Arduino Forum

Using Arduino => General Electronics => Topic started by: cbullock on Dec 03, 2017, 05:20 pm

Title: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: cbullock on Dec 03, 2017, 05:20 pm
I figure this should me simple but using 2 grounding rods and possibly a hall effect sensor would it be possible to pick up  electron flow in the earth? Granted this is highly contested in main stay science that the Sun and planets all are in a huge electric circuit and what I am looking for is would an Arduino  be able to pick up the fain signals that would possibly be there?
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: Boardburner2 on Dec 03, 2017, 06:58 pm
any electron flow will be swamped by ground currents from the utility electrical supplies.
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: DVDdoug on Dec 03, 2017, 07:18 pm
Use a multimeter first.     Do you know how to measure voltage & current with a multimeter?

Then if you want to use the Arduino, test your Arduino set-up with a battery.

You can measure voltage  between the rods.    No current will flow until you have a complete circuit (http://www.oswego.edu/~dristle/PHY_206_powerpoints/Electric_Circuits10.9t.pdf) so you'll have to run a wire between the rods or connect the ammeter between the rods to complete the circuit.

The Arduino can measure voltage (0-5V*) relative to it's ground.**  See the Analog Read Serial Example.

You can measure current by measuring the voltage across a resistor (Ohm's Law) on the ground-side, again relative to the Arduino's ground.

If you measure anything, it's probably electro-magnetic radiation from surrounding power lines or from radio/TV stations.     

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Granted this is highly contested in main stay science that the Sun and planets all are in a huge electric circuit
There could be a charge (a voltage difference) between the objects in the solar system, I don't know.  But obviously, there is no connection through a vacuum, so there is no "circuit" and no current flow.     ...When you get a large-enough charge in the clouds, the atmosphere "breaks-down" and you get current flow (lightening).


* The Arduino can be damaged by voltages greater than 5V, but you're not going to get that much voltage.

** The Arduino's ground doesn't have to be connected to earth ground.    But, in many applications the limitation of measurement relative to ground is a problem.   (A multimeter doesn't have this limitation.)
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Dec 03, 2017, 07:29 pm
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would it be possible to pick up  electron flow in the earth?
No.

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Granted this is highly contested in main stay science that the Sun and planets all are in a huge electric circuit
Rubbish.

Get an amplifier and two forks. Connect each fork to an input and ground of the amplifier and plunge them into the earth as far apart as you can. Then you can listen to the electric currents in the ground.
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: jremington on Dec 03, 2017, 07:31 pm
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this is highly contested in main stay science that the Sun and planets all are in a huge electric circuit
Not contested at all, the idea of a "circuit" is simply nonsense. But the sun does emit charged particles, called the solar wind.
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: cbullock on Dec 03, 2017, 10:18 pm
Granted what I am almost doing is creating what the use in geology as an ERT. The difference though is we are not sending out electrical signals but seeing if any exist.  I do believe first hand that electrical currents do exist. I believe that the earth has an eltro-magneto  resonance that ties into the solaewind and all. I would just like to use an Arduino  to pick these up. Granted the  specs though for the Arduino  is what worries me seeing these might be really weak signals. True adding in amplifiers might be the only option. Let me ask this,  the sky has a electrical disturbance  with wifi signals and radio signal and all. Just pick up an EMF tester and you will see unless you live in a Faraday cage. ( what ever instrument is used will more than likely be in a Faraday  type cage.). Secondly saying something is non-scenes  shows you are not open to finding new stuff. For example flat earth we all would hopefully believe is round in nature, but I am open to believe if any flat earther gives me good evidencing showing I was wrong in thinking I will continue to believe earth is round.
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: aarg on Dec 03, 2017, 11:42 pm
I do believe first hand that electrical currents do exist. I believe that the earth has an eltro-magneto  resonance that ties into the solaewind and all
Aha. So what was the first hand experience that convinced you of this? I have read about voltages due to shifting of plates of rock that are slightly piezoelectric. Why do you believe in this electro-magnetic resonance, was it something you observed or read about?
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: aarg on Dec 03, 2017, 11:43 pm
Let me ask this,  the sky has a electrical disturbance  with wifi signals and radio signal and all. Just pick up an EMF tester and you will see unless you live in a Faraday cage. ( what ever instrument is used will more than likely be in a Faraday  type cage.).
I don't believe you got to a question here.
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Dec 04, 2017, 12:04 am
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Secondly saying something is non-scenes  shows you are not open to finding new stuff.
Ha, their is a name for people like you. Gullible nutter.

Beware of an open mind their are lots of people willing to fill it with rubbish.

What you are saying is clearly rubbish, which you would know if you bothered to get yourself a bit of education. Science has most of these concepts wrapped up and has found no evedance for the eyewash you have come up with.

Sorry but we deal in facts here. So run away and tell everyone that we are trying to suppress you.
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: jremington on Dec 04, 2017, 12:35 am
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I do believe first hand that electrical currents do exist.
Good start! Indeed, electrical currents were powering the device you used to post on this very forum.
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: JohnRob on Dec 04, 2017, 08:49 pm
Measuring ground current flow is an ambitious project with regards to the instrumentation likely needed.

However if you want to give it a try I have some thoughts / suggestions.



These are not "instructions" but some items you might consider to obtain some possibly useful data.  Quite honestly I think the level of instrumentation you would need to get viable results is beyond someone asking this question on a "General Electronics" forum.

As for the naysayers, all i can say is; technically it is impossible to prove something does not exist.




Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: MarkDerbyshire on Dec 04, 2017, 08:59 pm
I don't know what country you live in but here in the UK the Distribution Companies use the Neutral as a return path for the Earth back to the supply transformer in some installations.  The Neutral is ground at regular intervals along it's run.  This is called a PME System.  Other installations use the Armour as the return path and other do not supply a return Earth so we have to drive a rod into the ground to supply an Earth.

FYI the resistance values (Ze) are a Max of 0.35 Ohmns for PME (TN-C-S), Max 0.8 Ohms for a separate Earth (TNS) and a recommend Maximum value of 200 Ohms for and earth Rod (TT) for reliability.

Ze is the value of the circuit made by the Live Conductor and the Earth to the Supply Transformer and back

I am just mentioning this as you will pick up readings from these supplies
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Dec 04, 2017, 11:12 pm
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As for the naysayers, all i can say is; technically it is impossible to prove something does not exist.
That is just populist rubbish. Of course it is possible to find out that something does not exist. Let me give you an example of an experiment that proved the either did not exist. The Michilson Morley experiment. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson%E2%80%93Morley_experiment (https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson%E2%80%93Morley_experiment)
You are mixing up with not being able to prove a negitave which is altogether another matter.

I think maybe I am the only one here who has actually experimented with ground communications.

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If there are currents running in the ground, and you want to measure them I would assume your electrodes would have to be very deep in the earth and the first 4 feet or so would be insulated.
Rubbish you can pick them up with a ground spike of six inches are so. See reply #3.

You can prove that the statement:-
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the Sun and planets all are in a huge electric circuit
Is clearly bananas, because while the solar wind will flow from the sun outwards their is no return path which would be required for a circuit.
 
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: Boardburner2 on Dec 04, 2017, 11:20 pm
I am just mentioning this as you will pick up readings from these supplies
This is what i meant in post 2.

In some locations mainly urban or industrial it is possible to drive spikes into the ground a few metres apart  and get enough current flow to light an incandescent bulb.

One project i was distantly involved with required an earth survey.
The results were unexpected , bloke doing the survey said this was precisely why these surveys are done.

believe that the earth has an eltro-magneto  resonance that ties into the solaewind and all. I would just like to
This was mentioned in #4

The earths magnetic field protects us from the solar wind by deflecting the wind.
Google on Northern lights.
Without it i suspect that the only living species on Earth would be fish. 
Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: DaveEvans on Dec 04, 2017, 11:35 pm
As a semi-/un-related aside:

About 15 years ago I visited the US Navy's two ELF sites in Michigan and Wisconsin.  Their antennas looked exactly like power lines, and they used a ground return.  Initially, they (reportedly) killed a few deer at the ends of the runs due to high voltages between the hoofs, so subsequently they'd "survey" the voltages a human footstep apart and adjust the grounds (there were many of them) to be sure they wouldn't kill people (or critters).  Wikipedia told me that the ELF facilities  were decommissioned in 2004. 

Wikipedia also produced this interesting tidbit:

"Some radio monitoring hobbyists record ELF signals using antennas ranging in size from eighteen inch active antennas up to several thousand feet in length taking advantage of fences, highway guard rails, and even decommissioned railroad tracks, and play them back at higher speeds to more easily observe natural low frequency fluctuations in the Earth's electromagnetic field. Increasing the playback speed increases the pitch, so that it can be brought into the audio frequency range for audibility."

Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: Paul_KD7HB on Dec 04, 2017, 11:40 pm
This is what i meant in post 2.

In some locations mainly urban or industrial it is possible to drive spikes into the ground a few metres apart  and get enough current flow to light an incandescent bulb.

One project i was distantly involved with required an earth survey.
The results were unexpected , bloke doing the survey said this was precisely why these surveys are done.

This was mentioned in #4

The earths magnetic field protects us from the solar wind by deflecting the wind.
Google on Northern lights.
Without it i suspect that the only living species on Earth would be fish.  
Years ago I had a friend, dead, now, who was an engineer for the local electric power company. He told of having to investigate ground faults at electrical sub stations. Even wearing heavy rubber boots, he had to walk with tiny steps and feet close together to keep from being electrocuted from the potential difference between his feet. He had special tools to open the gate to the substation because of electrified fence.

Also the Dalles dam on the Columbia River can send power to Los Angeles via DC converter stations. The original design was to use 500,000 volts DC and use the ground for the return. Public fear and complaints when this was tested caused it to never be implemented. Every pipe in the ground, wells, and gas pipes, etc. all had hundreds of volts impressed from end to end, even when buried.

Paul

Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: JohnRob on Dec 05, 2017, 12:04 am
Regarding my response to the OP,  My goal was not to comment on whether or not I agreed with the basic tenant.  But to help them should they decide to continue.  Besides, I'm sure it they decide to pursue this there will be a lot learned.

I'm located in the US.  Our power systems are distributed as 3Ø.  Domestic systems have a neutral generated at the step down transformer and grounded to a local earth rod.   No current is meant to be carried by the ground (under normal conditions).

I was involved in some equipment to be used in EU(rope).  At that time I was under the impression the typical 240 VAC systems carried both a neutral and ground.  Hence the acronym PME (Protective Multiple Earthing).  But I could be wrong.

My reason for suggesting deep ground electrodes was based on an guess that surface currents are more  affected by the power grid than deeper electrodes.  I have no data to suggest this is true hence my statement of thoughts to consider.




Quote
What you are saying is clearly rubbish, which you would know if you bothered to get yourself a bit of education. Science has most of these concepts wrapped up and has found no evedance for the eyewash you have come up with
Not worth a comment

Title: Re: Using Arduino to measure current or electron flow in earth
Post by: TomGeorge on Dec 06, 2017, 01:40 pm
Hi,
I calibrate some equipment designed to look for earth potentials and check ground resistance.

Some of our water boards require that their contractors have these devices, and test any pipe and gnd that they work on "onsite".

Plumbers to check for safety reasons, electricians to check for SWER (Single Wire Earth Return) ground conductivity.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=515053.0;attach=236306)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=515053.0;attach=236308)

Tom.. :)