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Both AVR and PIC have been around for quite some time. The Arduino is already here and there is a clone board with a PIC microcontroller. As far as I see it, Arduino != AVR/ATMEL. And if someone ported the Arduino code for a board with a PIC in it, would it really make a big difference for whoever is starting with this?

Plus, let's not forget that I'm yet to see a nice and free C compiler that works with PIC. It's not chance that Arduino is based on AVR... and not any other microcontroller.

Plus, the main goal of Arduino is to bring people into electronics. Cut the small pesky details from them and get them interested so they search for information themselves after breaking the entry barrier that is normally quite high in electronics. And for that, the processor you have on the board isn't really a problem. Whatever processor, as long as you use the same language, works for this purpose. And that, is not something chipKit can take away from Arduino.

Also, do remember that this is a "war" like Macs x PCs, Canon x Nikon, Android x iOS...

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When radio came all the papers were in panic,
When TV came radio and papers paniced,
When internet came TV radio and papers paniced,
but they still all exist in their own niches.
Panic never helped, adapting to new situation does.

From a technical point of view Arduino is not the best, the fastest etc (some would even say obsolete). But it scores very very high on the fun top-10, and many people building sketches with only 2K of RAM do that because it is fun. Adding more memory is less fun, more MHz is less fun, etc   That fun-factor is difficult to copy. Accomplish something with minimal means is often more rewarding for the ego.

But sometimes you need a bigger board, just because the Arduino can't do it, the customer wants to, etc. I think this Chipkitz board looks quite nice, but so does the PANDA II see - www. tinyclr.com -
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These two statements are utter rubbish and show you don't know what you are talking about
For goodness sake, Mike, come down off the fence, stop beating about the bush and say what you really mean.
 smiley-grin
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Seems to me some of those otherd designs would be overkill for many projects.
A lot of things just need a little smarts and an external component or two.
Or may more direct hardware controlled IO and little more program memory.
So if one needs low cost and not a lot of program space, use a 168. Need more memory? Put in a 328.
Need more IO? Go to a 324. More memory? 644, 1284.
Even more IO? Time to move up to surface mount 1280, and 2560 for more memory.

But you can do a lot of things with just the 328 based card (or a standalone build) and a few external components.
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So, where is the rubbish?
This for a start:-
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all the projects which made Arduino famous will be fully adapted (or their authors will migrate) to Chipkit and other compatible boards - is happening already
Do you seriously expect ALL existing arduino projects to be ported over? For what advantage at what effort, you clearly don't have much experience of life and how it works.

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1. I'm relating to realities in my zone (is all what it matters)
I assume that mangled English means you only care about what is happening in your area, so why do you think it applies to all other areas. If one of your areas of interest is the RepRap, just because some one has started a project to use a new processor do you think everyone is going to abandon the old one? Only if it offers a significant advantage.

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And expect more where speed is needed.
The speed limitations on a RepRap system is not down to the processor, it is down to the mechanics and the extrusion system. Again this leads me to thing you don't know what you are saying.

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prices are already high
Come off it do you seriously think that? If you do you are a complete idiot with no idea of the cost of anything. Have you ever put a project into mass production? It is not just about adding up the component prices you know.


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My post suggest progress to Arduino platforms (and that you can't ignore "the signs").
Gosh you are right, panic panic abandon ship. (this is called irony)

@AWOL - off the fence enough?  smiley-wink

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I'm yet to see a nice and free C compiler that works with PIC. It's not chance that Arduino is based on AVR...

This is at the heart of the Arduino's success.  Until somebody comes up with PIC-GCC, PIC microcontrollers will never compete for the hearts and minds of hobbyists.  And if PIC-GCC does arrive, it won't compete with AVR-Arduino, it will just be added to it.  There will be PIC-based Arduino boards as well as AVR-based ones, and everybody will be happy.
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I'm yet to see a nice and free C compiler that works with PIC. It's not chance that Arduino is based on AVR...

This is at the heart of the Arduino's success.  Until somebody comes up with PIC-GCC, PIC microcontrollers will never compete for the hearts and minds of hobbyists.  And if PIC-GCC does arrive, it won't compete with AVR-Arduino, it will just be added to it.  There will be PIC-based Arduino boards as well as AVR-based ones, and everybody will be happy.


Well - that's basically happened with the ChipKIT (I think that's right?) - based on the PIC32 line, with a gcc-based compiler for it. Only time will tell whether people love or hate it. I personally think it will just be another option, much like the more advanced Arduinos out there (Sanguino 644, Mega1280, Mega2560, etc). We've already seen some ARM-based "Arduino-like" systems out there; there are options a-plenty, if you need the speed, memory, or I/O capabilities - and still want to use open-source development tools.

smiley
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Well no matter what evolution the hobby microcontroller market takes, I think the Arduino platform will survive for a long long time to come, if for no other reason then I don't think any new 32 bit controller offerings will be avalible in hobby friendly DIP packages. For homebrew/standalone projects it's hard to pass up the advantages of a DIP chip for some users, like me.  smiley-grin

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Well - that's basically happened with the ChipKIT (I think that's right?) - based on the PIC32 line, with a gcc-based compiler for it.

Some quick Google shows the PIC32-gcc compiler from Microchip has a code size limitation of 64K?  You have to pay $800+ to remove limitiations.  If I got that right Arduino is under no threat.  There will be the inevitable market push to 32 bit as a compatible option, the toolchain is the key.  Arduino figured that out at the start.

Whoever commits to the Arduino free tools mindset with compatibility will claim the emerging market (imho).  I hope it is Atmel, but will remain open to options from vendors that get it.
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Some quick Google shows the PIC32-gcc compiler from Microchip has a code size limitation of 64K?
I haven't looked at the PIC32 chips to see their memory sizes, but 64K sounds quite nice. I remember in other compilers like the Keil51 or the CodeVisionAVR had 1 or 2 k program limitation.

From what I see there's still a few chips with 64 or less K to use. But it's like 10% of the entire family.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 06:13:09 pm by bubulindo » Logged

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For homebrew/standalone projects it's hard to pass up the advantages of a DIP chip for some users, like me.  smiley-grin

The Pro-Mini boards are phenomenally small -- not much bigger than a DIP chip -- and even manage to include a voltage regulator and a reset button.  Admittedly they're more expensive than a bare chip, but for simple projects you don't need any external components or even a PCB.
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The compiler shipped with the chipKit IDE is NOT size-limited.   Like the ARM marketplace, the PIC32 market has some compiler/tool distributions based on gcc with "additional features" where then free version has some sort of limitation, OR you can use a less-featureful version of the basic gcc compiler that doesn't have size limitations (as essentially required by the gcc license(s))
ChipKit comes with the latter.

Competition does not doom a product unless the competition is better in every way.  Since some of the complaints against Arduino are mutually contradictory, that's going to be tough to do...
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"The Pro-Mini boards are phenomenally small -- not much bigger than a DIP chip -- and even manage to include a voltage regulator and a reset button.  Admittedly they're more expensive than a bare chip, but for simple projects you don't need any external components or even a PCB."

And one can get an Ardweeny that IS the DIp with the parts mounted on its  back!

I have put pins on prominis and installed them in sockets so that I could remove them easily for programming also, for example here.
I have also done this same board with just an atmega, crystal, 22 pf caps and pullup resistor since 5v comes from offboard and I don't need a reset pin.
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It might be more accurate to say that Arduino actually refers to a big idea, of getting microcontroller technology into the hands of more people.

I fully agree with you: Arduino is a whole concept, and a great one.

I am pretty excited that Digilent has ported over some basic Arduino tech (shields and software ideas), but I'm sure its going to suffer from the same thing that plagued the microcontroller before the Arduino came along: crappy support, and zero community.

I wasn't looking for more I/Os but for more power. So I bet 25€ on the chipKIT UNO32, knowing what could be the risks with a new platform and being ready to face them.



Actually, I've been delighted by the support and the community. Diligent and Microchip engineers participate on the forum actively.

Another great point is the strong commitment to the Arduino IDE, thank to close ties among developers.

I do hope the chipKIT gains some support and its users start showing off (and sharing) their projects, because a 32-bit processor is pretty darn cool.

Please have a look at my chipKIT UNO32 Board review and the compatibility issues and fixes.

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IMO the success of the Arduino concept is down to its low cost (free software + cheap hardware), open source nature, and ease of programming via the IDE and bootloader. What lets it down right now is the IDE, and to a lesser extent the libraries. If Microchip or some other MCU vendor were to put enough work into writing a better IDE and libraries, and still release it under a liberal open source license, maybe then Arduino would be under threat.
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