retrolefty:
The easiest method these days to program avr ATtiny processors using the arduino IDE (after modifying the IDE with the required ATtiny support files) is to utilize an inexpensive USBasp hardware programmer ($5) or using an arduino board running the arduinoISP sketch. Then develop your tiny sketch in the IDE and use the IDE file menu option of 'upload using programmer' to burn the sketch into the attached target ATtiny chip. So no bootloader code needed on the tiny.Lefty
you validated my suggestion of using one avr as an isp programmer rather than as communicating with serial after using another programmer to "burn" a bootloader so that the chip can be programmed from a different software interface than the already hardware available ISP interface (bus)
So can the arduino IDE interface with the AVR ISP programmer and burn sketches directly without using the shield as a programming platform ? that would open up the possibility of writing direct from IDE to ATtiny's and any other non native arduino mcu.
My background is trying (trying being the operative word) to program mcu's from the vendors interface and software but not being a programming wizkid I keep stumbling around but I'm used to that freedom which I'm trying to keep to some extent with using the arduino whilst benefiting from the friendlier IDE (and support)