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Topic: Understanding the System (Read 828 times) previous topic - next topic

Stupidav

Sorry if this is not posted in the correct place.
I have been messing around with various thing over the years and I recently I got a PIC controler demo kit from Vellman (K8055). After some research on a project that I want to complete, I found Arduino. I was some what disappointed with the PIC controller, only by my testing is dependant on Vellman's Firmware or if I am understanding the terminology correctly BootLoader which is allowing me to create the program / Sketch (again if my terminology is correct) to be put on the PIC Microcontroller.

My question is (before I go out and buy everything); After I create, test, and verify everything, on one of the Demo Boards (Uno as an example), can I (genarically speaking) go out and buy an AVR pop it into the board download the BootLoader / Firmware, then download the program / sketch, remove then install into the device I created?

If not necessarilly correct what do I need to accomplish something like this?

Also is there an AVR that has a builtin USB controller like the PIC?

kf2qd

You can use your Arduino board as an ISP by loading the ArdunoISP sketch (You want to use Arduino 0.22 rather than 1.0 to load the ArduinoISP Sketch) and then you can program other ATMel chips. You might want to search using the phrase - Arduino as ISP and you can see what others have done.

I made a small board that I can attach to my Arduino and with it I can program a variety of 8, 20 and 28 pin ATMel chips.

Stupidav

So if I understand you and what I have been reading correctly, you can't download / burn the Bootloader directly to the AVR Chip directly on the demo board, but with a second board (Arduino or home made) you can basically have one program the other via ArduinoISP Sketch on the "Primary" board chip which is told what to load to the other from the PC?

Sorry for the Stupid questions, with the PIC the only thing that I have found are $200+ programmers which is a major bummer considering I plan of giving my project to several friends and eventially sharing the plans with the world.


bubulindo

Yes.

You can program your Arduino to be an ICSP programmer and use it to program another AVR chip. It can be on an Arduino board or on a breadboard. All you'll need is to power the chip and put a crystal and capacitors on it.

Eu não sou o teu criado. Se respondo no fórum é para ajudar todos mediante a minha disponibilidade e disposição. Responder por mensagem pessoal iria contra o propósito do fórum e por isso evito-o.
Se realmente pretendes que eu te ajude por mensagem pessoal, então podemos chegar a um acordo e contrato onde me pagas pela ajuda que eu fornecer e poderás então definir os termos de confidencialidade do meu serviço. De forma contrária toda e qualquer ajuda que eu der tem de ser visível a todos os participantes do fórum (será boa ideia, veres o significado da palavra fórum).
Nota também que eu não me responsabilizo por parvoíces escritas neste espaço pelo que se vais seguir algo dito por mim, entende que o farás por tua conta e risco.

Dito isto, mensagens pessoais só se forem pessoais, ou seja, se já interagimos de alguma forma no passado ou se me pretendes convidar para uma churrascada com cerveja (paga por ti, obviamente).

Zula

Does that specifically also mean No, you cannot just put a new chip on your Arduino(in place of it's current chip) and program that way?

bubulindo


Does that specifically also mean No, you cannot just put a new chip on your Arduino(in place of it's current chip) and program that way?


Yes, the bold sentence is correct.
Eu não sou o teu criado. Se respondo no fórum é para ajudar todos mediante a minha disponibilidade e disposição. Responder por mensagem pessoal iria contra o propósito do fórum e por isso evito-o.
Se realmente pretendes que eu te ajude por mensagem pessoal, então podemos chegar a um acordo e contrato onde me pagas pela ajuda que eu fornecer e poderás então definir os termos de confidencialidade do meu serviço. De forma contrária toda e qualquer ajuda que eu der tem de ser visível a todos os participantes do fórum (será boa ideia, veres o significado da palavra fórum).
Nota também que eu não me responsabilizo por parvoíces escritas neste espaço pelo que se vais seguir algo dito por mim, entende que o farás por tua conta e risco.

Dito isto, mensagens pessoais só se forem pessoais, ou seja, se já interagimos de alguma forma no passado ou se me pretendes convidar para uma churrascada com cerveja (paga por ti, obviamente).

Zula

What if you installed the bootloader with an ISP, then could you put the chip striaght onto the arduino board and continue programming and using it?  If not, what does one do when they fry their chip?

Graynomad

Quote
What if you installed the bootloader with an ISP

Then you can drop the chip into an Arduino. You will have to pay attention to the fuse settings as well, for example you need to select an external crystal and there may be others.

______
Rob
Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

James C4S

#8
Jan 30, 2012, 03:24 am Last Edit: Jan 30, 2012, 01:42 pm by James C4S Reason: 1

can I (genarically speaking) go out and buy an AVR pop it into the board download the BootLoader / Firmware, then download the program / sketch, remove then install into the device I created?

The Arduino board by itself cannot program the boot loader.  You can use an existing Arduino board (or ATmega328) to program another, however.

The "Arduino Environment" only supports the ATmega168/328 and ATmega1250/2560.  There are extensions for other AVRs, but those are the only two that area officially supported (today).


Also is there an AVR that has a builtin USB controller like the PIC?

Yes, many do.  The ATmega8u2 does and is the USB-to-serial converter on the Uno.   The ATmega32u4, also known as the Teensy, does as well.  This is also the processor for the upcoming Leonardo.

edit: fixed typo
Capacitor Expert By Day, Enginerd by night.  ||  Personal Blog: www.baldengineer.com  || Electronics Tutorials for Beginners:  www.addohms.com

westfw

Quote
ATmega128/238

Um.  Typo alert.  ATmega168/328.  And also the ATmega8.

You can put a new chip in a breadboard with a relatively small number of support parts, use your existing Arduino (running ArduinoISP or similar) to program a bootloader into the new chip, and then plug the new chip into your arduino and download sketches/etc.

If you have two arduinos, you can use one of them to program bootloaders into a blank chip that has been inserted into the other one, given a few wires between the two boards.  Or there are add-on shields that will turn your Arduino into a bare-chip programmer (complete with ZIF socket.)

You can get an ISP programmer for AVRs for about $10 (you can get a PIC programmer for about $10 too, though a "good" one (PICKit2 clone) would be $20.  Even a genuine PICKit3 direct from Microchip is less than $50.  There aren't many chips out there these days that require $200 programmers before you can use them at all.

The Velleman board you mention seems to be more of a "read and control hardware from your PC/phone/etc" than a "development board" for PIC.  Arduino can be used this way too, but gives you much more control over the software that runs in the microcontoller.  OTOH, it doesn't have some of the other features of the velleman board.


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