeV particle accelerator out of bicycle clips. Just saying you want to try something outlandish shouldn't be considered a great attitude, it's simply a waste of your efforts (but I guess they are yours to waste) . For projects that perhaps 'push the boundaries' a little this attitude is laudable, like making the arduino output PAL or NTSC, stretching it a little, or rewriting all the libraries so you can overclock the chip with a different crystal.

But should any of us reply with positive comments when someone says 'I want to move the Earth to a different orbit using an arduino and 4 AA batteries!'? Some things are just not possible, no matter how good your motivation or intentions are. This shouldn't be seen as a negative reaction, merely a realistic one.

I'd like to build a camera to take pictures of our galaxy from the outside, but this isn't going to happen. There are very basic laws of physics preventing it. In a similar way, you're not going to build a multi-stage rocket of Saturn V type propertions out of coke cans. Yes, the limitations are mainly technical and financial but they are limits you cant avoid. You seem blinded by it so much that perhaps I was too forceful in pointing these things out but you seem determined to try it, so try it. You'll unfortunately waste your time and fail at getting a lander anywhere near orbit let alone the moon. Isn't this obvious?

On the positive side, you'll learn a hell of a lot about electronics, rocketry and physics while you're at it, and a few years from now you might come up with a realistic project (and realise how daft this one was).

I was thinking the same thing.  My point of view isn't trying to discourage you, but really just trying to be realistic that it's just not feasible.  It could still be quite fun to try, though!
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Well there is a simple test that you can perform on yourself - you can send Arduino (say anything that can do the job) to a neighboring country and make it send pictures back to you and do it for some time. Then multiply the time needed for this by some constant, and the cost incurred by some other constant, and you'll get some very rough estimate. The skills you build, the tools and knowledge you acquire, are not lost. And you won't have the problems with overheating because of lack of convection.
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My point is that you can't just say "it can't be done" you have to say why.

My other point is that it can be done. It has been done and people are working on doing it again. Whether it's in the realm of hobbyists is another matter, it isn't. Yet. At some point within the next 25-50 years it will be, but in order to know when that time is you must know what you're looking for. Nothing about it is impossible, just difficult.

You might say it's impossible and unfeasible to drive a car with an Arduino, but it's been done before. At one point it was considered impossible to cross an ocean. At one point it was considered impossible to have a general formula for the roots of a cubic equation.

Ultimately nothing is truly impossible just improbable or difficult.

So far nobody's come up with any concrete problems beyond my rather vague and obvious "heat and radiation." Anyone got any ideas on what kind of radiation one might expect to encounter on the surface of the moon? What about heat from the sun? It can get mighty hot when you're not in the shade, would a simple heat sink be enough? Is there anything else you could do?
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Well there is a simple test that you can perform on yourself - you can send Arduino (say anything that can do the job) to a neighboring country and make it send pictures back to you and do it for some time. Then multiply the time needed for this by some constant, and the cost incurred by some other constant, and you'll get some very rough estimate. The skills you build, the tools and knowledge you acquire, are not lost. And you won't have the problems with overheating because of lack of convection.
I think it would be more complex than just multiplying it by some constant You can't just say, well it costs $40 to fill up my gas tank for a week so divide the distance to the moon by my average mileage in a week and multiply that by $40 and that's how much it'll cost... It's not quite that simple.

In terms of rockets, you have to take into account the extra weight of the fuel required to carry extra weight. Currently rockets are the only way I know of to get things into space, but once there there's a few alternatives to get around.

Meanwhile, I still haven't solved the problem of radiation and cosmic rays...
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It's been a little fun and a little strange talk, but I'm sorry to state the obvious that you are deliberately driving this discussion towards max word count and min meaning.
I have a statement - you can not do what you say you want to do. And as you say yourself - be my guest and prove me wrong by providing as much evidence about your abilities, prior work and determination, as you have at hand. I am a mere spectator of your efforts to change my opinion.
In the meanwhile the Arduino community will continue struggling making the most basic line followers.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 09:32:55 am by mircho » Logged

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I watched the Top Gear team's fantastic failure of trying to put a reliant robin into space. I knew that was rather far fetched, but had the release mechanisms worked it might have actually made it.

That has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've read all week.
Probably this year.
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Awesome topic!

I may have to do some 'research' so I can contribute to the discussion.  For now, I shall lurk.   8-)

[EDIT]
OK, lurking done.

BTW: For all you NAY-sayers, shut the hell up:
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236996885

This is a cool subject and I'm sick of the negative responses.  Have you never had a discussion just for the heck of it?  And you have no idea who you are talking to.  Could be this person works for NASA in a high level engineering role, or could be a venture capitalist with a nack for tech, or could be a high school student dreaming about the possibilities.  Who cares?  It _could_ be a fun discussion if people would just stop being lame.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 01:09:00 pm by koyaanisqatsi » Logged

What about elevensies? Luncheon? Afternoon tea? Dinner? Supper?

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StarkRG - what age bracket would you put yourself in?  I only ask as I think it would perhaps put your comments into context.
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If your system involves lethal voltages/life critical/flamable elements - you probably shouldn't need to ask.
The Arduino != PC.

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This is a cool subject and I'm sick of the negative responses

Like I said, it's not negative, it's realistic.  The average private citizen simply lacks the funding, equipment, and quite frankly intelligence to put a device on the moon or even into orbit!

I would love to build one of those DIY laser cutting devices, but I know I just don't have the cash or time for it, so I'm not bothering to ask for help.

By all means, continue this thread, but I'm just trying to put a realistic spin on the conversation, rather than what sounds like a young teenagers unreasonable desires.

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StarkRG - what age bracket would you put yourself in?  I only ask as I think it would perhaps put your comments into context.

Agreed.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 04:46:54 pm by Tchnclfl » Logged

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