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Topic: Bitcoin miner - Is it possible? (Read 36443 times) previous topic - next topic

Robin2

So how do we know that someone at the back of the bitcoin (or similar) system doesn't have a simpler algorithm for his/her own use. Who is that someone? Can s/he be fired?

I would have some sympathy with the system if the combined computing power was put to some practical use - for example on scientific research (though NOT  SETI :))

...R

PS maybe its time this Tread move to Bar Sport (where I won't see it).
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

wizdum


So how do we know that someone at the back of the bitcoin (or similar) system doesn't have a simpler algorithm for his/her own use. Who is that someone? Can s/he be fired?

I would have some sympathy with the system if the combined computing power was put to some practical use - for example on scientific research (though NOT  SETI :))

...R

PS maybe its time this Tread move to Bar Sport (where I won't see it).


There is no "someone". The entire thing is open source and P2P. The creator of bitcoin did "pre-mine" quite a few coins (since the difficulty goes up with the number of miners, and the number of coins mined, the people that get in early get more coins faster), but there are other coins that did not have a pre-mine period.

The news has greatly exaggerated the recent "thefts". Crypto-Currencies are  only slightly more secure than cash (since they are smaller, you can hide them more easily). The people that lost money recently were morons. They left their coins sitting in random online accounts that were run by "exchanges". It would be like asking a 10 year old to hold your wallet for a second, then waiting a year before asking for it back. You should only give money to a currency exchange when you want to exchange currency. Its not a bank.

I sell all my coins on eBay at 4x market value.

Paul__B


There is no "someone". The entire thing is open source and P2P. The creator of bitcoin did "pre-mine" quite a few coins


Yes, quite a few.  About a million or so.  How much is that worth now?

wizdum



There is no "someone". The entire thing is open source and P2P. The creator of bitcoin did "pre-mine" quite a few coins


Yes, quite a few.  About a million or so.  How much is that worth now?



About 100 Million Litecoins.

reymarkperry

If you're trying to get into bitcoin mining, might as well consider pool mining as it can be more profitable than doing it solo. Read more about this here: http://bitcoindaily.com/bitcoin-pool-mining-good-or-bad/

PeterH

Even so, the only to make money from mining is if the equipment is free and you aren't paying anything to operate it.

If you look at the price/performance of current commercial mining hardware you'll see is priced so that it will never pay for itself, even if you ignored the operating costs. And it's obvious why that is a good business strategy - if they were capable of earning more than the sale price, you'd be mad to sell them.

If you ignore the capital cost (your hardware has already paid for itself) then only the most advanced ASIC based designs are capable of earning more than the cost of the electricity they use, and that margin is declining steadily. What's happening is that there is a steadily reducing total revenue which is being shared between all the bitcoin miners in the world. In effect you're in an arms race against every other miner. Every increase in the world wide mining capacity reduces your share, of a payout which is also being reduced steadily. It's no longer profitable, and it will never be profitable again. The only way to make money on crypto currency now is by trading i.e. taking advantage of people willing to buy into a ponzi scheme.

As I said earlier, I see no chance that bitcoin will ever work as a general currency in its current form because it is unaccountable and untraceable - every transaction relies on trust. Dark wallet is a step in the right direction, but only a step.

wizdum



As I said earlier, I see no chance that bitcoin will ever work as a general currency in its current form because it is unaccountable and untraceable - every transaction relies on trust. Dark wallet is a step in the right direction, but only a step.



Actually, Bitcoin is perfectly traceable and perfectly accountable. Every transaction is on a public ledger, thats how people found out that Mt. GOX was ripping them off. Accounts linked to Mt. GOX had more coins going in than were going out, yet the people in charge were trying to say that they had nothing left.

As for making money with BitCoin? Its no longer possible. There are organizations that are spending millions of dollars on warehouses full of mining gear, with custom liquid cooling systems that are integrated into the building. The little guy doesn't stand a chance. You can still make money with altcoins if you are smart about it. Find a group of friends that play video games and want to mine. Use your gaming PCs to mine instead of purchasing new graphics cards. You also need to move quickly. Find a currency thats on the way up, mine the crap out of it for a week, and convert all your coins to cash as soon as you get them.  You can also get 2x - 4x more for your coins if you sell them on ebay, since people don't want to deal with the exchanges.

Cryptocurrencies are essentially high-risk investments. You don't make money on high-risk investments by holding onto them for the long term. I lost about $200 in potential profit because my group got gold fever and didn't cash out for a month. During that time the price went from $100 USD for 10,000 coins to $10 USD for 10,000 coins. At the time, each member was making about 8,000 coins a week. With the prices so low, I held onto them for another couple of weeks and sold them to a believer at $45 for 10,000 coins.

PeterH


Actually, Bitcoin is perfectly traceable and perfectly accountable. Every transaction is on a public ledger


The public ledger doesn't make it traceable or accountable, it just means that there is a record of a payment from one anonymous address to another one. If I try to buy something from you and pay by bitcoin, my only option is to send payment to the address you tell me, and hope that you decide to send me the goods in return. I have no way to prove that the payment reached you, because I have no way to prove that you own the address I sent it to. Assuming the payment reaches you, you have no way of knowing what transaction the payment related to. Even if you admit to having received it, I have no way of proving that the payment constitutes my side of a contract between us. If you decide to simply ignore me after receiving the payment, I have zero options to identify you, locate you and recover my money.

The only way that makes sense is to have some escrow service that both parties trust. But that just moves the problem on slightly - how much is it sensible to trust any of these bitcoin escrow services? Unless they're backed by a commercial organisation that will stand behind a legally binding contract, there's nothing to stop them pulling another MtGox on us.

makerinchief

I know this post is a bit old but wanted to chime in just in case anyone is curious about actually mining Bitcoin with an Arduino. 

I was wondering the same thing.  What if I made a few big pcbs, populated them with Arduinos and mined coin? 

Did some Google research and while it seems to be theoretically possible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_BwvC4hppk

Its now where near efficient enough to be practical.  The dude in the video was getting 1666 hashes per second, or 1.6 kilo hashes. 

For comparison, you can get this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitmain-ANTMINER-S5-1-15TH-s-Bitcoin-BTC-ASIC-Miner-/131441362006

Which does 1.15 tera hashes per second. 

So you would need about 1 billion Arduino Dues to do the same as one Antminer. 

joric


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