Arduino Forum

Using Arduino => General Electronics => Topic started by: binjoder on Jul 19, 2014, 04:47 pm

Title: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: binjoder on Jul 19, 2014, 04:47 pm
Does arduino capable of output 12V and 150amps PWM signal ??? if not can anyone make me plan of using micro-controller in PWM 150 amps output.. what I mean that I want to use micro-controller in developing PWM circuit that can output  of 30- 150amps/12v . where the amps can be assigned and controlled in the sketch of micro-controller frequency as well.
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: Pelleplutt on Jul 19, 2014, 04:56 pm
No problem, just select the right components and a good layout.

Pelle
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: binjoder on Jul 19, 2014, 05:08 pm
do you mean there is arduino such as uno capable of output 12v 150 amps or should i design it from zero and embed micro-controller and write sketch ?
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: Johnny010 on Jul 19, 2014, 05:12 pm
You can not put anywhere near 150A through an arduino.
You can use the PWM output signal to control some other PWM controller that has a rating of 200A+.

Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: binjoder on Jul 19, 2014, 05:25 pm
I have seen someone on youtube developed PWM modulator using micro-controller where this pwm mod can output up to 150 amps and can control amps through buttons with display. put he not teach he sell them infact I need them for HHO generator where we convert water into gas 
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: Johnny010 on Jul 19, 2014, 05:35 pm
You mean for electrolysis?
What are you planning on doing the with the H2?
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: jremington on Jul 19, 2014, 05:39 pm
Quote
I need them for HHO generator where we convert water into gas
Of course he is selling them. Did you fall for the nonsense that you get more energy out than you put in?
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: Johnny010 on Jul 19, 2014, 05:44 pm

Quote
I need them for HHO generator where we convert water into gas
Of course he is selling them. Did you fall for the nonsense that you get more energy out than you put in?


Listen to this guy. If you are planning on using the H2 as an energy source, your better just putting a hole in the bottom of your car floor and doing a Fred Flintstone.
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: fungus on Jul 19, 2014, 05:56 pm


Quote
I need them for HHO generator where we convert water into gas
Of course he is selling them. Did you fall for the nonsense that you get more energy out than you put in?


Listen to this guy. If you are planning on using the H2 as an energy source, your better just putting a hole in the bottom of your car floor and doing a Fred Flintstone.


Yep. Did you ever stop to think where you're going to get 12V, 150Amps from while your car is running...?

Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: binjoder on Jul 19, 2014, 06:19 pm
12 volts from car battery to pcb , I do have PWM modulator run on car battery 12 and output 150 amps continuously  where I pass it to reactor to get H2 pure and not HHO gas . what I was looking to instead of using pot meter (var resistor) to control duty cycle and amps to be replaced with micro-controller .


Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: Zapro on Jul 19, 2014, 06:22 pm

from car battery


And where do you think the Car battery get it's energy from? The Alternator.

In turn, the Alternator is driven by the Gasoline-engine.

In each conversion, there is energy loss.

It's impossible for the HHO system to work. The only way it would ever work, if Electrolysis gave you more energy, than you used to split the water in the first place.

// Per.
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: michinyon on Jul 20, 2014, 03:28 am
You will need to check whether PWM  will even work for the electrolysis of water.
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: michinyon on Jul 20, 2014, 03:31 am
Quote
I do have PWM modulator run on car battery 12 and output 150 amps continuously 


So,   have you already actually done this ?

If you have already got it to work,   then what exactly is your question ?
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: binjoder on Jul 20, 2014, 03:51 am
yes  it is working although the PWM schematic diagram designed by someone and not me and it doesn't contain micro controller

now what I want is to convert it to 100% PWM micro-controller design, that capable of varying the current (amperage) and frequency (duty cycle ). ( micro-controlled PWM 0-150 amps , 12V output) , where current and frequency should be  controlled in the IDE software.  is there way to do this ?????????????
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: MarkT on Jul 21, 2014, 03:55 am
Yes it can be done, something like MIC4422 driving an array of high current MOSFETs.

But thinking you can get energy for free is a delusion.
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: fungus on Jul 21, 2014, 11:06 am
Maybe he thinks he can sell them.

Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: DuncanC on Jul 21, 2014, 05:18 pm

Does arduino capable of output 12V and 150amps PWM signal ??? if not can anyone make me plan of using micro-controller in PWM 150 amps output.. what I mean that I want to use micro-controller in developing PWM circuit that can output  of 30- 150amps/12v . where the amps can be assigned and controlled in the sketch of micro-controller frequency as well.


Let's make sure we understand each other.

The Arduino is a low power device. It has several PWM outputs at 5 volts and around 20-40 mA.

It cannot output any more than that. Period.

However, you should be able to build an amplifier circuit that will take the logic-level outputs of an Arduino and turn them to high power 12 volt output. Some high power MOSFET transistors with very low internal resistance.

Varying the output current is also possible. You'd need to build a current limited power supply that can be digitally controlled.

I'm not an EE, I'm a software guy. I can't design these circuits myself, but I know enough to know basically how they would work, and how to search for the correct information.

Now, as to the purpose of your project: You're looking to split water into hydrogen and oxygen? Bear in mind that every step in a system like this has some amount of inefficiency. (According to the second law of thermodynamics, converting energy from one form to another always results in some losses to heat.)
A car's gas engine is quite inefficient. It only turns about 20% of the energy in Gasoline into useful work if I remember correctly. The rest is lost as heat.

If you want to split water using a car, you have to first burn gas and convert the energy into rotational energy, at a huge loss. Then you have to convert that rotational energy into electricity using the car's alternator. (Again at a pretty substantial loss.) Then you need to switch and manipulate that electricity to vary the current and pulse width, with MORE loss. Finally, you use that energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. That part is fairly efficient, but does still have losses to heat.

You will only get a single-digit percentage of the energy in gasoline stored in your output hydrogen. Most of the energy will be lost.

Another problem:

A car's alternator is not designed to put out 150+ amps of power continuously. You will likely overheat and burn out the alternator in a fairly short period if you do run it at that level of load constantly. In fact I doubt if a car's alternator is even rate for a peak current of 150 amps. That's a LOT of juice. A car's battery can put of that kind of current for brief periods, but not continuously.
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: MarkT on Jul 21, 2014, 05:33 pm
Splitting water with electricity isn't great efficiency either.  High power PWM is
efficient though, >95% isn't implausible.

Thinking about it PWM won't work either, as you get side-reactions if the voltage is too
high (even for a short time).

So you need a buck-converter topology, an inductor capable of 150A at efficient PWM
frequencies is going to have to be wound yourself using litz wire I reckon.

Since the potential to split water is about 1.2V, think many 1000's of amps for electrolysis
on a scale to help power a car - in practice stacks of cells are put in series so the current
is lower and the voltage higher.  Perhaps you just need 8 or so cells in series from 12V?
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: Pelleplutt on Jul 21, 2014, 06:15 pm
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-OBwXKthY
2. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-assemble-a-HHO-Generator-and-why-it-works/

1. Are Mythbuster always right?
2 Do not belive all on the net!

The theory is it should help the gasolin burn faster.

I think it's BS

Pelle
Title: Re: PWM 12V 150Amps output signal using arduino is it possible ????
Post by: polymorph on Jul 21, 2014, 06:21 pm
I seem to recall that the maximum efficiency of electrolysis of water is only about 70%. And that the maximum theoretical efficiency of the Carnot cycle in an engine is just under 70%, but the actual efficiency in modern engines is considerably lower.

So already 50% of the power is gone. IE, 2hp (about 1500W) from the alternator nets about 1hp additional power at the engine. Then the alternator is not 100% efficient. The battery is not 100% efficient at storing and releasing power.

Even if everything was 100% efficient, you'd have broken even.

BTW, there is no such thing as "HHO gas". It is H2 and O2 mixed.