Arduino Forum

Community => Website and Forum => Topic started by: lcipriani on Nov 22, 2018, 05:27 pm

Title: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: lcipriani on Nov 22, 2018, 05:27 pm
Hello Arduino Users,

we are going to improve many areas of our systems and Arduino Playground (http://playground.arduino.cc) now has some widely known issues, specifically:



Because of all these reasons we decided to have playground.arduino.cc as a read only website. To let the user write their own content and share with other we invite them to add tutorials in https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub
The best and most viewed articles of the Arduino Playground site were already been migrated in our main website under the Tutorial section https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/HomePage

The website will remain visible but will become read only by the end of the year, do not be scared, we will keep it online and the content is not going to be removed unless obviously spam or clearly wrong. Everything else will remain available.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 22, 2018, 06:11 pm
Thanks for the update.

Also nice to see the new user category implemented.
Now we can easily see you and take what you say with much more confidence.

Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Delta_G on Nov 22, 2018, 06:43 pm
I like this idea, but please leave some mechanism by which errors can be corrected and information can be updated.  We get a ton of posts here on the forum related to stuff in the playground that is wrong, misleading, or even dangerous and all we can say is that we have no way to change any of it and no way to reach anyone who can. 
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Robin2 on Nov 22, 2018, 10:24 pm
but please leave some mechanism by which errors can be corrected and information can be updated.
I agree,

The mechanism is already in place - if only the Arduino developers would regularly participate in this section of the Forum.

...R
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Nov 23, 2018, 03:50 am
A lot of links and content will be broken as soon as we will switch to HTTPS only
Then the community will fix the breakage.

We had/have a lot of spammers writing there
I just don't see evidence of this. A few years ago (http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=308747), the Playground was made read only as a temporary measure, supposedly in reaction to spam. I went through the entire edit history of the Playground at that time and reverted every spam edit. Although there certainly was spam, I only found 74 cases in the 9 years of edit history. I just went through the last 1.5 years of edits and didn't find a single spam edit, which indicates to me that the captcha solution you implemented is working fine. I did find a few harmful edits but these were not malicious, but caused by confused people. So we have ~74 spams over 12 years, which the Arduino community has handled. I don't see this as a valid reason.

There are no moderators
At the resolution of the last time you tried to make the Playground read-only, you had added an RSS feed at my request and I used that to monitor every single edit to the Playground as soon as it happened. Some time later, the RSS feed stopped working. I reported this and it was assigned to you:
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/6587 (https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/6587)
but no action was taken after over a year. This has resulted in me no longer monitoring the Playground so closely. If you think not having a moderator is such a problem, why didn't you fix the RSS feed?

pretty often there are either wrong information in some articles or pages sponsoring clones/low quality products, articles not related to Arduino
There will always be some bad content in a public wiki. I really don't see a huge amount of this in the Playground. Whenever people have reported problems with the content I have quickly fixed it. As for "pages sponsoring clones/low quality products", if that's not allowed then why isn't it mentioned anywhere in the Playground? In fact, you even have an official section of the Playground "Sources for Electronic Parts (https://playground.arduino.cc/Main/Resources)".

Some malicious users also used it to claim they are affiliated in some way with the official Arduino company just because they wrote an article there
I've never seen anything like that. I don't see how it would be an effective ploy.

Because of all these reasons we decided to have playground.arduino.cc as a read only website.
So it seems to me the only valid reason you've given is:
Almost impossible to maintain/update fix security issues
Well, as webmaster, isn't that your job? Instead of ruining a valuable community resource, why not find out how to fix the problems? Maybe it will take some work to figure it out, but compare that to how much ongoing work it will be for the Arduino team to be responsible for every correction that needs to be made to all the Playground pages. You already can't keep up with all the suggested changes to the documentation so imagine how it will be when the huge number of Playground pages are added on.

Because of all these reasons we decided to have playground.arduino.cc as a read only website.
This makes me very sad. I have put a ton of work into the Arduino Playground, as have many others.

To let the user write their own content and share with other we invite them to add tutorials in https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub
The Project Hub is in no way a replacement for the Playground.

Everything else will remain available.
A read only Playground has far less value and will lose more and more as time goes on. It's very useful to have a centralized location where the community can collaborate on documentation and the Playground is the only thing of that type we have. I truly believe that the expense for the Arduino organization of maintaining this resource is more than paid back by its benefits.

I like this idea
What do you like about it?

We get a ton of posts here on the forum related to stuff in the playground that is wrong, misleading, or even dangerous
I think that's a serious exaggeration. I'm always on the lookout for those sorts of posts and they're not very common.

all we can say is that we have no way to change any of it and no way to reach anyone who can.  
Currently, we can easily change it. If the Playground is made read-only, we will be stuck with the incredibly inefficient and slow system we use to get changes made to the reference pages. The new Language Reference system is good but lcipriani has already stated that will not be extended even to all the official documentation so I'm sure it has no chance of being done for the Playground.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: mastrolinux on Nov 23, 2018, 09:22 am
Hello,

Yes, keeping things secure is our job and securing something insecure by design is really hard. That said even recently we had to recover content from backups just because someone changed the whole home page.
I never said we are not going to implement a solution similar to the reference system and we are already providing good alternatives. What is limiting the users in using Arduino Project Hub for the same purpose?
I cannot see advantages in having two different systems doing the same thing but one is secure, stable and integrated in our websites much better than the Playground.
I am happy and thankful you fixed most of the spam editing but we cannot relay on volunteers only, we should have someone in our company reviewing the content, that is what we do have already in projecthub.
For us to review and edit playground is really an hard job due to technical limitations of the system and is impossible to make it nice on mobile which is a must for me in 2018.
I know there are some disadvantages in making it read only but I mainly see advantages in using the other systems we already have or invest in having a similar solution like the reference flow instead of trying to fix a legacy and unsecure system. If I have to invest each single dollar for a web content system I would invest them in making the other platforms better than fixing a wrongly designed system.

About the captcha, yes it works in EU and USA, and many other countries but prevents all our Chinese users to even access the platform, so we are making unhappy 1/3 of our users just because of an old system. For the SSO we have a solution but for content editing is impossible to provide a good alternative for the Chinese users who are prevented in changing our website. This is really bad.

That said we are open to give access to a limited number of people to edit the pages even after the change to read only mode and fix old broken content, and I would be happy to add you for sure.

Let me known if that sounds good for you.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Nov 28, 2018, 10:18 am
we had to recover content from backups just because someone changed the whole home page
Why from backups? You can just go into the edit history and click the "Restore" button. If the RSS feed was working I would have taken care of that problem in no time. That change wasn't done maliciously. It was just some clueless person who didn't understand how the Playground works. That's not a security issue, it's just an unavoidable downside of wikis. That sort of thing happens all the time on Wikipedia too. The key is for there to be more people making beneficial edits than people making unbeneficial edits. There are far more beneficial edits to the Playground so on average the content continues to improve.

I never said we are not going to implement a solution similar to the reference system
Not for the Playground, but you did say it for other content:
No we do not think allowing editing of the whole website is something useful for both the Arduino Company and Community but we want to open as many places as possible if it makes sense to have contribution from the community. If you have any suggestion about what are the most relevant sections in your opinion to be opened then let me know and we will evaluate.
My assumption is that if you're not going to do that for all the standard website content, then you certainly wouldn't do so for the Playground content. I'd be happy if I was wrong. I still prefer the Playground to remain a standard Wiki, but editing it via pull requests to a GitHub repository would be second-best, as long as that repository was actively maintained.

What is limiting the users in using Arduino Project Hub for the same purpose?
I cannot see advantages in having two different systems doing the same thing but one is secure, stable and integrated in our websites much better than the Playground.
Because the Arduino Project Hub is something completely different. That's like saying "Why do we need Wikipedia when we have tumblr?" The characteristic of the Playground that makes it valuable is that anyone can edit/create any content. You can't do that on the Project Hub. The Project Hub is also specifically focused on projects, but much of the Playground content is not about projects. The Project Hub is fine, but it's not a replacement for the Playground by any stretch of the imagination. The arduino/Arduino repository's wiki (https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/wiki) would be a closer replacement, but 95% of the Playground content would not be appropriate for that wiki, since it has a different focus of advanced documentation for developers.

we cannot relay on volunteers only, we should have someone in our company reviewing the content
I don't understand why you think that's necessary. The volunteers have done a decent job of it for years now. I have always maintained that the content of the Playground is the responsibility of the Arduino community. The only responsibility Arduino should have is the infrastructure (because the community don't have the ability to work on that) and hosting it.

For us to review and edit playground is really an hard job due to technical limitations of the system and is impossible to make it nice on mobile which is a must for me in 2018.
The system is certainly not perfect, and I would like to see it improved, but I still think having a publicly editable wiki with an imperfect system is far better than having a read-only wiki, which will probably still have the same issues. I just don't see this as a valid justification.

invest in having a similar solution like the reference flow
I think that's a reasonable alternative, but this is the first that possibility has been presented.

About the captcha, yes it works in EU and USA, and many other countries but prevents all our Chinese users to even access the platform, so we are making unhappy 1/3 of our users just because of an old system. For the SSO we have a solution but for content editing is impossible to provide a good alternative for the Chinese users who are prevented in changing our website. This is really bad.
That is very unfortunate but I still don't think it's a valid justification to shut it down for 3/3 of the users just because it doesn't work for 1/3 of the users. Also, I don't even think the Captcha was so essential. You could solve that problem by removing the captcha and fixing the RSS feed so that I can quickly catch the occasional spam edit.

That said we are open to give access to a limited number of people to edit the pages even after the change to read only mode and fix old broken content, and I would be happy to add you for sure.
You can do that, but it doesn't change my objections to this. If I still had access, I would make edits to resolve issues that people report with the Playground content (as I already do). However, I probably wouldn't make the effort to improve the Playground anymore on my own initiative, since I think it being read-only destroys much of the value of the resource and I'd rather put my limited volunteer time to more worthy causes.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Jantje on Dec 06, 2018, 04:29 pm
I have been in some fights with people forcing their view/agenda on the playground.
I never saw any Arduino action so when I read
Quote from: : mastrolinux
we cannot relay on volunteers only, we should have someone in our company reviewing the content
I think why would it be any better there?

I also wonder... what if these malicious people change things about 1 minute before closing time? Will you guys clean up?
Och wait .... the newbie assigned to the clean up probably doesn't even understand what it is all about ...

In other words: If you plan to freeze; freeze now.

I have done some contributions to the playground but I will not contribute to https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub. Seriously content does not require a nice picture, it does require structure.

It comes to me that arduino changed from a organisation that enabled people to learn and do something with electronics to a company selling boards not caring about anyone learning or doing something with them.

For me this is another sad day in Arduino land.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: zoomx on Dec 12, 2018, 11:20 am
I agree with Pert. Projecthub will be like Instructables or similar site, is project oriented, not a Wiki.
One can create example projects like in Playground but they will be among many much others projects, difficult to find.

Maybe in Projecthub you can create an area for learning projects.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: cndg on Dec 29, 2018, 07:45 am
Other sites have done this, and IT IS A HORRIBLE IDEA - because you end up with this problem:-



STILL THERE, but now with no way to fix or remove it anymore.

You end up being indexed "top in google" with wrong and bogus answers forever.

PLEASE - if you go "read only", delete the entire site.  It's better for everyone to start-over with usable correct info, than for legacy "wrong" to live forever.

Alternatively - just fix the problems you've got.  None of them seem hard.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Dec 29, 2018, 08:42 am
STILL THERE, but now with no way to fix or remove it anymore.
I understand this concern, but I don't think the potential problem warrants your suggestion:
delete the entire site
I'd like to think that if Arduino makes the Playground read-only, they will take responsibility for the maintenance of that content. If given write access, I'm willing to help with that. I monitor the forum and the bug tracker and, for the last few years, I have already been editing the Playground to address any issues with the Playground reported either place. The exception is when the reported issue is on some very technical subject and I don't have enough knowledge to assess or correct. In the event the Playground was made read-only, I would hope that one of the Arduino employees with more advanced knowledge on that subject would step in and make any necessary corrections.

Alternatively - just fix the problems you've got.  None of them seem hard.
Of course I'm 1000% in agreement with this. I suspect that, in the long run, the time Arduino would spend maintaining all this new content they chose to "own" by making the Playground read-only would exceed the time it takes to solve any security problems posed by the publicly editable Playground. It's not clear to me what these security issues are so it's difficult for me to get a feel for what might be involved in fixing them.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: westfw on Dec 29, 2018, 09:38 am
I wouldn't mind the playground becoming, say, yet another github repository.  That seems to be a nice mid-way point between a Wild Wiki and a Closed site; you can submit "issues" to report problems (which is much better than the current situation, I think), and pull-requests if you have actual edits.

We already have the "stale info" problem.  Especially since people come along and add their info, and then lose interest/disappear, leaving behind an un-maintained and un-owned page that no one feels responsible for (and/or no one feels entitled or knowledgeable enough to actually change.)

Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: ChrisTenone on Dec 31, 2018, 02:24 am
Nothing says it can't be transferred/recreated as an independent (of Arduino.cc) website.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Dec 31, 2018, 02:27 am
True, but that's a huge task. Are you volunteering to do it?
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: ChrisTenone on Dec 31, 2018, 05:31 am
True, but that's a huge task. Are you volunteering to do it?
Do it? I'll need to do a bit of learning first.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Dec 31, 2018, 06:32 am
MastroLinux suggested (http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?msg=3955710) that Arduino might set up a system similar to how the Language Reference pages now work with the content in a GitHub repository (https://github.com/arduino/reference-en), where it can be edited by the community, then published to the Arduino website. If that is actually going to happen, then I don't think we need a 3rd party version of the Playground. However, I'm still very skeptical that will ever happen. It would be really helpful if we could get a firm official answer on whether that is something Arduino is going to commit to doing, and if so, what a realistic timeline is. It's been 1.5 years since Massimo Banzi announced (https://groups.google.com/a/arduino.cc/d/msg/developers/oyt_c5wePg8/_CWGyAG6CQAJ) that the official library reference content was moving to GitHub, but I haven't seen any work done towards that. It's hard for me to believe that the Playground project would be given higher priority (if any at all).


Probably the quickest path for starting a 3rd party Playground would be to set up the PmWiki software currently used by the Playground on a separate website:
http://pmwiki.org/ (http://pmwiki.org/)
After that, there should be some way to easily import the contents of the Playground. It might be necessary to coordinate with someone from Arduino to get access to the raw content.

Based on my experience with the Playground, I'm actually not a big fan of PmWiki. The edit history is just terrible. I'm also not crazy about the markup. It would be much better if we could use Markdown, which anyone using GitHub, Stack Exchange, etc. will already be familiar with. I suppose it's possible that PmWiki has been much improved since whatever outdated version Arduino is using, or maybe there are modifications that can be made to improve it. However, converting the content from PmWiki to some other platform is likely to be a much bigger job (though perhaps not so bad if we found some magic converter program that does an acceptable job).

The big question is how this 3rd party Playground will be hosted. If some random community member grabs a domain and hosting plan and sets this up, what guarantee do we have that the bills will continue to be paid and necessary infrastructure maintenance work will be done? This is an issue because I don't want to do a lot of work contributing to a resource that's going to disappear after a couple years. That is why Arduino is the best organization to host this resource. I believe that Arduino does benefit from community-generated documentation.

I have actually given the idea of starting a 3rd party version of the Playground quite a bit of thought since this announcement was made. Hosting it on GitHub seems like a good option. Public GitHub repositories are free so there is no concern of paying for hosting. If the owners did end up abandoning the project without passing on the torch, it's simple enough for someone to fork the repo. It is unfortunate that a GitHub account is required to contribute, but a significant number of the potential contributors already have one and it's quite easy for people who don't to set one up. I've noticed an amazing lack of spam/abuse/vandalism on GitHub. I considered a GitHub Wiki, but that feature is surprisingly very poorly done. In the end, I think a standard GitHub repository would be better. The potential issue with that option is that it MUST be actively administrated. Valid PRs must be merged quickly, otherwise people will not be motivated to make the effort to contribute. It's a shame you can't create GitHub repos that give everyone push access (as is the case with public GitHub wikis). I think the key would be for the repository to have a lot of administrators with a liberal policy about accepting PRs. The big problem is the work of transferring the Playground content to the GitHub repository. I know there are some tools that will convert the HTML output of the Playground to Markdown (perhaps pandoc (https://pandoc.org)). I also see there is a PmWiki "cookbook" that allows PmWiki pages to be shown as Markup output:
https://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MarkdownOutput (https://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MarkdownOutput)
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: ChrisTenone on Dec 31, 2018, 07:04 am
Being an oldTimer, I'd be looking at the Frontier (UIserLand) software I built my old websites with - they had an Edit button so users could edit any page. I don't know about security so that would be my issue, but I'm willing to tackle that when it's an issue.

Like I said, Feb 09 is my target date.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Dec 31, 2018, 07:24 am
An essential feature is to be able to clearly see the edit history and revert to any point in that history. The Playground does have such an edit history, but it doesn't at all do a good job of showing a "diff", which makes it very difficult to review edits to make sure they were beneficial. Wikipedia and GitHub provide a very nice diff of edits.

I also think it's very useful to be able to get notifications of edits. For a short period, the Playground did allow you to get notifications of all edits via a RSS feed. Email would probably be better for most people since I don't think RSS is very commonly used anymore (I still really like it). Wikipedia allows you to watch specific pages. GitHub allows you to watch repositories, which allows you to get an email for every pull request, issue report, or comment in those threads. You can't get emails for edits to a GitHub wiki, but you will see them for any repo you're watching in your GitHub feed.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Dec 31, 2018, 07:33 am
How would you address my concern regarding long term stability of the website?

I've seen this really derail some communities. It's just not viable to have one person with complete control over a resource like that (the "bus factor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor)"). People disappear or die without any warning.

Then you have the issue of funding. If one person is paying out of pocket, how can we be sure they'll continue to do so. If it's funded by ads or donations, what happens if they fall short? If it's a community resource and there is income in excess of requirements, what happens to that money?
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: ChrisTenone on Dec 31, 2018, 07:48 pm
Here's my thoughts:

Funding could come as voluntary contributions from users of the site. As many of us will be on fixed incomes, we would need to put some effort into fundraising. I believe we could afford this valuable resource though.

Stability - I imagine a group of curators would manage the content, while folks with technical expertise would keep it all up and running. I have no doubt that the a.cc community has the necessary brain-power to do it.

Software - My web-mastering experience is a decade or so old, so I'll need reeducated. I have served large websites using Frontier software, which seems to fit this bill exactly, however I do not know the state of that software, nor the company that made it. I've also used Apache/database with live pages, and that would also work. And of course there is Wikimedia, which would simplify construction.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: terryking228 on Jan 16, 2019, 06:02 pm
Hi Everyone,

Just found this thread...

I'm for a separate, user-supported WIKI that follows the original Playground intent.

I looked at many possibilities when I had to move/recreate https://ArduinoInfo.Info (https://ArduinoInfo.Info) and I finally figured WikiPedia was highly likely to continue and have it's base software maintained.

It's based on MediaWiki (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki).

I would love to have all the Playground content on ArduinoInfo.Info. I may just grab it...  

I will be happy to either have this type content contributed to ArduinoInfo.Info or I will happily pay to have a parallel MediaWiki site created, if others would work on building and maintaining it.

Let's figure out something that will work. And DO it.  

UPDATE: I just tried editing the Playground and I WAS able to do it.  Whazzup??
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Delta_G on Jan 21, 2019, 05:23 pm
Quote
We get a ton of posts here on the forum related to stuff in the playground that is wrong, misleading, or even dangerous
Quote
I think that's a serious exaggeration. I'm always on the lookout for those sorts of posts and they're not very common.
I know the mistake in the diagram on this page has been mentioned at least a dozen times since I first started on this forum.  Yet nobody has done anything to fix it.  And each time it has surfaced it has been someone who can't get the tutorial to work because they are following that erroneous diagram. 

https://www.arduino.cc/en/tutorial/ShiftOut (https://www.arduino.cc/en/tutorial/ShiftOut)



https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=592194.0 (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=592194.0)
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Jan 21, 2019, 06:27 pm
That tutorial is not part of the Playground. It is part of the read-only official documentation in the Arduino website. I guarantee you that if it was in the Playground it would have been fixed years ago.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Delta_G on Jan 21, 2019, 07:27 pm
That tutorial is not part of the Playground. It is part of the read-only official documentation in the Arduino website. I guarantee you that if it was in the Playground it would have been fixed years ago.
OK, so I don't keep up with all the little divisions.  It's all Arduino to me.  It's still broken and nobody seems to be concerned with fixing it.  And I think that blocking off access to more areas just results in more stuff like this.  Maybe if someone was taking care of things.  But as long as something like this gets reported over and over and nobody can seem to come up with any idea on how it could be fixed then I'm not going to assume that things will be any better running any other part of the website in the same way.   

Sure you may be on top of it now.  But what happens when you get busy or move on. 

"Unless someone like you cares an awful lot, nothing is going to get better.  It's not."   ~The Lorax
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Jan 21, 2019, 10:36 pm
It's still broken and nobody seems to be concerned with fixing it.
You're concerned with fixing it. I'm concerned with fixing it. Grumpy_Mike is concerned with fixing it. That doesn't make a bit of difference because none of us have the power to edit it. Right now, at least there is a good bit of content we the Arduino community have the power to improve and update at will. If the Playground is made read-only, all that content moves more towards the situation with the ShiftOut tutorial.

Sure you may be on top of it now.  But what happens when you get busy or move on.
As long as it stays publicly-editable, the Playground is not about me. Even if I've moved on, anyone is free to do it.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Delta_G on Jan 22, 2019, 12:17 am
You're concerned with fixing it. I'm concerned with fixing it. Grumpy_Mike is concerned with fixing it. That doesn't make a bit of difference because none of us have the power to edit it. Right now, at least there is a good bit of content we the Arduino community have the power to improve and update at will. If the Playground is made read-only, all that content moves more towards the situation with the ShiftOut tutorial.
As long as it stays publicly-editable, the Playground is not about me. Even if I've moved on, anyone is free to do it.
It sounds like we're in total agreement here.   
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 22, 2019, 10:45 am
OK, so I don't keep up with all the little divisions.  It's all Arduino to me.
Same for me. I hardly ever look at the Playground - I have no idea what is in it and no immediate inclination to find out. How much use does it get compared to this Forum?

I agree with the idea that the Playground should remain as a user-editable WiKi. But if the Powers-That-Be decide to change that it does not automatically mean that some other user-editable system MUST be created. There is always a great danger that experts feel that solutions must be implemented just because the expert knows how to do so.

I would much prefer if the Official-Arduino-Folks would provide proper support for their system (this system) and be visible and approachable while doing so.

I do NOT want to see some Third Party system emerge which has the effect of diluting interest in and support for this Forum. I have no intention of participating in two systems.

There is already too much fragmentation within this Forum and every day there are several wrongly posted questions. Having another system would just add confusion on top of confusion. We are all the time trying to stop people double posting. Don't give them another opportunity to do so.

Less is more.

...R
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Jantje on Jan 31, 2019, 12:29 am
1 month after the "lock date" I can still edit the playground.
I seriously wonder how serious Arduino is about anything else than money.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 31, 2019, 11:01 am
Maybe they have changed their mind based on what has been said here by their customers. But are too embarrassed to admit it.

...R
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: Jantje on Jan 31, 2019, 05:42 pm
Maybe they have changed their mind based on what has been said here by their customers. But are too embarrassed to admit it.

...R
I would call that unlikely for many reasons.
One is that the text "Playground.arduino.cc will be read-only starting December 31st, 2018." is still on the  playground.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: GalFisk on Feb 01, 2019, 12:20 pm
The CONTRBUTING.md file on the Arduino GitHub page also still says that Arduino playground is a publicly editable wiki: https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/blob/4c9da50e57030aebd4320fcc24e3f497f504b663/CONTRIBUTING.md
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Feb 01, 2019, 03:22 pm
CONTRIBUTING.md was written long before this announcement came out. That file should not be used as an indicator of Arduino's plans. If the Playground is made read-only, that file will eventually be updated to reflect the change.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: combs on Feb 23, 2019, 05:30 pm
What a strange change. I hope that this doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: aquilaxx on Mar 02, 2019, 11:57 am
I used this wiki, for years, and here i found again the same passion for MCUs I had during the ancient High School days.
Technically speacking I'm not prepared to give advice to anyone, but trought the flowing of posts, i found both questions and answers needed to fresh my knowing.
During this years i have been able to give life to my workshop projects, and belive me it really makes my life better.   

I just found this thread and reading about the future of the playground has motivated to make this post, my first one.
Having playground read only, not only a really bad idea, but i will change the role itself of this wonderfull place.

I decided to enrich my competence with arduino and its IDE just because of this huge knoledge base, so please don't block its grow.   

I found what "pert" said easy to understand and entirely acceptable.
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Apr 06, 2019, 03:39 am
It looks like the Arduino Playground has now been made read only. When I visit the Playground, I am shown as signed out of my Arduino account, and when I try to sign in it makes no difference.

So it might make sense to resume the discussions here of creating an independent Arduino wiki that is solely controlled by the Arduino community members. Any news from ChrisTenone or terryking228?
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: terryking228 on Apr 06, 2019, 01:09 pm
Hi everyone,

I'll renew an offer to host a lot/all of Playground on https://ArduinoInfo.Info .

Or collaborate on a new other site.

I'm in Japan/HongKong the next week but on the web most days.  I can put more effort in after the 15th.

@pert etal, what do you think would be best?

Regards, Terry
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Apr 07, 2019, 01:59 am
To reiterate, my primary concerns are:
Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: danielg4 on Sep 17, 2019, 08:29 pm
Hello, and thank you for having had the Playground be an editable wiki in the past. In 2009, I contributed the "Much improved version" at the bottom of the following page:
https://playground.arduino.cc/Code/MusicalAlgoFun (https://playground.arduino.cc/Code/MusicalAlgoFun)
I made edits to it for clarification several times since. Some random person apparently found it useful enough to credit me in a YouTube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNaGKhVUaMQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNaGKhVUaMQ)
When I saw that the Playground would become read-only, I thought "OK, I can't think of further edits to that code anyway." However, last night, it occurred to me that I could make the code more efficient and eliminate floating-point math from the loop. Is there a process in place yet to migrate individual pages to the Tutorials or ProjectHub for further edits? If yes, I'd like to request that page, and the pages to which it refers, be nominated for such a migration. If no, I'd like to request that an admin replace my code on that page with the following:
Quote
/*
 * Square wave tune with an Arduino and a PC speaker.
 * The calculation of the tones is made following the mathematical
 * operation:
 *
 * timeUpDown = 1/(2 * toneFrequency) = period / 2
 * )c( Copyleft 2009,2019 Daniel Gimpelevich
 * Inspired from AlexandreQuessy's https://playground.arduino.cc/Code/MusicalAlgoFun
 */

const byte ledPin = 13;
const byte speakerOut = 11;
/* That makes a standard old PC speaker connector fit nicely over the pins. */

long freqTable[128]; /* 10.5 octaves :: semitones. 60 = do, 62 = re, etc. */

/* our song: Each number pair is a MIDI note and a note symbol. */

/* MIDI notes from 0, or C(-1), to 127, or G9. */
/* Rests are note number -1. */

/* Symbols are 1 for whole, -1 for dotted whole, 2 for half, */
/* -2 for dotted half, 4 for quarter, -4 for dotted quarter, etc. */

const int BPM = 120;
const char song[] = {
  64,4,64,4,65,4,67,4, 67,4,65,4,64,4,62,4,
  60,4,60,4,62,4,64,4, 64,-4,62,8,62,2,
  64,4,64,4,65,4,67,4, 67,4,65,4,64,4,62,4,
  60,4,60,4,62,4,64,4, 62,-4,60,8,60,2,
  62,4,62,4,64,4,60,4, 62,4,64,8,65,8,64,4,60,4,
  62,4,64,8,65,8,64,4,62,4, 60,4,62,4,55,2,
  64,4,64,4,65,4,67,4, 67,4,65,4,64,4,62,4,
  60,4,60,4,62,4,64,4, 62,-4,60,8,60,2};

int period, note;
unsigned int i;
unsigned long timeUp;
byte statePin = LOW;

void setup() {
  pinMode(ledPin, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(speakerOut, OUTPUT);
  for (note = 128; note--;)
    freqTable[note] = 105600 * pow(2, (note - 69) / 12.0);
  digitalWrite(speakerOut, LOW);
}

void loop() {
  for (i = 0; i < sizeof(song);) {
    statePin = !statePin;
    digitalWrite(ledPin, statePin);

    note = song[i++];
    period = (note < 0 ? 240000 : freqTable[note]) / (song[i++] * BPM);
    if (period < 0)
      period = period * -3 / 2;

    if (note < 0) {
      delay(period);
      continue;
    }
    timeUp = 120000000 / freqTable[note];
    while (period--) {
      digitalWrite(speakerOut, HIGH);
      delayMicroseconds(timeUp);
      digitalWrite(speakerOut, LOW);
      delayMicroseconds(timeUp);
    }
    delay(50);
  }
  delay(1000);
}

Title: Re: Arduino Playground will be a regular website and not a wiki
Post by: pert on Sep 20, 2019, 01:25 pm
Is there a process in place yet to migrate individual pages to the Tutorials or ProjectHub for further edits?
It would be just as difficult getting edits done in the Tutorials section, since that also requires someone at Arduino with write access to implement your requested changes. In fact it would likely be more difficult since the Arduino employee will need to carefully review any changes made to a tutorial page to make sure it is something Arduino approves of.

You are welcome to create a page on Arduino Project Hub and publish your content there. It would be best for you to do this yourself so that you will have write access to that project. I do think it's very unfortunate to have content duplicated between the Playground and Project Hub. If you end up doing that, I would recommend that you request the Playground page be replaced with a link to your Project Hub project.

As for requesting edits to the Arduino Playground, I would recommend opening an issue report in the arduino/Arduino issue tracker:
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/new (https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/new)

I can't make any promises that will result in a fast resolution, but at least in the tracker your request won't get lost like it will here on the forum.