Go Down

Topic: aTmega328s so fragile??? (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

tjp

I am really having a hard time getting ATmega328s to survive parallel port programming. I bought a couple a year ago and using the barest ppp, MOSI, SCLK and MISO tied directly to the parallel port thru 1k resistors, and they both failed with MISO, the chip output, going bad. I went back to PICs, I've NEVER had one fail even using the simplest of Tait type programmers on the parallel port.
Well I decided to try Atmel and Arduino again and built the PPPD programmer from this web site
http://www.aplomb.nl/TechStuff/PPPD/PPPD English.html

Which uses a 74HC244 buffer (I used an LS device since I have them and the 328 is spec'ed to supply up to 40 ma and LS TTL draws less than 10ma and the LED/1k resistor draws just over 3ma on pin 13).
Since I am nearly broke, my job went to China, I bought three ATmega328s since three chips were cheaper than any one Arduino board.

I first just used avr-gcc to create a simple output pin square wave and set the fuses for low power oscillator and 16 Mhz crystal, 22 pf caps, etc. It worked fine. The I tried running the Blink example sketch and never got it to run. This is what I was trying to trouble shoot and the problem is posted in the Installation and Troubleshooting forum.

But, then avdude complained about not finding a chip and sure enough the oscilloscope showed no activity on the MISO line it just stays high. If you disconnect the MISO line from the programmer it drops to gnd and when avrdude is executed you do see pulses as it tries to reply, but they are less then 250mv in amplitude.

What gives????

tj


johnwasser

The schematic says: "Target AVR supplies power to the dongle: So make sure the target is powered on (5V)."

What was powering the AVR?
Send Bitcoin tips to: 1L3CTDoTgrXNA5WyF77uWqt4gUdye9mezN
Send Litecoin tips to : LVtpaq6JgJAZwvnVq3ftVeHafWkcpmuR1e

Coding Badly


westfw

fwiw,  I haven't killed an ATmega yet, despite quite a bit of ArduinoISP programming of bootloaders and such...

Have you spent enough on your cheap programming setup to think maybe you should have bought one of the $10 USBASP programmers, or a $20 USBtinyISP yet?  I mean, I'm as frugal as frugal can be, but the price of "real" programmers has been going down, while the difficulties in using a parallel port have been getting worse...

Jack Christensen


fwiw,  I haven't killed an ATmega yet, despite quite a bit of ArduinoISP programming of bootloaders and such...


Ditto, although my experience is limited to the USBtinyISP, it's worked great. I did accidentally power an ATmega328 project on 9V the other day, just for a couple seconds, but it's still going...

Now that we've sufficiently tempted the "chump gods" I suppose we'll be frying things left and right :smiley-eek:
MCP79411/12 RTC ... "One Million Ohms" ATtiny kit ... available at http://www.tindie.com/stores/JChristensen/

Constantin

I mean, I'm as frugal as frugal can be, but the price of "real" programmers has been going down, while the difficulties in using a parallel port have been getting worse...


Ditto. The cost is so low compared to the potential trouble one can get into. However, I would stay away from the Adafruit unit until they resolve their inability to program any Atmel  with more than 64kB of memory. There are other choices out there at very low cost, CrossRoads mentioned a programmer to me (that I have since forgotten) that was a design based on the AVR ISP MKII which sold for less than $20 and which was compatible with 'larger' Atmel chips. If I hadn't already bought my programmer from Atmel, I would have jumped on that unit instead.

johnwasser


Have you spent enough on your cheap programming setup to think maybe you should have bought one of the $10 USBASP programmers yet? 


I've had luck with ArduinoISP but I just bit the bullet and blew $9.80 on the USBASP.  Thanks for the pointer. :)
Send Bitcoin tips to: 1L3CTDoTgrXNA5WyF77uWqt4gUdye9mezN
Send Litecoin tips to : LVtpaq6JgJAZwvnVq3ftVeHafWkcpmuR1e

smeezekitty


fwiw,  I haven't killed an ATmega yet, despite quite a bit of ArduinoISP programming of bootloaders and such...

Have you spent enough on your cheap programming setup to think maybe you should have bought one of the $10 USBASP programmers, or a $20 USBtinyISP yet?  I mean, I'm as frugal as frugal can be, but the price of "real" programmers has been going down, while the difficulties in using a parallel port have been getting worse...


If you think thats cheap, try $5. http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-ISP-Programmer-ATMEL-AVR-51-ATMega-ATTiny-/290592019943?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item43a8a255e7
Note, I have no experience with these but for $5 I will probably give it a shot :)
Avoid throwing electronics out as you or someone else might need them for parts or use.
Solid state rectifiers are the only REAL rectifiers.
Resistors for LEDS!

johnwasser


If you think thats cheap, try $5. http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-ISP-Programmer-ATMEL-AVR-51-ATMega-ATTiny-/290592019943?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item43a8a255e7
Note, I have no experience with these but for $5 I will probably give it a shot :)


Hmm..  It says "Can not programme Bootloader procedure of AVR single chip" and they don't list the ATmega328 or 328P as supported. ?!?
Send Bitcoin tips to: 1L3CTDoTgrXNA5WyF77uWqt4gUdye9mezN
Send Litecoin tips to : LVtpaq6JgJAZwvnVq3ftVeHafWkcpmuR1e

Constantin

#9
Feb 03, 2012, 03:22 am Last Edit: Feb 03, 2012, 03:24 am by Constantin Reason: 1
And it only features a 10 pin head assy as best as I can tell. Maybe the conversion over to a 6-pin head is easy. But I'd look for a 6-pin unit. Plus, being told that the unit in question will be randomly selected from among two (when it is unclear what unit does what) is not exactly heart-warming either.

westfw

Yeah; it's a little questionable which firmware those extra-cheap programmers will end up containing.  In theory, they should be re-progammable with something better...

smeezekitty



If you think thats cheap, try $5. http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-ISP-Programmer-ATMEL-AVR-51-ATMega-ATTiny-/290592019943?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item43a8a255e7
Note, I have no experience with these but for $5 I will probably give it a shot :)


Hmm..  It says "Can not programme Bootloader procedure of AVR single chip" and they don't list the ATmega328 or 328P as supported. ?!?

I would think that it would support the Atmega328 if it correctly implements the programming protocol.
Avoid throwing electronics out as you or someone else might need them for parts or use.
Solid state rectifiers are the only REAL rectifiers.
Resistors for LEDS!

putyn

after i build my own version of usbasp (programmed it with arduino) i bought a cheap clone from ebay because it was so cheap and i paid 6$

as soon as i got it plugged it into my laptop everything was good unit was running, problems appeared after i flashed the last version of the usbasp firmware - the upgrade made the programmer unusable (wasn't anymore recognized by the OS and  wasn't listed a usb device)
since the programmer didn't come with a datasheet or a schematic i can't think what could have gone wrong - only thing that i can think would be that the pin were changed and they wouldn't match usbasp schematic/firmware

and my usbasp can burn bootloader with no problem ive burned on atmega8,168,328 without any problems

CrossRoads

I like this programmer,
http://www.mdfly.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=415
Added a simple entry to programmers.txt so it shows up. (thanks PaulS!)
Have used it for lots of '1284s, '328s, loading bootloaders, and also sketches sans bootloader under 1.0.

ATMega8 based.
Designing & building electrical circuits for over 25 years. Check out the ATMega1284P based Bobuino and other '328P & '1284P creations & offerings at  www.crossroadsfencing.com/BobuinoRev17.
Arduino for Teens available at Amazon.com.

Nick Gammon

I haven't blown up any Atmega chips in the last couple of years, and I have worked with a few "in the wild" so to speak (not on an Arduino board).

A few days ago I thought I had a bad MAX7219 chip. But guess what? It turned out to be a wiring error.

And recently someone here complained that their temperature sensor chips weren't working. Another wiring error.

The guy on the web page you quoted says himself:

Quote
Still no working PPPPD ? Be kind to yourself, and stop spending time on it. Consider to buy an AVRISP


I've been using the USBtinyISP to program the chips not on a "proper" board. It works fine.

As johnwasser said, are you powering your chip? If not, there is the reason there is no data from MISO.


Go Up