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Author Topic: Arduino circuit/breadboard not working at higher voltage?  (Read 5449 times)
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hey guys...

thanks for the follow up.

Lefty.-

glad I finally got it right.. thanks for the help/guidance..



CrossRoads-

I 100% agree..

I did/do look at the schematics..  just not very familar/comfortable on how to read/use them..
I havent given up.. just sometimes need a bit more direction until things are 'normal' procedure for me.

I will go back to the other link to the Arduino circuit.. and look at the 'C6' stuff you are talking about.

See if I can figure it out.. and post back my attempts.

Thank you.
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There you go! At the best, you will find the "Reference Designator" (also called Ref Des) on the parts easily, at the worst we will have to copy part of the schematic, add some arrows & red circles or something & post a revised picture for you. There are not many parts to look at tho, I am sure you will find them.
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Thanks..

appreciate you guys hanging-in-there with me like this.

some members do NOT have the time or patience to be in the newbie section...(and be helpful to those who need it)

Im hoping I can get to it later today..study it a bit.. then out myself for the noob I am with some questions. =)

(Im soooo much more comfortable with programming side of things in life)  but no excuses..  anyone can learn

thanks..



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ok..stuck at work.. dont have my real circuit here..

so I mocked one up in photoshop to mirror my current circuit layout.

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so I can work on it a bit while...at work.  LOL
 
at least be able to communicate and visually display my interpretation

OK..I checked out .pdf as you suggested..
found the C6 portion..  (but being so new I cant 'just wire it up the same way' unfortunately)



Im a bit confused....

1.) as to 'WHY' this is needed....
2.) why this isnt/wasnt included on these barebones/minimal Arduino clone/circuit tuts I see all over?

(and still a bit un-clear on this series resistor comment you made..  just want to ensure I am doing thing proper..a bit hard when Im 'following' at this point.. smiley-cry  ..however I do appreciate your help/advice..   gotta sink in eventually)  =)

so on the diagram posted (C6)..

I see there is/are other lines/traces tied into this 100nF cap across the VCC & GND pins?
Is this something I need to deal/worry about?  Kind of confusing..(the diagram)

Your suggestion. is it as easy as just putting a 100nF cap across pins 7 (VCC) & 8 (GND)?

after the I/O pins..before the jumper wires, tying into the rails?

(still unclear as to what to do with those other lines 20 (Avcc) & 22 (GND) ??

(and again..my brain is stuck trying to figure out/worry about this series resistor you mentioned?)
when thinking about.. I think your just saying.. ALWAYS USE A RESISTOR on LEDS like that?..

"OR" are you saying.. I need to have this series resistor as part fo the circuit for other reasons?  as a base part of the Arduino 'circuit' itself..  regardless of the leds or other external components that may be used?

In the end.. I will implement the rule of 'always use a resistor'..  but I dont want to confuse myself on what is required to build the base circuit.. and what is needed for when I add 'blinkies/buttons'..etc..



to wrap up even more confusion.. LOL..

I am a bit confused on this:


2 different (same) crystal wiring diagrams?
looks to be mechanically the same? (same resistors used...same layout?)
but the name for the xstal is different?

That I need any more confusion..LOL.. but it was bugging me?!

Thanks






-------------------------------------------------------------------------
update:

ok.. here I am trying to implement both of you comments/suggestions.. (hoping Im correct)

adding the led..and resistor to it.. as well as adding the 100nF cap to the VCC & GND on the left side of chip.







any/all feedback is appreciated.

thanks guys.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 06:26:33 pm by xl97 » Logged


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Ok, good to see you're keeping busy.
1. Your photoshop is not correct. You Vin going to an empty row (if  you  call the groups of 5 pins rows), and GND going to the Vin pin on the regulator. Need to slide those down 1 hole each.
2. Power for pin 7 is going alllllllll the way around the board before it gets to pin 7. The cap to ground (pin 8 ) is there to ensure a clean supply voltage, especially
with the 16MHz oscillator right there.  The other lines show that these pins are connected to VCC, AVCC and AGND on the other side of the chip (power for the Analog parts of the chip). If you are planning on doing any analog functions, I would recommend a cap across pins 20 & 22 (AVCC) and 21 and 22 (ARef, see C4 at the top right of the schematic) for cleaner analog operations.
"Your suggestion. is it as easy as just putting a 100nF cap across pins 7 (VCC) & 8 (GND)?"  Yes.
"after the I/O pins..before the jumper wires, tying into the rails?" Right across pins 7 & 8.

3.The series resistor, seen in the upper right of the schematic as RN2A (or RN2B) should always be used with an LED to keep from burning up your output pin. It limits the amount of current that will go thru the LED.  They put an extra set of pads to allow a choice of parts. The LED turns when the output goes to 5V and either it will burn up or the output pin will burn up if left on long enough.
You don't need that LED at all - but it is the activity indicator used for the basic sketches & bootloader so you when download those you can see that the circuit is alive & well.

4. The other crystal part - if you look closer, you will notice above C6 there is Y2 (and XTAL1 and XTAL2). What this is is 2 sets of pads; 1 set for a 16MHz crytal Q23 and its two 22pF caps, and 1 set for a 16MHz Resonator and 1Mohm resistor that is used with it.   One or the other are used.  You have a crystal and caps, no need to worry there.
The Q1/XT1/XT2 are for the other uC chip that does the USB interface (vs an FTDI chip).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 06:53:04 pm by CrossRoads » Logged

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thanks for the reply!

yeah I moved some parts.. and forgot to move the lines..

(your fast!).. I had already uploaded corrected one before i got your email.. but you were probably typing..
 (hit [F5]..for new pics)

1.)  check and updated
2.) Is it bad I have the power going all the way around the board (powering the rails..and tapping them as needed)?
2a.) I think you meant/mean pin8?  (you put ( ) around it..and it parsed to a smiley face!  LOL)


Im actually running out of the office as we speak.. after kids soccer practice.. I'll be back to re-read and comment on the rest of #2 & #4


4.) good Im glad I donthave to worry..  less to worry about means I can get a firm/solid understanding of the basics..then move on.


thanks again (more to come)
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2, 2A. yes, pin 8. Gotta watch this editor!
Not bad about the power, just need some decoupling caps at the power pins to  squelch any noise.
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ok (home).. =)

I need to re-group a bit.. haha

2a.) check (was editor parse) ;P

back to 2.)

since Im not used to terminology ..etc I am nto sure if I am need to do something more.. or did it correctly.
Is my diagram correct? (the last one posted, with cap over pins 7&smiley-cool.. I believe so, as you answer 'yes' (when I asked if its just that easy)

and Im still un-sure/clear about you mentioning the v5 power being 'all the way around the breadboard' and going to pin 7...
this is ok? 
it 'is' ok, but if I do this.. I need to 'do what I did above'...yes?  (add a cap across pins 7 & smiley-cool..
you used 'decoupling' which is throwing me? & squelching  noise?

also did do the resistor portion correctly now? per your advice/post previously? (this was to quickly test the blink sketch on the chip)

If things are good so far..(and if you dont mind)..

I'd like to step things to the next step (your mention of analog functions & the series resistor for an activity led..or adding an activity led to the barebones set-up)

I know understand I should cap both sets of pins 20 & 22 / 21 & 22 (I'll go check the schematic again to see what size.) for a 'clean' power (right?)..  but what is an example of an analog function? I guess vs digital? are these the PWM enabled type pins? Is that what that means? and the others are not?  (trying to translate correct terminology to laymen understanding)  haha..

and
you said something about having an activity led..(like to mirror a true arduino board?)
so to start my search..  I should be looking for:

RN2A (or RN2B)

on the schematic, and try to copy the layout/implementation?

thanks




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Looks like you're good. You  have the resistor & LED on pin 19 (which is D13). This is the Activity LED. You have that and the resistor that goes with (equivalent of RN2A or RN2B) in your diagram.

Put decoupling caps as noted above to take out noise on the power supply pins.

The analog input pins, A0-A5, are used to convert analog signals to digital normally.
The PWM pins are digital pins that are switched on/off to create a series of pulses.
These pulses are then filtered to approximate an analog output (basically charging a capacitor with a bleed off resistor).
Wider pulses will charge the cap to a  higher voltage (approaching 5V) while narrow pulses will charge it less (approaching 0V).
The arduino program does this switching at around 500Hz with analogWrite(value), value from 0 to 255.
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Thanks for the reply.. =)

so what would I use an analog pin/function for? (example?)

what gives off an analog signal that I can only use on those pins..and not the digital pins?

and A0-A5 can NOT be used with.....??....certain things then as well?

I guess Im trying to get an understanding of the core difference & purpose of the digital pins vs the analog pins.



I wasnt even thinking the D13 (pin19) was the activity light..since I just put it there to test the blink app

so I can leave that led there as it is..

upload a new sketch and that led will flicker when the data is being transferred?  (I have to dig out my hacked cell phone data cable and upload a different sketch to test it out)

thanks again.. I am learning more every time you post....great info Im sure newbies like myself can benefit from. (and some learning/progress diagrams too)

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Use the analog pin to read voltage levels, maybe the voltage on a potentiometer for example, then do something with the resulting 0-1023 result (representing 4.89mV steps).
A0-A5 can be used as analog inputs, or as digital input/outputs.

I don't think D13 flashes during programming, I think at the most it just turns off after the download starts.
If you have an FTDI-Basic or equivalent
http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/DevTools/Arduino/FTDI%20Basic-v13-5V.pdf
for programming, it has LEDs that flash during programming.
These are the 2 yellow LEDs in the bottom middle of the UNO schematic.
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I know you said you use 100nF caps for those 3 places (7&smiley-cool & (20&22/21&22)

I dont think I have any on hand looking in my stuff.

I checked radio shack..  they didnt seem to carry much in caps at all..and no 100nF's

I do have

a.) 50v 0.47 20% Xicon Axial Eletrolytic Caps

and

b.) C326 0.1uF 50v Radial/Ceramic Caps

anything else be used?

guess I'll have to wait to order some stuff form mouser or something.. (hate paying shipping on small stuff like this) haha


thanks
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The 0.1uF would be great.

Are you in the US?
Browse www.dipmicro.com. $2.50 for shipping, great prices on stuff like this. Stock up a little qty 10 of things, prices drop down to 5-6 cents per part kid of range. They have some 'kits'  of parts, collections of caps, resistors, LEDs I think too, you can be set for a bunch of projects.
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thanks for the link!.. (checking it out now)

yes, Im in the US.. upper mid-west (WI to be exact)

I'll use the 0.1uF's (3 of them) until I can get some 100nF's in then..

thanks


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one =    1.0
tenths =         0.1 (1x10E-1)
hundredths = 0.01 (1x10E-2)
milli    =             .001 (1x10E-3) m
micro =             .000 001 (1x10E-6) u
nano =              .000 000 001 (1x10E-9) n
pico =               .000 000 000 001 (1x10E-12) p

So 100 nanoF = 100 x 10E-9 => 1x10E-7 => 0.1x10E-6 = 0.1uF
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