Go Down

Topic: Will the Due be a dud? (Read 10835 times) previous topic - next topic

tochinet

Hi again Rob,

A Wave additive synth is an audio synthesizer that generates sound by "adding" harmonics (waveforms), a bit like an organ. I think Roland made such synths in the 80's. The older variant (soustractive) was using high and low pass filters to "remove" harmonics from some generators (square/triangle/sawtooth).

But back to 32-bit, I'm convinced there is another reason. Probably one big hurdle for Arduino people is to get their software right. 1.0 was a terrible mistake that broke everything, they need to fix it. At least that's how I see it. Otherwise, why would the core team be so silent about these issues ?

On the power of 32 bit, it looks the normal way of evolution to me, and sure no overkill if it's the same price. I made a small 16-channel scope with a MEGA, and it cycles at 1 sample/sec. Not really a big issue for temp sensors, but clearly not the way to go for generic purposes ...

Graynomad

Quote
get their software right

I read somewhere that it will support debugging and other stuff, I wonder if that means a new IDE, maybe based on VS as that's what Atmel have moved to.

Quote
it looks the normal way of evolution

Yep, when there is a large selection of cheap 32-bit chips right down to 8 pins there will be little or no use for an 8-bitter.

Here's a thought, I recently used an LPC as a 12x12 digital mux in a design. Low speed compared to hardware but fast enough for the application and run-time configurable. When things are farst enough and cheap enough you can use them for all sorts of things previously unheard of. Why not have a 32-bit ARM working as an AND gate?

______
Rob
Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

retrolefty

  Well again I'm not completely sold on the Due upgrade path, at least for myself. My most standard usage of the arduino is to prototype a project and then migrate the code to a standalone DIP chip into the new project, not dedicate a complete arduino board to every project. As this old guy will not willingly build using SMD multi-pin components, there is little use for me for ARM based chips. So I wish them luck, but I most likely will trail far behind any early adopters of the Due.

Lefty

Graynomad

I have no specific use for an ARM board I admit, but I like the idea of designing one and the neat things one could do with the SAM chip. So I'll persevere with my "Due compatible" design for the time being in the hope that we get more details soon.

______
Rob
Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

tochinet

DUE compatible ? Did you see the design specs somewhere ? I'm definitely interested. Even a short list of features.

I tend to think to migrate towards some STM32 based chip. Not clear how it works, but there are boards with serial bootloader like Arduino. On some other forum I also saw some link to 4x4cm cubish stacks with 32-bits from ... Atmel by a German startup. Maybe you could be interested...

Graynomad

#35
Jan 11, 2012, 10:58 pm Last Edit: Jan 11, 2012, 11:45 pm by Graynomad Reason: 1
Quote
Did you see the design specs somewhere ?

I wish, that's why I used the quotes :)

I decided to just go my own way for the time being. It won't be physically compatible and maybe not even electrically compatible but I hope to have it compatible with the tool chain. Like the rest of us though I have to wait and see.

Quote
Even a short list of features.


•   SAM3U 96MHz ARM Cortex-M3 processor.
•   A 72-pin backplane with 8 addressable daughter boards.
•   Ability to individually reset daughter boards.
•   48-pin connector for memory expansion, fast IO and debugging.
•   Three interrupt lines allow stackables to provide vectored interrupts to the CPU.
•   Software control of power to the system and external devices.
•   512k bytes of external SRAM (expandable to 16.5Mb).
•   Battery backup for SRAM and the SAM3U’s RTC/RTT.
•   Serial PROM for non-volatile system parameters.
•   High-speed microSD interface.
•   Serial Synchronous Controller I2S interface for CODECs, DACs etc.
•   External watch dog and power monitor chip.
•   Eight 15v-tolerant analogue inputs.
•   32 digital IO with 5v or 3.3v support in both directions.
•   16 high-current digital IO with 5v or 3.3v support in both directions.

The schematics are nearly done, here's a render of a rough PCB layout.



I probably won't commit to anything until I see the real thing, it depends on how long that will be. Also I'm still leaning about the SAM and may make changes as I get to know more about the chip.

I have asked for input with little response but am still open to ideas. 

I guess I'm, saying that I don't think an ARM Arduino will be a dud and I'm putting my time (but not any money yet :)) into it, it's a logical extension to the Mega. As for the Due itself we have no details so that remains to be seen however just being part of the Aduino fraternity will help a lot.

Quote
On some other forum I also saw some link to 4x4cm cubish stacks with 32-bits from ... Atmel by a German startup. Maybe you could be interested...

Very much so, if you can find it please post a link.

______
Rob

Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

scott_fx


Quote
I want to make a wave additive synthesiser

I have no idea what that is :) but yes it needs some neat projects (audio or visual or even audio-visual I would think) to show what it can do.

Quote
I am trying to figure out what precisely to do with it that I could not do on a 1284-based Arduino OR a Linux capable board like Beagle bone.

I have a feeling that 90% of apps can be done with less and the 10% that need more have other options. Still there are other options to the standard Arduino and it does well. Just being an official Arduino port will count for a lot.

I've always thought the mega1284 was about perfect, I think I'll be holding off on my SAM design for the time being and might go back and revisit something similar I did a while back with the 1284.

______
Rob








i'm just learning about the due right now and i'm very new to programing and the arduino so excuse the ignorance.  but would the due be better fit for more intense lcd displays? something that can actually handle some more intense rendering/graphics?

winner10920

Yes, I imagine for people who want to have a large display it'd be awesome, it would be really cool if it had some capabilities to do what processing does on the computer, you know instead of sending to a computer to graph data, maybe it can be done directly with a nice size screen
it'd be awesome for people like me who really have no previous programming experience other than arduino, to be able to use the same language to do more powerful applications
I know I could learn more powerful processors and figure it out the long way, but I've found it much easier to see something like digitalWrite at first then dig deeper and see how it does it later once I have a basic understanding, 
Without the arduino platform it'd be like trying to explain how to use bitwise and direct port access to blink an led, while at the same time figuring out timers and other hardware that is hidden at first, it gives people a chance to learn the flow and basics first then if they need or want to dig deeper
just for that reason I think its worth it to develop the due,

Graynomad

Quote
it gives people a chance to learn the flow and basics first then if they need or want to dig deeper

That is the beauty of the Arduino concept I believe, you are isolated from the nitty gritty but on any line of code you can deal directly with the hardware.

Quote
something that can actually handle some more intense rendering/graphics?

The SAM is probably not the best ARM choice for high-res graphics rendering, many ARM chips have LCD interfaces built in and the SAM doesn't. I would not expect to get 3D rendering in anything like real time, but I don't think that's what Arduino users need from a board. The sort of thing I reckon people would like such as bar graphs, soft instruments etc would be a walk in the park for it.

______
Rob
Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

GoForSmoke

I've seen a lot of projects and code here that would be more suited for the Due than an UNO.

When I first checked out Arduino I saw the IDE and was almost sold just on that. I see the UNO as a development board, not as a primary platform. With the UNO I should be able to use the IDE to program lots of different ATmegas and ATtinys to run on their own and it even comes in handy to test an idea now and then. And the newer ATMEL MCU's have their own clocks even (3 less parts for <= 8 MHz), so I bought.

I'm not up to surface mount so for me the Due might be a way to get the power without building what I can't.

I did just order a Teensy++ because of the full USB speed and the extra memory and the price. I got w/pins so I can just set it in a breadboard and wire it up.



Nick Gammon on multitasking Arduinos:
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts

Grumpy_Mike

Quote
something that can actually handle some more intense rendering/graphics?

That would be the Raspberry Pi then http://www.raspberrypi.org/. It can produce HD video output straight from the board. They have just gone into production and expect to see the first ones by the end of the month.

scott_fx




Quote
something that can actually handle some more intense rendering/graphics?

The SAM is probably not the best ARM choice for high-res graphics rendering, many ARM chips have LCD interfaces built in and the SAM doesn't. I would not expect to get 3D rendering in anything like real time, but I don't think that's what Arduino users need from a board. The sort of thing I reckon people would like such as bar graphs, soft instruments etc would be a walk in the park for it.
______
Rob


i was thinking more along the lines of simple comps (maybe taking advantage of alpha channels/transparencies) and possibly animated icons.   something that would make a really amazing UI. 


winner10920

The rasberry pi seems cool mainly because its cheap, but (maybe just because its not out) confusing to set up and program, and I don't think some people need an operating system for their applications, especially with the extra complexity its not worth it
but that's just my opinion with the little experience I have

kerimil

Quote
it'd be awesome for people like me who really have no previous programming experience other than arduino, to be able to use the same language to do more powerful applications
It already exists - it's called processing (http://processing.org/)

AFAIK it runs on linux platforms so probably one could use it on raspberry PI

winner10920

Well yeah but I don't mean doing the programming on the board, just it receiving a program, basically the ability to take commands like that without the os and the speed to do it

Go Up