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Left Coast, CA (USA)
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Ok it could be counterfeited

I just question the use of the word 'counterfeit' when talking about 3rd party board suppliers. Clearly counterfeit has a legal definition and to the best of my knowledge in context with Arduino boards, it means that they cannot use the trademark name of 'Arduino'. This is a different issue then if a given board manufacture supports the arduino community or not. The Arduino company purposely released all there design documentation for anyone to use, private or commercial, asking only that all parties respect their trademark, not the design or the right to manufacture 'clones'.

 I don't in anyway condone or knowingly support any person or commerical party that does not respect and obey the usage of the Arduino trademark, but that does not mean that 3rd party board suppliers are building counterfeit boards unless they are indeed infringing on the trademark from a legal aspect, irrespective if they 'give back' to the community or not.

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Yes "counterfeit" is the wrong word.

What I mean is, it would be easier to make an informed choice of who to buy from if we know more information about who is supporting the community and how.

So I guess not infringing trademark and copyright (from a legal aspect) would be a mininum, and surely some of these guys go much further in their support of the community and maybe deserve some extra credit for that?





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The Arduino company purposely released all there design documentation
Actually, they didn't.  The fancy bottom-side silkscreen layer with the logo and map of Italy are not part of the reference design.  If you have a board that include them, but isn't from an official distributor, that's not a good sign!
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Why buy the Chinese clones? With a minor bit of effort you can program the bare chips and use them. I have made my own programmer board with a 20 pin and 28 pin socket and a 16Mhz resonator and I can program 8, 20 and 28 pin chips on it using my Arduino Uno. ATmel and whichever supplier I use make a buck and I don't have to wonder about the pirate company from China or Brazil.

Programing a chip directly is so simple, and takes no extra time and then you can embed the chip any way you want to. Might be better off investing a little of your time into designing a board and having a small batch made instead of buying a ripoff clone.

Personally, I am glad I got the Arduino Uno board to start with. I was able to get a device that worked, I was able to support the Arduino Project and I got the software and this forum. Great deal and a great price.
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The fancy bottom-side silkscreen layer with the logo and map of Italy

That is interesting since the boards I got from HK had that.

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Why buy the Chinese clones? With a minor bit of effort you can program the bare chips and use them.

Yeah. That's where I'm heading now. Gonna get an ISP, go barebones and low power. My first real Italian Arduino was a great start for me.

As a postcript:  I blew up the USB interface on one of my Chinese clones. But it was totally my fault  - accidentally put 12v thru it. Poetic justice and Karma is satisfied? smiley-lol

Apologies to TommieTippee for sorta hijacking the post.
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Yeah. That's where I'm heading now. Gonna get an ISP, go barebones and low power. My first real Italian Arduino was a great start for me.


You don't need to get an ISP. You already have an Arduino and that works just great as an ISP. The Arduino ISP Sketch that comes with 1.0 has to be changed to 9600 baud, or you use .22 and you can run it at 19200. 6 wires and a 120Ohm resistor and you can program chips all day long.

do a search for  - Arduino ISP
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The Arduino ISP Sketch that comes with 1.0 has to be changed to 9600 baud, or you use .22 and you can run it at 19200.

Or you can get a modified version from me that works at 19200, supports 250000 baud, and implements "polling".  Uploads are up to six times faster.  (I promise to get it published soon.  Work keeps getting in the way.)

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6 wires and a 120Ohm resistor and you can program chips all day long.

Neither a resistor nor a capacitor are not needed if the Arduino has a recent version of optiboot installed.
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I'm still puzzled by this, so could someone answer these basic questions  :

- ArduinoISP sketch is using SPI to program the target, right ?
- SPI serial can be any speed, hence faster than the Serial interface ?
- The IDE says "burning bootloader (in target) using Arduino as ISP." Does it burn a skech, bootloader or both ?
- If the target already has a bootloader, is it overwritten every time ?  (Pro mini for example)
- Is it possible to use SoftwareSerial or a Mega to program a target using "Serial2" ?

Sorry if these questions are a bit off subject.

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- ArduinoISP sketch is using SPI to program the target, right ?

Yes.

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- SPI serial can be any speed, hence faster than the Serial interface ?

No on the "any speed".  Maybe on the "faster than Serial".

The SPI bitrate is clamped by the target's clock.  If the target's clock is < 12 MHz, the maximum bit rate is target clock / 6 otherwise the maximum bit rate is target clock / 4.

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- The IDE says "burning bootloader (in target) using Arduino as ISP." Does it burn a skech, bootloader or both ?

Sets the fuses and burns a bootloader.

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- If the target already has a bootloader, is it overwritten every time ?  (Pro mini for example)

Every time Burn Bootloader is executed?  Yes.

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- Is it possible to use SoftwareSerial or a Mega to program a target using "Serial2" ?

Through a bootloader?  Yes.
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hence faster than the Serial interface
note that when you are using ArduinoISP, data is still sent over the serial port between the PC and the Arduino running ArduinoISP, before it is sent over SPI to the target chip being programmed.
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Thanks Codingbadly. So, 'Arduino as ISP' actually means only for installing bootloader, it's not what I need.

Can I annoy you onece more :
- This means that without a FTDI cable, you can't do anything with a Pro mini, right ?
- There is no sketch that uses an "Arduino as sketch relay to target", so I need to write one ?
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'Arduino as ISP' actually means only for installing bootloader, it's not what I need.

When you say "Arduino as ISP" are you referring specifically to the Burn Bootloader menu item?

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- This means that without a FTDI cable, you can't do anything with a Pro mini, right ?

Wrong.  Connect an ISP to the appropriate pins (GND, MOSI, MISO, SCK, and RESET) and it can be programmed.  The Arduino ISP sketch turns nearly any Arduino board (or compatible board) into an ISP capable of programming a Pro Mini.

However, I suspect using an FTDI cable is more convenient.

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- There is no sketch that uses an "Arduino as sketch relay to target", so I need to write one ?

By "relay to target" do you mean "program" or "upload" or "download"?  Or do you mean "relay serial data so I can debug"?
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I would be happier to have a direct PayPal to Arduino donation link than banners or trying to keep up with who pays royalties. That way -all- the money I give goes where I want it.
Otherwise it's like these Firemen/Police/Paralyzed Veternas "charity" collectors that give maybe 5%-10% (ask, they are legally obliged to tell and I have been _proudly_ told that they gave 10% as if that's a big deal! Sure it is! Legally they only have to give 5%! @&#$ Leeches, they keep 90%-95% tax free legal as a "charity"). However if you give right to the FD, 100% goes where it's supposed to.

I'd rather have a Support Arduino link and be done with it. A few dollars from every member once in a while and they can maybe hire more staff, I'd gladly give them at least $20 a year and I'm disabled!
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But Arduino is not a charitable organization.  It's a for-profit (and profitable!) business, entitled to receive royalties for its designs.  Somewhat voluntary royalties, since the designs are open source and don't REQUIRE anyone to pay royalties to use them.

I find this preferable, compared to (for example) Rasberry Pi, whose whole funding model is a bit too weird for me...
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I would be happier to have a direct PayPal to Arduino donation link than banners or trying to keep up with who pays royalties. That way -all- the money I give goes where I want it.
Otherwise it's like these Firemen/Police/Paralyzed Veternas "charity" collectors that give maybe 5%-10% (ask, they are legally obliged to tell and I have been _proudly_ told that they gave 10% as if that's a big deal! Sure it is! Legally they only have to give 5%! @&#$ Leeches, they keep 90%-95% tax free legal as a "charity"). However if you give right to the FD, 100% goes where it's supposed to.

I'd rather have a Support Arduino link and be done with it. A few dollars from every member once in a while and they can maybe hire more staff, I'd gladly give them at least $20 a year and I'm disabled!

Your assumption that all the money donated through Paypal would go to the Arduino people is incorrect.  Paypal keeps a percentage of all money that passes through its hands.
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