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Topic: BEGINNERS: If you can't describe your project, how can we help you? (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

lastchancename

Notwithstanding participants will have language differences, Many requests on the forum are close to being simply careless or illiterate.  Lazy - ir if wee're being generous, you're tired and frustrated with the problem - but that doesn't communicate well!
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If you prefer to work in a non-English group - no problem... You can post in International Forums, but to be honest, the languages & tools have primarily been developed in English, and to offer assistance - most of the members are fluent in English.

Now - to the careless / lazy part... !
If you can't string a sentence together - then you have no hope of writing software, which has strict rules of syntax and structure.  Stop now.

How to make your request gather more meaningful responses...
If you're trying to develop a complex project in one piece - we may discuss at length, but rapid assistance can only occur if we understand *what* you're trying to achieve.

You'll benefit more if you break the code down to the least size that will still fail to do what you are expecting - then once it's fixed, you can plug it back in to the whole project.
This will also reinforce the benefits of planning and structuring your code.  It doesn't get bigger in the chip - the compiler squashes most things down.

Don't ask us to read your mind.  This has been posted *many* times - but if you just say 'it doesn't work', we can certainly agree with you - but that's about all.  If we have no idea what you are expecting, or what it's doing wrong - then neither of us will learn anything - and many helpers will just 'walk away'.

Drawings and/or photos.
Many problems are caused by wiring problems or misunderstanding how devices should be connected.
Easy answer - take a *clear* photo of your actual project (not blurry fro the other side of the garden in darkness).  A photo is only half the solution - it is a representation of 'how it has been built' - unless you changed it afterward!

You *should* have a diagram of what you intended to build before you started building - if not, then no wonder you have wiring problems - only experienced hackers can successfully 'make it up as they go' - and they also make plenty of errors!

This schematic or logical/block diagram should be large and clearly detailed enough to identify pins/ signals and devices.  (Taken on this side of the garden in the light please!)
The first time you do it, you'll hate us, but when the project comes together you'll understand - and two years later, you'll remember 'why'.

In the meantime - it helps us enormously to understand where, why and how your journey is moving - and where it may be going off track.

There are hundreds of people here that want to help you - if you want to make the effort.
They will become sarcastic very quickly if you *demand* assistance without putting in your own 2c worth.
Experienced responders have a nose for laziness, (they were beginners once)... expecting the poster to contribute to the learning experience.

kenwood120s

Where are you going with this series?

On an ordinary forum board like this, these BEGINNERS write ups are just going to disappear, unless and until they get the odd response to bump them and then they'll drop again.

I think you should ask a mod for a sticky- just one sticky- inside which each BEGINNERS chapter can be linked.

Or put links in here via a mod?



[gumby]I've got my head stuck in the cupboard[/gumby]

lastchancename

i'd thought about that, but i'd hoped the mods have the foresight to make their own jobs easier.

I don't suppose to tell mods how t do their job, and we know they see all these threads. - they seem to let them rot on the vine... sigh.

I'm old enough to have lost faith in the modern concept of common sense, and realise that if 'anyone' can make a sticky - then there'd be no forum, just a wall of stickies.
Experienced responders have a nose for laziness, (they were beginners once)... expecting the poster to contribute to the learning experience.

kenwood120s

I'm old enough to.... realise that if 'anyone' can make a sticky - then there'd be no forum, just a wall of stickies.
My suggestion was to get them linked inside this existing sticky.

i'd hoped the mods have the foresight to make their own jobs easier.

I don't suppose to tell mods how t do their job, and we know they see all these threads. - they seem to let them rot on the vine... sigh.
It will take you 30 seconds to click Report to Mod on one of the posts in this and or the other threads, asking for them to be linked in the existing sticky.

Or, you can waste your time writing stuff that rots on the vine.
[gumby]I've got my head stuck in the cupboard[/gumby]

Robin2

I don't suppose to tell mods how t do their job, and we know they see all these threads. - they seem to let them rot on the vine... sigh.
I don't think that is fair and it's not how I see the role of the moderators.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that you should make a proposal to the moderators about how your series of comments might be linked.

But first, as @kenwood120s has said, if you make one Thread as the master with links to all the others then we can refer to all the Threads just by referring to that one Master Thread. When I started some of my tutorials the first thing I did was create 3 or 4 replies with nothing in them but "reserved". Then I could add more material at my leisure safe in the knowledge that all comments would come after my reserved Replies. None of this requires any intervention by the Moderators.

As another step you could ask the Moderator to lock your master so it could not be derailed by comments - but then you would need to get it unlocked when you want to update it.

And the final step would be to ask to have the master made into a Sticky or have it included in Nick Gammon's Useful Links Thread if the Mods think it has sufficient merit.

...R
PS. Picking up on Reply #3, I would not be in favour of having each one of your Threads listed separately in Nick Gammon's Thread - just the one Master Thread
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

lastchancename

Experienced responders have a nose for laziness, (they were beginners once)... expecting the poster to contribute to the learning experience.

kenwood120s

[gumby]I've got my head stuck in the cupboard[/gumby]

Coding Badly

...and we know they see all these threads.
Prove it.  Prove that we have enough time to read every thread on this forum.

(I will give you a hint: If we did have time Report to Moderator would not be necessary.)

Quote
they seem to let them rot on the vine... sigh.
Given your foolish assumption about our time versus number of posts is it any wonder.


Coding Badly


Now for your request...

The way we have handled such requests in the past is to let the community make suggestions / corrections for some reasonable amount of time and then them sticky.  This has several benefits with no large drawbacks. 

That's how we ended up with these...
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php/topic,148850.0
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=73748.0
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=125908.0

As far as I know, this is the only exception to that process (but @westfw is an exceptional person)...
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=322325.0

Because the request is essentially for a modification to the forum I tend to move them to Website and Forum.  For the most part that seems to work well.  I believe @nickgammon has run such threads in other parts of the fourm.  That seems to work well.  Do you have a preference?

There is some overlap between your post above and the How to use this forum - please read that Nick wrote.  Is there a reason you want a separate post instead of modifications to Nick's post?


aarg

I suggest taking stock of typical instances of the kind of behaviour you're talking about, and creating targeted boilerplate responses as some forum members, including myself and some mods, have done. These can be dispensed to specific posts and guide the poster to specific action that they can take immediately to improve the quality of their post.

I already have a collection of them, named after the issue, e.g. posted_no_code.txt but I don't use them much yet because I haven't had time to really edit and make them workable. Mine are all code related, but they could be extended to general aspects such as those that you are talking about.

Another nice thing about that, is that relevant links can easily be included.

I think I'll start working on a few when I get time...
youre_not_my_boss.txt
mind_reading.txt
doesnt_do_basic_research.txt
passive_aggressive_needy_knowitall.txt
program_by_trial_and_error.txt

and so on...
  ... with a transistor and a large sum of money to spend ...
Please don't PM me with technical questions. Post them in the forum.

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