IC Fabrication Company...

My under graduation is electronics based. I have done programming and made my own projects using dotted PCB. From the link posted It seems that the intial setup cost might be in millions. Is there ways to cut these cost off? I am looking for a cost effective setup. Manufacturing PCB is in parallel with Institutes which provides course on how to use them. It will also be available in online retail store.

I have seen small scale manufacturers having their name in circuit boards that they design. SparkFun has their own pcb boards. Do they have the same setup? Simple Labs, Basha electronics, sunrom are some online retailers who manufacture pcb on their own, from what I know, they have more cost effective methods of producing them. Could you please suggest on this.

I am not giving up on this PCB stuff though. If its not cost effective, I would think about outsourcing it. But I am hoping that there would be a cost effective way to do it.

FelixFelicis:
I have seen small scale manufacturers having their name in circuit boards that they design. SparkFun has their own pcb boards. Do they have the same setup?

You are aware that a company or person need not own a PCB fab to have their name put on a board? Sparkfun makes a fair number of boards, I'm not aware that they own a fab.

I have my name put on cards that iteadstudio builds for me.
Well, my initials and the year anyway. But you can get carried away and put anything you want on the card.

Did you manufacture that pcb?

No, I had iteadstudio manufacture it. I assembled the parts onto it.
I could perhaps etch the copper and drill the holes, but I don't have the means for applying the solder mask (gives the green color), for making the connections thru the board (thru hole plating), or adding the crisp marking. And doing it all repeatable manner.
Companies like iteadstudio have all the automated tools for doing that. I just had to send them the Gerber files that define the design, which I created in eagle.

How do you etch the copper and drill holes, is there a cheap professional tool to do these. How much does hole plating and solder masking machines cost? How much did itdea charge you to make that board?

www.iteadstudio.com, do some reading.
Completed boards are priced by size.
I design them using Eagle from cadsoftusa.com, other tools are also available.

For the record, Sparkfun is about 5 minutes from my house and I've been there many times and walked through the building. They do not have any pcb manufacturing capabilities. Like many of us, they too outsource the job. They only do assembly in house. They have some awesome pick and place machines as well as ovens on the property.

That was a nice site. Got lots of data for my project. Thanks a lot. I still would like to know how you etch and drill. what machines you use?

Drilling is generally done with a CNC drill press, able to use various drill sizes. Recently some manufacturers have moved to CNC laser drilling which allows for much smaller and tighter holes.

As for etching, I would presume you can built your own etch tanks and process. There are machines for that but I don't have an idea of where to point you to. But, when you start getting into that scale, you need to think about the facilities and proper ventilation of the chemicals, as well as proper disposal. You can't just wash the stuff down the drain. So now you're dealing with your municipality and what you can or can't do.

If you are serious about this, there is no cutting corners and you are looking at a rather large venture capital to start with. As you've already discovered, it'll be in the millions. Nothing says you CAN'T do this, assuming you can secure the funding. However, you need to keep in mind your competition: China.

I can have ten 50mm x 50mm boards made for under $10 + s/h from China. I can have three of the same board made through OSH park (who also outsources to China) for the same price. Or I can have a single one made at a company that's 100% based in the US, for a little over $300 (price based on a September 2012 quote.)

China has the raw materials locally, they don't need to import anything (from afar). This is why a lot of the electronics giants are in Asia (besides cheap labor.) Companies based in the US (or anywhere else for that mater) have to import everything ... 99% of the time, from those Asian countries. Someone, somewhere, has to pay for that. So, it's either we outsource it all for cheap, or we pay a premium. I choose to outsource, as does a lot of other US companies ... Apple being a big one.

I still would like to know how you etch and drill.

I personally don't, iteadstudio does all that. The video's I linked to earlier discuss that, you can search for other information on the same.

If you search the forums for the word 'vinyl' you will eventually find a method of creating one-off pcbs yourself.

KirAsh4:
As you've already discovered, it'll be in the millions. Nothing says you CAN'T do this, assuming you can secure the funding. However, you need to keep in mind your competition: China.

I can have ten 50mm x 50mm boards made for under $10 + s/h from China. I can have three of the same board made through OSH park (who also outsources to China) for the same price. Or I can have a single one made at a company that's 100% based in the US, for a little over $300 (price based on a September 2012 quote.)

There are places in the U.S. that can make PCBs for much less than that. Albeit, it takes a bit of searching around. I've done the homework, because I refuse to support the downfall of the American economy & workforce just to save a few bucks. — I need to start a thread with links to reasonably priced American PCB manufacturers that people can use.

China has the raw materials locally, they don't need to import anything (from afar). This is why a lot of the electronics giants are in Asia (besides cheap labor.) Companies based in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) have to import everything ... 99% of the time, from those Asian countries. Someone, somewhere, has to pay for that. So, it's either we outsource it all for cheap, or we pay a premium. I choose to outsource, as does a lot of other US companies ... Apple being a big one.

Actually, the U.S. (and other countries) exports many of the raw materials to China, and then imports the finished products back in. Where China prevails is in labor costs (and lower overall cost & standard of living). What I made in one day as a Union Journeyman can pay an entire assembly line to work for (at least) a whole week in China. And, since most workers are forced to live, sleep, & eat at the manufacturing compounds where they work, there is no need to pay the workers "extra" for those expenses that almost everyone in other countries would have. Well, that, and the Chinese government artificially devaluing their money to keep the exchange rates in their favor....

Yes, China has a huge advantage for now. But, that's why we need people working on new business models that may help balance things out.

There are places in the U.S. that can make PCBs for much less than that.

I've not been able to find one. In most cases, there is a setup charge that makes small lots uneconomical.
Places I have tried were not able to accomodate combining small boards into a panel for unique users.
I suppose if you wanted to take on that task, as dorkbot/patchpcb has done, and with a US manufacturer, you might make a go of it.

CrossRoads:

There are places in the U.S. that can make PCBs for much less than that.

I've not been able to find one. In most cases, there is a setup charge that makes small lots uneconomical.
Places I have tried were not able to accomodate combining small boards into a panel for unique users.
I suppose if you wanted to take on that task, as dorkbot/patchpcb has done, and with a US manufacturer, you might make a go of it.

$34 / board. 2 layers. Full spec. 5 day lead time. Located in Arizona.

As low as $28 / board, shipped. 2 layers, etc, etc.... Located in Oregon.

So how is that better than a 10-lot at $0.99/5cmx5cm board + $5-8shipping,
http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping/im120418001.html
or a 10-lot at$2.49/10cmx10cm board plus similar shipping?
http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping/im120418003.html

Sunstone, 10-lot of 2"x2" = $145. Not exactly hobbiest friendly.
4pbc = 10-lot would supposedly by $330.

CrossRoads:
So how is that better than a 10-lot at $0.99/5cmx5cm board + $5-8shipping,
http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping/im120418001.html
or a 10-lot at$2.49/10cmx10cm board plus similar shipping?
http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping/im120418003.html

Sunstone, 10-lot of 2"x2" = $145. Not exactly hobbiest friendly.
4pbc = 10-lot would supposedly by $330.

Define "better" in this context. "Better" is a subjective term.

Are itead studio board made in the U.S.?

Re-read my first response. I suggested there were "Made in USA" options for much less $$ than $300 for a single board. 10 boards for $145, I believe, is a better value than 1 board @ $300, yes?

But since you asked.... :smiley:
I also feel it's better since it helps my neighbor feed his family, helps keep Americans employed, off of unemployment & welfare....keeps my money circulating within the U.S. economy (which others could eventually use to hire me or buy things from me).....and ultimately contributing to a lower tax burden, leaving more money for other programs (which may lead to creation of more jobs? Allowing even more people to be able to afford to hire myself, or my neighbors...). And it continues, around, and around. Keeping homes occupied & paid for, keeping my local economy healthy, and making sure money is available (and being used) to make improvements that people need. Instead of China, where they are using the money we send over there to build entire "ghost cities" full of giant buildings, replicas of Manhattan, London, miles & miles of high-rise buildings......that all sit empty because nobody can afford to live in them. It's hard for me to support that kind of economy when everyday I pass a half-dozen homeless people begging me for change & sleeping on the sidewalk.

That's "better" to me. I am just a hardcore supporter of local businesses for similar reasons. I tend to find overall "value" more important than the obvious, bottom line, out-of-pocket, initial "cost".

If all we care about is getting things as cheap as possible, soon that will be all we can afford to care about.

Ok, I re-read, you said "There are places in the U.S. that can make PCBs for much less than that."
I don't see how $145 or $300 is "much less" than iteadstudio which has jumped into the hobby market taken on the task of combining multiple small designs into one panel, electrically tests them, individually packages them, and ships to the US. I have contacted several US board makers, pointing out the US hobby market would support them if they did similar. None are willing to take it on, instead each order is treated individually with minimums on set up charges and amount of material to be used.
I was defining better merely in terms of price, which was how you asked the question.
I agree with all you say re: buy/support American. For hobby market, small time tinkerer, it does not make econimic sense. For business market, I totally agree, buy/sell American and keep it here.

Help in IC procurement

I read your post. It was very helpful. I have decided to outsource pcb manufacturing to China. This makes me own an assembling unit which is cheaper. I found few website where I can get Ic and other components in china, I would like to know few more places where I can get the Ic s like gyro, accelero meter and stuff. This help would really help me in completing my project. I request you to share these information.
Awaiting your reply.

Thankyou