Arduino Forum

Using Arduino => Motors, Mechanics, Power and CNC => Topic started by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 04:59 pm

Title: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 04:59 pm
This topic was originally placed in the "General Discussion" forum and has since been moved.

I've been wanting to get in to CNC machining for a few years now. I'm a hobbyist woodworker and DIYer and having the ability to make more intricate parts would make some of my ideas easier to accomplish. And, I'd like to possibly produce my own PCBs some day.

Eventually, I would like to have a larger stand alone machine capable of handling a 4' sheet of plywood. And who knows? Maybe even design and build my own. But for now, I think a smaller unit would be better for me at this time due to space limitations, etc.

I'm still in the process of researching machines. So, if you have experience with one or more of these small machines, feel free to tell me about it. Pros, cons, etc. I'm looking for machines capable of working with wood and plastics. Machining aluminum would be a plus. But in no way a "requirement".

I would really like to hear from anyone with advice on the software side to use on a Linux based computer. There are vast amounts of information available on Winblows based programs. But it seems most of what I'm finding about Linux programs is just lists of what's available. Or Joe Schmoe raving "X program is the best", without really telling why he thinks that way.

And if you have any good links to useful resources, feel free to reply.

Thank you for your time!
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: Robin2 on Oct 21, 2019, 06:38 pm
I would really like to hear from anyone with advice on the software side to use on a Linux based computer.
This a Forum for helping people with their own Arduino projects. It is not a Linux forum.

I suspect you will get a lot more help on some of the many CNC forums.

Are you aware that there is a program called LinuxCNC ?

...r
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 21, 2019, 07:19 pm
If you are going to buy a small machine off the shelf so to speak please make sure there are NO 3d printed parts involved. You may have to pay a little extra for such a machine but you will thank me later LOL.

Once you get above a certain size the G-CODE control mechanisms change from mostly GRBL based to MACH based.

However once you have played with a smaller machine moving up to a MACH based machine is quite a short learning curve as you will already have most of the basics down pat.

Better also to avoid those that have the Arduino NANO based control board approach and go for the UNO based.

Currently use my stuff mostly on hardwood so I know if I slow them down even just a small amount they would also be fine for Aluminium.

Don't know what your budget is but a decent size laser of 5W or greater is a fantastic addition and opens up the machine to a lot of new areas.

Don't use Linux here so cannot say much in that aspect.

Bob


This pic might get your juices flowing LOL
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=329297)
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 07:32 pm
This a Forum for helping people with their own Arduino projects. It is not a Linux forum.

I suspect you will get a lot more help on some of the many CNC forums.

Are you aware that there is a program called LinuxCNC ?

...r
This is why I asked in this part of the forum. After all, it's description is
Quote
Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
The many CNC forums you speak of are typically geared toward professionals ( or at least seem to be ) with high end machines. I've not, to this point, found one that has a section for hobbyists/noobs that really gets any traffic. For instance, the one I found this morning. The last post/reply was back in May of this year.

As for LinuxCNC, I have seen mention if it in my research. However, most, if not all, I've read on it were sales pitches, for lack of a better term.

I will indeed seek more information on that particular program. Thanks!
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 07:50 pm
If you are going to buy a small machine off the shelf so to speak please make sure there are NO 3d printed parts involved. You may have to pay a little extra for such a machine but you will thank me later LOL.

Once you get above a certain size the G-CODE control mechanisms change from mostly GRBL based to MACH based.

However once you have played with a smaller machine moving up to a MACH based machine is quite a short learning curve as you will already have most of the basics down pat.

Better also to avoid those that have the Arduino NANO based control board approach and go for the UNO based.

Currently use my stuff mostly on hardwood so I know if I slow them down even just a small amount they would also be fine for Aluminium.

Don't know what your budget is but a decent size laser of 5W or greater is a fantastic addition and opens up the machine to a lot of new areas.

Don't use Linux here so cannot say much in that aspect.

Bob


This pic might get your juices flowing LOL
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=329297)
Thank you very much!

I had read elsewhere to avoid machines with 3D printed parts. But nothing I have read has explained why. I can assume that it has to do with the parts being too flexible or break/wear out.

I had no clue there was a need to use Mach for larger machines.  I figured that the computing would be pretty much the same regardless if size.  But there will time to figure that out later.

And the laser is something I have thought about. And I may go that route to start with in my learning process. Just thinking with a laser there are no expensive cutters/bits to break!

Did you make that clock? Awesome!
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 08:08 pm
Are you aware that there is a program called LinuxCNC ?
Just went to the LinuxCNC website. Looks like I have some reading to do. Thanks again for bringing it up. Not sure why I had not went to the source on that one until now.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 21, 2019, 08:11 pm
Dang...
I knew you were going to ask a couple of "WHY ?"

OK the 3d parts from China and most others will fail for a few reasons.
Infill not sufficient
Cheapest plastic used for the extruder or even re-used plastic used to make the plastic.
30-60% less compression strength.
There are more but those are the main reasons to avoid 3d parts.

As for GRBl to MACH it is pretty simple and more to do with power requirements and motor drivers.
You would be taking that big leap from hobby to semi pro and looking for longer term durability.
That said I probably have a few thousand hours on my hobby machine and the same on the two laser based home brew machines (printers and plywood and chewing gum approach).

Lasers can bring thier own minor issues in that FLAT OBJECTS are mostly the the things you can do until you get into 4th axis or fancy surface tracking. (can be a steep learning curve)

Yes The clock is only one of many wonderful objects I made that keep the wife gasping and allowing me to spend so much time with Arduino and my machines. It was simply a combination of open source artwork / clipart put together in a couple of hours and then machined into a chunk of red maple.

Bob.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: Robin2 on Oct 21, 2019, 08:29 pm
However once you have played with a smaller machine moving up to a MACH based machine is quite a short learning curve
Just out of curiosity did you use GRBL or MACH3 to make your clock face?

It seems to cost money and I can't find out how you interface it to hardware - presumably it is just a tad more modern than LinuxCNC and is not expecting you to have cobweb infested PC with a parallel port :)

...R
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 08:33 pm
Yes The clock is only one of many wonderful objects I made that keep the wife gasping and allowing me to spend so much time with Arduino and my machines. It was simply a combination of open source artwork / clipart put together in a couple of hours and then machined into a chunk of red maple.
I still think it's awesome. More evidence to support the "Happy Wife = Happy Life" rule!

PS.
Thanks for the explanations!!
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 21, 2019, 08:42 pm
Hi R2.

Was going to ask how you are doing with your set up.

I have not yet made the move to MACH based machines but am pretty close as I need a larger machine.
But currently all done using GRBL based machines.

All the simple UNO with a CNC shield on top.
Gone through about 5 driver boards but almost all of my own stupidity by hogging down the machines.
But they are pennies anyway really.

I have a copy of ARTCAM (now defunct) that makes most of the work easy to do simply based on artwork.
There are a few open source packages but I have taken to this pretty well and it came with the first machine I got off the shelf so not looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Most of the newer MACH is USB based or you can even step it up to standalone too.
We all find different packages more to our liking for ease of learning.
I know you like your linux and I like my windows.

Bob.

Side note for Danger is that with cheap diamond bits from China you can also lightly engrave on stone ! Or with a 10/15W laser also write directly on quite a few types of stone.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=329305)
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 10:24 pm
Side note for Danger is that with cheap diamond bits from China you can also lightly engrave on stone ! Or with a 10/15W laser also write directly on quite a few types of stone.
Hadn't even given working with stone a thought. That's pretty cool though. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 21, 2019, 11:05 pm
@Danger.

WARNING...These things can get very addictive and almost any object within arms reach can become a target for these little machines...."I wonder IF.....Oh I know what would be pretty cool to do...Hey just stick your hand on here for a few minutes....Oh I saw some wooden skids just down the road i will be right back...Hmmm now how can I modify this little $#!% to make it work better.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 21, 2019, 11:13 pm
Dang it ballscrewbob!

I'm over 50. Bladder control isn't a problem yet. But ya ain't gotta test it like that! That was friggin funny.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: Robin2 on Oct 21, 2019, 11:20 pm
Was going to ask how you are doing with your set up.
As usual I got sidetracked. I have spent several very enjoyable weeks building a Python program that is a GUI front end for the OpenSCAD 3D modelling program. Unless you use OpenSCAD I doubt if it will have any interest but there is a short video here (https://youtu.be/q1Sd0Fuppuw).

...R
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 22, 2019, 02:30 am
Oh and did I mention making paint stencils with the laser.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/u1mOXYrJ7ck/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 24, 2019, 07:53 pm
Well, in my search for a decent machine, I am really leaning towards the MillRight M3 (https://millrightcnc.com/product/millright-cnc-m3-kit/) minus the Router and mount. I really don't want to use a wood router to do the job of a spindle. Not to mention the noise a wood router makes. I know spindles can be loud as well.

Anyone heard anything bad abought the M3? Or with MillRight in general? Not real keen on the frame being made of MDF. But that could be upgraded later on to something more durable and stiffer.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 24, 2019, 09:38 pm
Not keen on the belt drive either to be honest or the Vee rails.
(explanation) Real CNC machines tend to always use direct drive or a small pulley to direct drive not a full belt for the whole travel. It is also less noise overall too. Also there is no SLACK to take up that can introduce some positional errors.

If that's about the size you want to start with then I would say look for something that has direct drive from the stepper and runs on at least 12mm linear rails. (most about that size will)

I know the chinese ones look crappy but the frames tend to be aluminium and very sturdy.
The "TEE" bolt frame can take many additions and  lend themselves well to modifications (speaking from experience LOL)

Mine has had some plywood added and an extra PSU for the better spindle and some extra controls are mounted on that along with fans (old computer) on each side in PUSH PULL mode to get the fumes and fine dust to one side for easier clean up...

I agree on no router approach for the smaller machines as the spindles are quieter.
But you should look for a minimum 500W (300W would be an ok starter) with an ER11 collet on it.
And ER11 chucks up to 1/4 and 6 MM although you would find a lot of the smaller bits use 3.175 mm regardless of size.  You WILL break some of the smaller tools until you get to grips with speeds and feeds so having extras is a bonus.

Don't expect to use STD router tools on small stuff unless you are quite careful.

Mine is a bit of a Frankenmill with the modifications but it does what I ask of it and I can swap it back to its original config without too much hassle apart from the Y and Z axis that failed (3d printed).

Bob.

Addendum.. In another life I installed ballscrews to CNC lathes and mills and was also a service tech for a couple of CNC machine suppliers hence the nic.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 25, 2019, 01:31 am
Addendum.. In another life I installed ballscrews to CNC lathes and mills and was also a service tech for a couple of CNC machine suppliers hence the nic.
That makes me appreciate your insight all the more!

I looked at the Chinese CNC machines like this one (https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-3018-Engraver-Controller-Extension/dp/B07DXMFY38/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?keywords=cnc+router&qid=1571958716&sprefix=cnc&sr=8-5).  And was putting thought into how to recreate those printed parts in a stronger material. Or how to swap them with better parts.

Aside from that, and the cheap spindle, those machines seem somewhat solid. There's even a vid on YT where a fella machines aluminum with his. No way near as fast as the MillRight M3 was shown to do though. That said, the MillRight had a top of the line spindle and a high quality mill/bit. (Still working on terminology)

The ability to machine aluminum is not mandatory for me. Just a bonus.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 25, 2019, 02:16 am
The machine I linked above was not the one I was eyeballing. It has plastic uprights. This is similar or maybe even the same (https://www.amazon.com/Desktop-Control-Plastic-Engraving-30x18x4-5cm/dp/B07FY532DH/ref=mp_s_a_1_237?keywords=cnc+router&qid=1571961046&sprefix=cnc&sr=8-237) as what I was looking at.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 25, 2019, 06:20 am
Those grey plastic lumps are what will fail eventually.
Luckily for me I saw it coming and used the machine to make its own replacement parts somewhat.
A few suppliers offer upgrades to those parts and for the Z its often worth it as you will probably end up with more Z travel.
That extra Z travel can come in quite useful too.

If you have somebody who can machine HDPE or aluminium that would make great replacement parts.
If not and you are handy (and accurate) with wood then a suitable hardwood makes just as good a replacement.
My spare parts came from a hardwood skid and I used the machine to do most of the work but simplified that "U" shaped bit to just a block that carries the bearings and lead screw. Then added two right angle plates I found at the hardware store to carry the rest of the assembly.

But see all those empty T slots on the side that just beg for something to be mounted like a nice piece of ply so you can move the power supply and electronics to a better area and give yourself room to add some extra controls and gadgets.
Also acts as a guard sort of to keep a lot of the sawdust more inside the machine.

Mine was a 3025 with a 50mm Z now its a 3025 with 170 Z and a plethora of electronic bolt ons.
Once you have one in your hands then you will quickly see which bits could have been made better or what you need to add on.

BTW if you can be patient enough with waiting times for delivery then look at Aliexpress  (https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.73464021dLurnr&SearchText=3018%20cnc%20upgrade)or even Ebay as Amazon tends to be more expensive for this game all round. Even my tooling comes from Aliexpress.

For tooling try avoid dual flutes and go with 4 flute preferably without the hole in the end for coolant and if you can find them the ones with slightly offset cutting edges on the bottom.
I got some 4mm ones a while back and am amazed at how much deeper I can go for a pass and how much quicker too. Not broken one of those yet either...Rough out with end mills and finish off with a ball end.
Although on occasion I finish with 1.0 mm END mills but you have to be careful with those.

BTW despite my CNC background it was all mechanical and I never programmed them so all this was a learning curve for me.

Will throw a couple of pics up when I get a moment that may explain better than I do.

Bob.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 25, 2019, 12:37 pm
I was actually contemplating using epoxy resin to cast blocks large enough to machine down. Stuff sets hard as a rock and cuts and drills pretty well. Would have to test if a 3018 can mill it though. I guess a lot would depend on the spindle and tooling chosen.

I linked to the one on Amazon only because their links tend to stay active longer. eBay  was where I was looking though. And you're correct. Much cheaper.

And I would love to see how you modded the Z axis. The Z travel is IMO the one of the biggest cons to these machines besides the plastic bits. Of course, my opinion is based on very, very limited knowledge.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 25, 2019, 04:53 pm
Some poor pics of the mods.

The black brackets found at a hardware store. The lower one was modified to allow the spindle body to pass by

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=329849)

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=329851)

Extra parts used.

2x optical rod 8mm x 200mm long
2x flange mount for 8mm rod
2x end mount for 8mm rod
1x  8mm leadscrew 250 mm long
1x 8mm flange bearing.

Rest was scrounged from the Z failure.
You can also see some rubber strip I used to help damp the spindle noise but that has to be positioned carefully otherwise you will throw out the the tooling alignment.
Just had enough room on the machine to get most of the depth needed for the bearing holes etc in the wood with a long series 6mm end mill, and finished off on a regular drill stand.

Other pic shows the plywood dust catching and fan.
It will take two fans if I want as there is a plate over the second hole.

I would be wary of EPOXY RESIN as it has a tendency to fracture under stress. You will encounter stress in more than one way LOL.

Bob
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 26, 2019, 01:03 am
I would be wary of EPOXY RESIN as it has a tendency to fracture under stress. You will encounter stress in more than one way LOL.

Bob
I really should have thought of that. I built an electric guitar for my son last Christmas and finished it with clear epoxy. Makes for one heck of a mirror shine when all buffed out. But he bumped it pretty hard going through a doorway and it popped a big chunk out. Was a pretty easy repair. Way easier than a paint finish.

I'll probably start out similar to yours by using a hard wood. Once I figure everything out I should say.

Just did the "make offer" thing on a 3018 on eBay. Have to wait and see if they'll go for it. Their original price was well below anything on Amazon. And I asked for another 30% off. We'll see.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 26, 2019, 06:00 am
30% less I would consider a bit of an insult so don't be surprised if you don't get an answer.

Good thing is the machine is capable of making its own spare parts in some cases.
Better thing is, you can design them without the flaws and some built in improvements.

There are some advantages to using hardwood on these smaller machines.

1. If you use the GRAIN to its advantage it can add quite a bit of strength.
2. It does help soak noise and vibration.
3. The size you are using makes it super cheap and affordable. (or in my case free)
4. Easy to make even if you don't have the machine to begin with. (my prototype was just done on the drill)
5. This is an important one. As you use grease to keep the bearings lubed that soaks into the wood and enhances the strength even more as it feeds the wood (so to speak)

Bob.


Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 26, 2019, 06:07 pm
Quote from: ballscrewbob
30% less I would consider a bit of an insult so don't be surprised if you don't get an answer.
I heard back on that offer. Person said listed price was the price. No negotiating. Replied back with a higher price and asked why have that option available. Got a reply stating it would be removed from future postings.

Going to order one that doesn't come with the ER11 collet. But I'm also going to order a better spindle. Seems most of those I'm finding come with the collet.

I'm open to input on what to look for in a decent spindle. Of course, an ER11 is pretty much mandatory. And bare minimum of 300W. But looking for 400+.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 26, 2019, 06:10 pm
Also, regarding the use of wood to recreate/modify the plastics. Thinking about using plywood layered together. That should take care of strength in just about every direction. Plus, I have plenty on hand. Thoughts?
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 26, 2019, 08:18 pm
Decent plywood properly laminated and glued etc would be a great substitute for just hardwood.
Probably marine grade as the glues used are better than regular ply.

Last spindle I got was this one (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32341330193.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dDeC9zK).
Love it and extended the pot wires a bit so I could place it better.
Also fitted a proper switch rather than the wire jumper for on/off.
Bonus is that it will drop in to a larger machine because it has the MACH option too.
Sort of thinking ahead of myself LOL.

Bob.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 26, 2019, 09:25 pm
Last spindle I got was this one (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32341330193.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dDeC9zK).
That is weird. The one you have linked is one of two I have in my cart. The other one is roughly the same price but doesn't have nearly as much with it. Just the spindle, collet and driver. And now that I'm looking at them side by side, I think they're exactly the same driver and spindle. So, I guess it's a no brainier on which to delete from my cart. Still eyeballing others but seems like best bang for the buck. And most likely the one I'll order.

As I said, I really do appreciate you sharing your opinions/knowledge. I feel a lot more confident that I won't be just wasting money on something completely unusable.

I'm going to place my order today for the machine and the spindle and possibly a bit set. I think that should keep me busy for a time with delivery time, setup, etc.

I'll hit up LinuxCNC for software questions. And with any help I need getting it to actually mill a project.

 Hopefully, I won't have to bug you for a while!

Thanks again!
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 27, 2019, 12:04 am
As for the mill set Might I suggest.

A couple sets similar to these. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32799176806.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.20c56ec6xUjXyk&algo_pvid=74fd954c-318b-46ee-b945-b9acf73bcc94&algo_expid=74fd954c-318b-46ee-b945-b9acf73bcc94-10&btsid=e01b2437-e08c-475e-9f5b-eeb136b1aec0&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_55)

And a couple sets of these. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954054350.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.65e17873fJCK9X&algo_pvid=84e73b9e-9a0b-47e7-a87b-11bdf2002345&algo_expid=84e73b9e-9a0b-47e7-a87b-11bdf2002345-36&btsid=46ad6f3a-354a-4e76-8618-41be7ae3fc85&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_55)

Between them you would have a good starter set suitable for a good range of work.

You can always add to those later with more specialist ones.

Bob.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 27, 2019, 12:07 am
As for bugging me well thats what we are all here for one way or another.
Masochistic tendencies I think they call it LOL

Bob.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 27, 2019, 04:28 am
As for the mill set Might I suggest.

A couple sets similar to these. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32799176806.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.20c56ec6xUjXyk&algo_pvid=74fd954c-318b-46ee-b945-b9acf73bcc94&algo_expid=74fd954c-318b-46ee-b945-b9acf73bcc94-10&btsid=e01b2437-e08c-475e-9f5b-eeb136b1aec0&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_55)

And a couple sets of these. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954054350.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.65e17873fJCK9X&algo_pvid=84e73b9e-9a0b-47e7-a87b-11bdf2002345&algo_expid=84e73b9e-9a0b-47e7-a87b-11bdf2002345-36&btsid=46ad6f3a-354a-4e76-8618-41be7ae3fc85&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_55)

Between them you would have a good starter set suitable for a good range of work.

You can always add to those later with more specialist ones.

Bob.

Found similar end mills on eBay and have them on the way. However, my CC company locked my card down when I tried to order the machine and spindle from Banggood.  :smiley-mad: Hopefully I'll be able to get hold of them tomorrow and get it unlocked. Then get the rest ordered. Maybe I'll have it assembled before Christmas. I should probably start a PayPal account. Might make things simpler.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 27, 2019, 04:41 am
Not used bangood because of the same issue.
That's partly how I ended up on Aliexpress and never looked back.

Bob.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 27, 2019, 05:37 am
AliExpress is way too pricey on their machines. Either huge shipping amounts or they say free shipping and jack their price up when you click on USA. A 3018 on there would cost close to $200. About $150 on banggood.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 27, 2019, 05:46 am
Yes you have to watch the shipping but so far no problems.
Maybe you are getting hit by Cheetos Tariffs ?
And maybe I need to have another look at bangood ?

Bob.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 27, 2019, 03:08 pm
Yes you have to watch the shipping but so far no problems.
Maybe you are getting hit by Cheetos Tariffs ?
And maybe I need to have another look at bangood ?

Bob.
Well, got the card straightened out and opened a PayPal account (I had no idea it was that easy to pay for stuff ). No issues whatsoever with my CC and PP. Payment is already pending on my bank account.

Got this spindle for $63.99

Machifit ER11 Chuck CNC 500W Spindle Motor with 52mm Clamps and Power Supply Speed Governor (https://www.banggood.com/Machifit-ER11-Chuck-CNC-500W-Spindle-Motor-with-52mm-Clamps-and-Power-Supply-Speed-Governor-p-1027937.html?cur_warehouse=CN)

And this machine for $132.99

3018 3 Axis Mini DIY CNC Router Standard Spindle Motor Wood Engraving Machine Milling Engraver (https://www.banggood.com/3018-3-Axis-Mini-DIY-CNC-Router-Standard-Spindle-Motor-Wood-Engraving-Machine-Milling-Engraver-p-1274569.html?cur_warehouse=USA)

I couldn't get anywhere near those prices at AliExpress. And the items I ordered are coming in from Canada and should arrive in the next 3 or 4 days. The best AE could say on a delivery date was by 12/31.

So, for my case (this time) Banggood was the cheapest and quickest. Even besting eBay in both categories.

I ordered the Machifit collet set separately on eBay for $7 or $8 w/free shipping. 2 each of mill end sets similar to those you suggested for about $16 shipped. and 5 KW12-3PCB limit switches for $4 shipped.

With any luck, by this time next year, I'll have a fully operational battle ..... er .... CNC machine for approx $230. Cheaper than I had imagined. But I'm also aware there is more cost to come. LoL Like that laser!

(It's hard to say "fully operational" without going full Emperor Palpatine)
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 27, 2019, 04:39 pm
I remembered the other reason I didnt use Bangood was that they didnt have the larger machines.
Probably to keep shipping costs down.

Did notice some cheaper and some more expensive items so may have to pick and choose where I buy.
Already have PayPal from my Ebay days so not much to do or change.

I still run without limit switches but I should take the time to go that path and certainly will when I order the bigger machine.


Small list of SPARES or other goodies that are GOOD TO HAVE ON HAND.

8mm Bearings (flange) Same as on the machine (x2).

8x5 Coupling for the lead screws ( x2)

Assorted TEE nuts and TEE bolts to suit the different slots on the machine. Also useful for clamping purposes.

A spare controller (UNO and Shield) I got a few now but one set may save your bacon. And at about $8 CDN for a set it is not really wasted money and also provides a nice test bed. Also DRIVER BOARDS but pay the few cents extra for the higher duty ones. and always get them with heatsinks and be prepared to put a small fan nearby too aiming at them (longer term reliability)

Some small momentary push switches for use as the PAUSE RESUME and ABORT that you can mount in easy reach. (you may already have or can salvage) and SHIELDED cable to use with them. Old PS2 keyboards are great for that cable. Also some suitable DUPONT connectors if you don't already have some. I invested in the proper crimp tool a long time ago for regular Arduino work.

Suitable ON / OFF switch for the PSU's

Suitable ON/OFF switch for the spindle.

Digital Vernier, even a cheapish one will be fine. (at least 10 inch). Used to fine tune the alignments of the whole machine and keep track of tool sizes and a multitude of other odd machine related jobs.
Also a good 6" and 12" rule with imperial and metric scale.

Couple of spare stepper leads (invaluable in the long term)

At least one spare stepper motor. Also useful for testing but you may find at least one goes down on you if you stall them too often.

A decent terminal block to help with wire routing and keeping things simpler in the longer term as you add extra controls circuits etc. Also very useful for the STAR grounding you will need to employ when you are adding switches and such.

I also keep a spare 24v 15A PSU on hand.

IMPORTANT spares are the bearings. You only need the bearings which will probably be 12mm and 8 mm LM xx UU types. At least 4 of each size. You will probably need those at around 500 + hrs as you will have bumped the machine a lot by then if you are as foolish as me (I bet it can dig another couple of mm from this cut..Oh dang maybe not)

Some light grease EP2 or Lithium white. I use the white. to PRIME the bearings before installation.

A decent set of long reach ball end allen keys for those hard to reach places and better than the cheap bendy ones supplied with the machine.

A good selection of small washers and lock washers for use during installation. If you are a millwright you will notice a few places where none are included in the kit but as an engineer you will tell yourself that it needs one. You may also notice that that parts of the machine will benefit from the extra MM or so clearance especially the bed to the rod carriers. The kit will be mostly OK but a bit sparse in some areas. Also useful helping spread load for clamps and such.

A very understanding partner who is prepared to listen to you prattling on about parasitic noise on switches and why you crashed your machine and now need X amount of money to order Y part.

You don't need all those at once, and they are not in any particular order except that last one which is pretty critical but all worthy spares one way or another.

Loved the Star wars reference.
Prefer the HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS approach myself.

Bob.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 27, 2019, 05:06 pm
And....

Be prepared to DEDICATE some tools to the machine such as the rulers and 6" and 12" tri square.
Maybe  some screwdrivers, small spanners (wrenches to the heathens).
Decent stanley knife (box cutter to the uninitiated).
Small plier set.
A multimeter (almost any cheap DVM will do)

A dedicated tool / shadow board comes in handy with room to expand.

Bob.

PS. did I mention the all forgiving partner ?


Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 28, 2019, 01:09 am
Small list of SPARES or other goodies that are GOOD TO HAVE ON HAND.
That seems like a pretty comprehensive list. Thanks again! A few items I had thought about. Most I hadn't. All of which makes perfectly good sense though. A few items I'll get right away and then add the others over time to break up the expense.


A very understanding partner who is prepared to listen to you prattling on about parasitic noise on switches and why you crashed your machine and now need X amount of money to order Y part.
I have the luxury of only having to answer to myself.

But I will do some homework on "parasitic noise on switches". Wasn't aware that could be an issue though.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 28, 2019, 01:14 am
Side note to all this.

Finally fixed my parasitic glitches after a week of minor cable re-routes and upgrades.
Had gotten it down to just random PAUSE.

Step 1. Enclose cable runs individually in screening (old coax with centre removed is great for that). Heat shrinked the ends so it looks tidy.

Step 2. Route USB cable at diagonals to any cable crossing (old trick but works).

Step 3. Ferrites wherever possible at the ends of cable runs (all scavenged from misc electronics).

Step 4. Make and install a 0.47 electrolytic capacitor pack into a 4 way DUPONT header that goes to a set of ground pins, and feed other ends via some super soft thin stranded cable to the signal side of the switches. Also heat shrunk the cap pack.

Step 5. 10nF disc cap near spindle and another at the other end near the PSU.

Step 6. 10 nF cap across the spindle relay output.

4 hours dry run and not a single glitch.
Sounds like a lot of work but hope I can go back to a "lights out" approach at last.
Next test is actual cut and its will be in fully cured ELM so it will have its work cut out for it.

This thread gave me the impetus to get around to this job so thanks guys.

Bob.

PS as I hit post it told me you had just posted LOL.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 28, 2019, 02:04 am
We all need a little push every now and then!

And your last post tells me I have a lot to learn about knocking down noise!

Need more coax? I think I still have a box of coax (probably 450' left in it ) out in the shed. I found it on the back porch of an abandoned house on a job site when I was a land surveyor several years ago. I may have to have you tell me how you removed the center. Just trim the outer layers back a little leaving the center core longer and then grab it and pull it out?

Side note to all this.

Finally fixed my parasitic glitches after a week of minor cable re-routes and upgrades.
Had gotten it down to just random PAUSE.

This thread gave me the impetus to get around to this job so thanks guys.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 28, 2019, 02:12 am
Yep that's pretty much how I did it but in about 2 foot lengths otherwise it will be a problem. (learned that the hard way)

And well on my way to adding limit switches too now...Dang you....LOL

Bob.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 28, 2019, 02:26 am
And well on my way to adding limit switches too now...Dang you....LOL
You're welcome!  8) LoL 8)


And take pictures!!! I may need visual reference.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 28, 2019, 06:04 pm
Well, so much for saving a few bucks. Banggood cancelled my order. Guess I'll be paying a little more over at eBay.

Banggood sent me an email saying they needed me to send them a copy of my driver's license to verify I am who I say I am. Seriously? As if I'm even going to give a single thought to actually doing that.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 28, 2019, 06:07 pm
Hmm no way do they need that.


Bob.

Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 29, 2019, 04:39 pm
The machine should arrive in 2 days. Along with some of the "add ons". Hopefully I'll be able to at least start the assembly process this weekend.

I've been thinking on the whole shielded wires thing. Is there a down side to using shielded guitar cable? Not sure the gauge on each of the (I believe) 4 individual wires and won't til I'm home. I have several feet of fairly high quality not being used (yet).
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 29, 2019, 04:50 pm
So long as it is shielded (prefer braid over the cheap plastic foil) then it should be fine for such as the PAUSE, ABORT, RESUME, or limit switches.

As for the steppers and spindle (my next task) or other electronics then keep it at the very least the same gauge or if you can the next one up.

Bob.



Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 29, 2019, 10:59 pm
Moving this to motors and mechanics.
Simply because it may help others who don't get this far down the sections.

@R2 I should have listened to you earlier LOL (Dang did I say that out loud)...Shh voices in my head be quiet now this wont hurt a bit.

Bob.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 30, 2019, 01:46 am
You have shared a bunch of info. Would be a shame if I were the only one to benefit from it.

And I'm sure, as I dive head first into this, that you'll be sharing some more! I know I'll need it.
Title: Re: desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 30, 2019, 02:18 am
May also be nice to get some critique as to where I might have gone wrong too.

None of us are perfect least of all me.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 30, 2019, 02:38 am
Oh and it took me 4 hours to complete the mechanical build for the one off the shelf.
I full expect that to be beaten.

Then on the initial build about 1 hour for the wiring to switch on.
Again I know that can be beaten.

Bob.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 30, 2019, 02:57 am
You asked for some extra pics.
One badly shows a ferrite and I used the shielding to run a ground to the speed control case but it also (sort of) shows the heat shrunk end.

Other is the new CNC test board.

If I suspect a part is dead I can swap it out against a known working one.
Used the spare 24V PSU I had.
The relay (almost centre) is for spindle control but will be adding another for fan control too.
You can see I also mount the heatsinks with the fins in the same direction so the tiny fan (far right) pushes air over easier.
Two chinese voltage droppers also employed. One gives me the 5V i need for the relay and the other gives me the 12V I need for the fan.
You can also see the shielded cable running to the main switch box.
Push buttons for the GRBL functions and the ability to switch the 5, 12, or 24V lines off individually too. (power all kept to one side of the box.

Mounted on a bit of ply so I can move it around or if needed use it as a full backup control system by simply swapping wires over.

Bob.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330583)

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330585)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 30, 2019, 12:33 pm
I like the idea of a test board. Easier to figure out what might be wrong and you know you have the part.

I'll be putting one of those together after I get my head wrapped around what I have coming now.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 31, 2019, 01:44 am
The machine I ordered has the control board mounted vertically. I think you mentioned adding heatsinks to the stepper modules as has everything I've read about them. And I see them in your pics.

Being vertical, is it best to use thermal paste? Or go with a glue or tape? My brain says glue or tape. But other than being somewhat permanent, I really don't know what other cons may be lurking for a noob such as myself.

I guess the only reason I would ever want to remove them would be if a module died. Then it wouldn't matter at all if I damaged the module removing the heatsink.

Did I just talk myself through that?
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 31, 2019, 02:16 am
To use paste you would need retaining clips and there is no provision on the boards I have seen for that.

The glue on tape can become soft with heat and the heatsinks can be jostled around.

I went with superglue and have not yet had any heatsink failures.

And yes you talked to yourself a lot I heard. ... JK.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 31, 2019, 03:38 pm
Final part of my parasitic jigsaw.

Now running total "lights out" with zero issues.

Run the motor case ground cable back to the spindle PSU case where I have my star ground located.

Bob.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330791)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Oct 31, 2019, 06:33 pm
I went with superglue and have not yet had any heatsink failures.
Super glued parts can be separated with heat. Although, if one of those modules gets that hot, you have bigger problems. Super glue it is then!

Is the green wire the ground you speak of? Looks like you added that. Grounding that to the power supply really help that much?
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 31, 2019, 06:53 pm
Or you can buy a bag of 20 of those heatsinks without the adhesive tape for about $1.00 CDN !

Grounding motor cases is a common enough practice anyway even in industry.
In my case it helped and in your case it is easier to do during the machine build.
getting it to follow my add-on drag chain was fiddly.

A machine FRAME ground is also a useful addition.

You can always include it in the spiral wrap too.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 31, 2019, 07:13 pm
Just for a little bit of reference.

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/JRky1.png)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 01, 2019, 12:10 am
Thank you ballscrebob! For clearing up the "Star grounding". I assumed that is what you meant by that. But me and any form of the word "assume" don't tend to get along.

Got my machine today. Couldn't help but do a rough assembly without any add-ons or mods. Wasn't able to get the Y-axis table mounted. The screws are about 2mm too short. So, have to head to the hardware store tomorrow. Aside from that, it went together pretty well. (If someone is thinking about a machine like this and CAN'T assemble something like this without directions, don't purchase a Chinese 3018 CNC. There are no directions for these things).

Planning to install limit switches, of course. The board only has sockets for 3 (x,y and z). So, I'll have to double up if I want them on both ends of an axis. The board says "www.benbox.ca" on it. That's really the only markings that might point to more information. Haven't checked it though.

Going to stare at it for a few hours and decide what kind of mounts I need to make for the limit switches. Figure out how to run the wires and secure them. Etc, etc, etc.

Also, I ordered a machine that was shown with and came with the brass 8mm to 6mm (I think) shaft connector for connecting the bit/mill. However, to my amazement, it came with an ER11 already attached to the motor.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330920)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330922)

I'll have to cut these down just a bit. Dremel to the rescue!
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330924)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330926)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=330928)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 01, 2019, 12:30 am
See that stick up MOSFET...See if you can mount a heatsink on it but bigger then the driver board ones.
Probably nothing to worry about but if it were my machine I would feel a little happier.

Not sure if you may have already checked the tracking for the X and Y ?
If not remove the steppers and slide the assembly to the very end of each direction to make sure there are no tight spots. If there is then slacken off two mounts on one bar and let it relax into position while sliding back and forth. Oh and of course check it is still parallel to the frame.

The closer you get those parallel movements the more accurate your corner cuts will be.
Otherwise you will probably cut a slight diamond shape.
Used the digital vernier here for most of that work.

When the table is on you can use that as the ZERO to set the Y rails to run true to the table.

Once it is completely built go around every nut, bolt, screw and double check they are tight.

You look to be doing well there young padawan  :)

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 01, 2019, 01:06 am
.
You look to be doing well there young padawan  :)
Padawan.... Sure. Young.... I wish!!!

I'll be taking the machine completely apart and reassembling it after doing some cleaning and burr removal. I'll be measuring everything very carefully then.

I put the X guide rods and lead screw through the Z assembly. Mounted the top rod on both ends. Slid the Z to one end and tightened the bottom rod there. Slid it the other way and tightened the bottom there. Moves from one side to the other smooth as silk.

I have a few heatsinks I harvested from here and there. I'll see if one will fit in there with that MOSFET. Appreciate the tip.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 01, 2019, 01:28 am
62 but feel 30 ISH most days.
Some days maybe not so much.

Don't forget to pump as much grease as you can into those linear bearings prior to final assembly.

Never used those 3d printer bearing holders I see for the lead screw so have no idea how long they will last.
I would suggest using a drop of loctite or similar on them during the build too.

Not spotted anything else too obvious.

Once it is fired up properly you may want to check the GRBL version on that Nano and go with 1.1F (current version) But you would need to also make sure your shield is capable too as some of them needed a special version of GRBL to get around a PCB wrong track issue.
Chances are it will not affect that one though.

Bob.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 01, 2019, 01:50 am
Well, I guess you have a few years on me then. 50 here.

I've been trying to find info on the board. Turns out it is a " Alfawise CNC Laser Engraver Main Board - Ruby Red"

Specs/Description...

Chip: 328P
Product name: 3-axis control board ( compatible with Y-axis dual motor control )
Main control module: NANO 328
Interface: USB
Rated input electrical parameters: 12V - 36 V, 6A
Support system: XP / Win7 / Win8 / Win10
Support software: GRBL / LASER / CANDLE / BENBOX
Supportable axis: 3 axes
Spindle interface: 2 pins
Laser interface: 3 pins
Power interface: DC 5.5 x 2.5
Is there an external water cooler: yes
Whether to support two-needle laser: yes
Whether it has an external 24V terminal: yes


Now, I know you're not a Linux fella, but what are the odds this board will run with Linux? Seeing as it only mentions WinBlows.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 01, 2019, 02:16 am
Chances are exceptionally good.
In fact probably better than that even.

All you are going to do is send GRBL commands to the board via USB and the board will do all the fancy shenanigans to make things wiggle around like you tell it to.

What you use for that is almost entirely up to you.
Ya can get fancy schmancy Like Robin and make your own or pull from about a dozen or so packages off the Linux shelf.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 01, 2019, 02:52 am
Yeah. That agrees with what I've been reading since I asked. It's all new to me.

I just have to figure out the processes for the tasks I want to accomplish. The program's I want to use for each step of the process. Etc. There's a LOT to learn.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 02, 2019, 06:20 pm
Hey ballscrewbob (and anyone else who has one of these machines). Just for future information. Not sure what size extrusions your machine uses. Mine are 20mm. And an M5 hex bolt (with just a wee bit of grinding) fits in the slot. Might be useful in areas where you don't care if the threaded end is sticking out a bit.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=331177)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 02, 2019, 06:29 pm
There are a few sizes that will fit in there with just a tiny amount of modification.

Some "dome head" bolts are also good as the short square section under the head can stop them spinning.
Different parts of the extrusions will take some useful bolts for "add-on's" < had to be careful typing that.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 02, 2019, 08:06 pm
There are a few sizes that will fit in there with just a tiny amount of modification.

Some "dome head" bolts are also good as the short square section under the head can stop them spinning.
Different parts of the extrusions will take some useful bolts for "add-on's" < had to be careful typing that.

Bob.


I didn't even give lag bolts a thought. I may have to pick some of those up (if I don't have them already). Have to go back to the hardware anyway. My dumb butt forgot the longer M6 bolts to mount the table. And that was the main reason for going!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 03, 2019, 06:58 pm
Ok FINAL MOD.

A DIODE.

As close to the spindle motor as possible between the Ground and the positive rail.

Did get two totally random glitches over the last two days (thought i was past that)
Cause was pretty clear as it only happened when it had finished a cut and was heading home.
Only thing that happened at that point is the spindle turns off and even then it did not always do it.

Diode types may vary depending on the voltage and amps a specific spindle pulls.
In my case a 10A10 works like a charm. A little overkill but a very easy mod often mentioned when dealing with motors.
It should prevent the spike back when the voltage is cut off.

9 hours, 4 cuts and not a peep.

Have a few diodes from board tear downs and such so was ZERO cost.

Bob.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 03, 2019, 09:50 pm
That on the 500w motor?

My machine made its first movements today. Working on brackets to hold the limit switches. With that in mind, the big orange box hardware store sells shielded 18g 4 wire for $0.66 per foot. Picked up some today for my limit switches. Possibly a little overkill.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 03, 2019, 10:48 pm
Yep that was on a 500W spindle.

18G might be a little tricky to get into dupont connectors.
Shielded cat 5 or 6 might be a little better then you also get the twisted pair scheme to help things a little more.

Bob.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 04, 2019, 07:33 pm
Well, I haven't had a great deal of time to mess around with the new toy. But I have made some progress. It's together as far as I can get it until other supplies come in the mail. I've only had time to get  the limit switches mounted. 2 for X, 2 for Y and 1 for Z.

The X and Y mounts were pretty straight forward. It took some "out of the box" thinking to get the Z switch in place though. A few pics for anyone interested.


The X and Y switches are all mounted similar to this, the left X switch. And those M2 bolts will be turned around so they won't be poking outward.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=331527)

Yes, bending that thing was a pain in the caboose!
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=331529)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 06, 2019, 10:18 am
Guess what grandpa knocked up after the postman came with goodies....
Looks familiar but it isn't !
GRBL running on the MEGA with a RAMPS 1.4 !

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=331779)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 06, 2019, 06:21 pm
Guess what grandpa knocked up after the postman came with goodies....
Looks familiar but it isn't !
GRBL running on the MEGA with a RAMPS 1.4 !

That's awesome. Send me the other board you put together and I'll hold on to it for safe keeping. I've got some extra space for storage :D

Now clue me in on the Ramps 1.4.  A cursory glance at Google makes me think it's main use is a fan controller. But don't have a lot of time to study on it til later.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 06, 2019, 07:04 pm
Send you the other one...Yeeaaa Suuuure...And your cheque is in the post too   :)  :)

Ok this Ramps thing is new to me too so I may get some things wrong.
Literally jumped in the deep end yesterday.

HOWEVER...

Allows pendants external controls and displays and has some nice mosfet included outputs, along with lots of spare pins to add a whole slew of goodies
The TWO spare AXIS I can see being quite useful in the not too distant future.

Buffer space is MASSIVE compared to the UNO / NANO types which may be either a bonus or a pain...Not sure yet.

It did take a little while to find a suitable GRBL firmware though so lots of swearing and uploads involved.

It cost me a little over $4 for two Megas and a little over $5 for for the Ramps board so outlay was certainly worth it in my case as a progression step in my skills (few that they are LOL).

Bob.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: wildbill on Nov 06, 2019, 10:22 pm
I've used Ramps to drive a 3D printer, which is what it was originally for I think. So it can handle four steppers, some limit switches, heated bed, extruder temperature and fan. But no doubt different firmware can adapt it easily to CNC needs.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 07, 2019, 12:24 am
Hi Bill.

That's what really surprised me.
Most of the forks had ceased work about 2 years or more ago in the GRBL side of things.

I had expected there to be a much more active side.
The one I found that worked best is actually over 2 years old.

But thankfully it is pretty well documented and easily customisable too.
Works great with UGS too.

The UGS people also seem to have taken an interest in a good MEGA fork but not sure if it is RAMPS directed.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 07, 2019, 01:31 am
Anyone looking for a CAD program to go along with their CNC, I have a recommendation.

Just download FreeCAD. I have years of experience with CAD programs (mostly AutoCAD in a civil engineering setting).  If you have little to no experience using those types of programs, get it and watch a few vids. It's by far the easiest 3d design program I've ever used.

Now, I may change my mind on that if it makes me jump through a bunch of hoops to get from finished drawing to useable g-code. :D

Haven't made it that far with it yet. But I did design an enclosure for the main board of my CNC that incorporates a PC fan. Took all of 45 minutes.

Now I just need to win the lottery so I can afford the acrylic to make it out of! I had no idea that stuff was made from the juice squeezed from gold bars.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 07, 2019, 02:34 am
Now I just need to win the lottery so I can afford the acrylic to make it out of! I had no idea that stuff was made from the juice squeezed from gold bars.
Same with decent epoxy in any sort of quantity.

I have a half decent selection of rocks with GOLD in them from some time building new gold mines in Northern Ontario but cant quite squeeze it out... Looks pretty though...buttery yellow not the shiney fools gold.

Prices on some materials is why I do so much upcycling of old printers, stereos, and such.
Fine source of bits and bobs.

I can often beat the garbage men on re-cycle day in my town.
Local dump is also exceptionally re-cycle friendly and if I don't like it I can always take it back for something better LOL
I go up there with a few tools drop off what I took then mooch around for an hour.

Bob
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 12, 2019, 04:01 pm
How's the machine working out Bob?

I'm still waiting for some items to be delivered before I can finish connecting all my switches and the like.

Was messing around with UniversalGcodeSender to set up the correct number of steps. Hit a button and the machine unexpectedly took off at an angle and down. Broke the tip off one of my cheap engraver bits and put a small gouge in the bed.

No idea what I did wrong. So, I can't say "I won't do that again".

And, for now, I've given up on using a Linux machine. I'm still learning my way around Linux and just starting to figure out CNC. Learning the two together would probably be a disaster.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 12, 2019, 06:04 pm
Mine has been running like a champ since my last modification.

Sort of wondered where you were.
Suspected you had it running and were bewitched watching a simple UNO do all that magic LOL.

Lots of people mount what is terms a "waste board" to the bed.
Something like 1/2" ply and use that as a bed.

Good thing about doing that is you can skim cut the whole machining area of the machine and it will be level to the gantry.

And if you allow extra at the side or end or both you have room to fit a fixed layer stop that you can also machine true to the X and Y axis.
If you do that I suggest pegs and screws then you can remove it if you want to drop a bigger work piece on.

Bob.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 12, 2019, 06:55 pm
Planning on using 1/4 MDF for the waste board for now. Probably go thicker once I change the Z-axis to something other than plastic and modify for a little more vert travel.

I could have stopped my goof if I had the stuff for my kill/pause/stop switches. But, it took me a second to find the button on the board mounted to the back of the machine. Stuff should be in this week though.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 12, 2019, 07:17 pm
The more you use it the more you will need those switches.
Has to be the single best mod you can add.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 15, 2019, 05:13 am
Well, I designed a little PCB for hooking up some of the wiring. So, I installed Python and bCNC so I could do auto-leveling if the PCB. Got that program working and figured out how to do the auto-leveling. Pretty neat.

Gave milling the board a go. First time through I noticed traces moved on the Y axis as though steps got missed. Stopped the process and went to looking for the issue.

One of the set screws on the Y axis coupler backed out. So I took all three couplers off and put thread locker anywhere I had missed. Which ended up just being the one set screw.

Attempt 2. The bit stopped touching the board about 45 seconds in. My dumb butt didn't check to see if the spindle was held in tight. Snugged the screw down. Powered it all off and walked away.

I'll go through the entire machine screw by screw tomorrow.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 15, 2019, 05:26 am
I think we covered the screw thing quite early on LOL
Don't feel bad I forgot to change a tool over today so I got another pass with a 4mm end instead of a 1.5 ball.

Looks a little odd in places but I will get it on the next pass.

Not really played with BCNC but it is installed...along with many similar programs I have moved away from.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 15, 2019, 01:36 pm
I think we covered the screw thing quite early on LOL
Yes. Indeed you did mention that early on. Why I missed that one single set screw with the thread locker and didn't bother checking the spindle clamp screw, I'll never know. But I did. Which makes me wonder what else I missed. Therefore, checking EVERYTHING today. Twice!

Not really played with BCNC but it is installed...along with many similar programs I have moved away from.
As I think I mentioned, I am working on a little pcb and want auto-leveling. Apparently, that feature in GRBL isn't ready. Anyway, I got an alert to that effect when I clicked on the button. So, I made a very feeble attempt at figuring out ChiliPepper. I just haven't yet found the right documentation for me to understand how that program operates. I then stumbled upon some decent information on bCNC. Seems to do the job pretty well from what I can tell at this extremely early stage.

Do you do pcb milling with auto-leveling? If so, I'd be interested to know what program a professional, such as yourself, uses.  :smiley-mr-green:
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 15, 2019, 02:17 pm
Professional...LOL..Far from that.

I don't do PCB work so if I ever do I guess you will be my GOTO  :)

Almost exclusively art type work and almost exclusively wood. (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Accentricities57/)
But sometimes I do wedge shaped parts so it may well be something worth my time looking at.

Bob.




Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 15, 2019, 02:29 pm
Professional...LOL..Far from that.

I don't do PCB work so if I ever do I guess you will be my GOTO  :)

Almost exclusively art type work and almost exclusively wood. (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Accentricities57/)
But sometimes I do wedge shaped parts so it may well be something worth my time looking at.

Bob.





Well, auto-leveling isn't just for pcb making. Think of the possibilities

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=333149)
Image "borrowed" from http://www.scorchworks.com
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 15, 2019, 02:53 pm
See now the student teaches the teacher LOL.
You got my attention.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 18, 2019, 05:05 am
A new bit of advice that may save you some money.

Unless you are 100% sure your spindle has no brushes (most of the Chinese adverts are false on this claim) then get some spare brushes...

Still working out my sizes which is a bit of a crap shoot LOL.

Spindle here slowly stopped and I figured it had just about had enough of my abusing it.
Stuck a 300w backup unit in to keep me going and ordered another 800w (dang good price so no real loss)

Thinking the slow one would be dead I stripped it down to find the brushes well past the sell by date.
It has had a hard life and something like 700 hours plus almost non stop apart from tool and job changes.

But looking like I will have two decent spares soon with a 500w and 800w on hand.

If you are only ever doing light work your hours will be much greater then mine but I was hogging out elm most of the summer.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 26, 2019, 01:21 am
Well, after trashing a couple of cheap engraving bits and 3 or 4 smallish single sided PCB blanks, I have finally made my first creation with my machine. I had to fight through some parasitic noise. Twisted the crap out of all the wires and added some ferrite rings and ran a jumper from the case of the spindle to ground. Seems to be running "OK" for now.

The cheap spindle is not good at all. With both the cheap engravers that came with it and the more expensive ones I bought, just barely touching the surface of the copper will leave about a 0.5mm circle. Maybe not quite that big. But still larger than I feel it should. Hopefully, the larger spindle (once I build a mount) won't have that much slop.

Then came the next issue that had me scratching my head. My attempts would start out pretty good. But then as the bit moved to the right more and more, it raised above the surface. Every.....dang..... time. I was thinking the issue was bCNC. So, I started researching ChiliPeppr. And once I had it figured out. Same problem.

I finally had to start eyeballing my machine as the issue. So, I used the probe feature in ChiliPeppr and set Z zero on the left side of the gantry. Then moved it to the right side and probed it again. Bingo! Almost 2mm difference from one side to the other. That was one set of measurements where I didn't have a good way to measure them. So, I took a block of wood. Drilled a hole in it. And threaded a bolt into it. Set that under the right side of the guide rod and turned the bolt til it was just touching the bottom of the rod. Moved it to the left side and adjusted the height of the guide rods on that end.

The recheck with the probe now shows a 0.02mm difference from one side to the other!

And ..... Viola!
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=334705)

I used one of the messed up boards. And have a few GND pads that ended up being isolated from the rest of the GND plane. Otherwise, I think it turned out not too bad. It's not professional. But you're not going to get that from me anytime soon!

I plan to redo it on a fresh copper. And I'm going to move the drill holes to the center of the pads. My reasoning for having them offset to one side was not well thought out :D

And don't go bad mouthing my HUGE traces! I have never done anything like this and was not sure what to expect. So, I went BIG! LOL
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 26, 2019, 01:35 am
I am impressed...
You will be spitting circuits out for fun soon.

You can see what I mean by lateral drift and runout on those cheap spindles.
They also burn out quite easily too as I don't think they have the duty cycle for most cnc jobs.

Having a sly giggle about your gantry issue...I wont say i told you so BUT.....
Hmmm now where was that cheap 10 inch digital vernier....
Oh wait that skimmed down wasteboard would have fixed that too...

Just kidding with yas ...
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 26, 2019, 01:59 am
I am impressed...
You will be spitting circuits out for fun soon.

You can see what I mean by lateral drift and runout on those cheap spindles.
They also burn out quite easily too as I don't think they have the duty cycle for most cnc jobs.

Having a sly giggle about your gantry issue...I wont say i told you so BUT.....
Hmmm now where was that cheap 10 inch digital vernier....
Oh wait that skimmed down wasteboard would have fixed that too...

Just kidding with yas ...

Dang it. I know you did!

I've got a vernier. And it wasn't until I just looked over at the machine that I figured out how I could have gotten it in there to take those measurements! But when I assembled it, I didn't see it. Wow. And it would have been so simple. Oh well. Not like I didn't already have thin and grey hair! My method worked pretty well though.

As far as a skimmed waste board. Just haven't wanted to take the time to do that part yet. I'll get to it soon though.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 26, 2019, 02:10 am
Grey is more colour than I have...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f0/4e/32/f04e32d56da8859d364d1d8eb5eefcfb.png)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 26, 2019, 08:13 pm
I took the week off. So, I have time to "play". Remilled the board last night. And started soldering things up this morning. And now I have a functioning limit switch board which incorporates LM187 optocouplers. I, also, added LEDs to help aide in troubleshooting later down the road when a switch, wire or the 5v supply inevitably goes bad. All lights out, no power from the 5v buck. One light out and no switches pressed, well, you get the point. And added another connection there for my probe. Not sure that's really needed. But figured it couldn't hurt.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=334855)

My circuit if anyone's interested
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=334857)

And my complete lack of soldering skills will remain unseen. Completely embarrassing.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 26, 2019, 08:54 pm
Still just as impressed.

Few weeks ago you were not sure which way was up on these things.

We all just gave to the basics and the rest is all down to you.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 26, 2019, 09:06 pm
Still just as impressed.

Few weeks ago you were not sure which way was up on these things.

We all just gave to the basics and the rest is all down to you.

Bob.


If you only knew how many times I have read through your advice! I have a bunch of your wisdom written in a notebook that I, for the life of me, can't seem to find. Along with pages of notes from all over the web. And 4 or 5 sets of step by step instructions hanging on the wall.

It's all part of dealing with a very bad memory. Some people's brains are like a well organized filing cabinet. They can pull out details from things they learned decades ago. My brain is closer to the city dump than a filing cabinet. The stuff is in there. I just need a map to find it. :D (i.e. my damn notebook)

And I owe you a huge thank you! Without the tutoring, I wouldn't be anywhere near being able to get this running.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 27, 2019, 01:41 pm
Ok FINAL MOD.

A DIODE.

As close to the spindle motor as possible between the Ground and the positive rail.

Did get two totally random glitches over the last two days (thought i was past that)
Cause was pretty clear as it only happened when it had finished a cut and was heading home.
Only thing that happened at that point is the spindle turns off and even then it did not always do it.

Diode types may vary depending on the voltage and amps a specific spindle pulls.
In my case a 10A10 works like a charm. A little overkill but a very easy mod often mentioned when dealing with motors.
It should prevent the spike back when the voltage is cut off.

9 hours, 4 cuts and not a peep.

Have a few diodes from board tear downs and such so was ZERO cost.

Bob.

I know you used a 10A10 diode. I know I don't have any of those. I'll have to look through my scavenged parts bins to see what I can find. What characteristics am I looking for in a a decent diode for this purpose?
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 27, 2019, 04:27 pm
Mine was also a scavenged.

Based mine on a quick look up of the amps as I run a spindle controller PSU which can throw up to 50 volts when measured.

As a rule of thumb I would say (don't quote me) base it on the max amps and voltage available to that motor.
Also a small cap across the voltage rails for the spindle.
Google has lots of examples from 1Pf up to 10 uF I went with a 10 nF.

I will gladly accept better knowledge on this one myself.

Bob.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 27, 2019, 05:09 pm
Hmm. Unsure (yet) what voltage my current controller spits out to the spindle. But, I just ran across a video of a fellow using the same 500w spindle I will eventually switch to. He was measuring the voltage output on it. At max RPM he was reading NEG 45 volts. And at low RPM he was reading POS 170 volts. I guess I'll need to eventually invest in some caps that can handle that sort of voltage.

If interested, link to vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT1Bz6mDZeI). (He starts measuring about 1:50 in to the vid)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Nov 27, 2019, 05:30 pm
Nice vid and good tip in checking and keeping the collets clean.

That said I have had a couple of bits that had run out regardless of the collet.

Those corn cob cutters are pretty neat as I have a couple here and they do work better on some materials but don't use them on plastic LOL...Ok go ahead and try it if you like the smell of molten plastic.

Most people use disc caps across motors not electrolytics.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Nov 30, 2019, 11:15 pm
Well, crud! Was running a little learning project earlier. All was going well until I look over and see smoke wafting up from behind the machine. Not sure what went. I can't "see" anything fried on the controller/Arduino. But I can no longer talk to the knock-off Arduino. So, guessing something on it let all the magic out.

Regardless, installed my back-up controller which uses an Uno and shield and does not have a plug to use the power supply that came with my machine. So, I have to figure out the best way to solve that issue. And then I think I'll be back in business.

Yay! China!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 01, 2019, 12:14 am
Seee...having that backup works great ...now you need to order a backup of the backup  :smiley-eek:  :D

If no clear signs of damage and works without anything else attached to it maybe just a driver popped.
If no worky at all on its own then El-Bin.

Order a batch / lot of UNO's sometimes even cheaper and you can never have enough arduinos   8)
5 for $15 inc shipping.

Bob.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 01, 2019, 12:44 am
I've got 7 Uno boards. But I will need to order a few of the shields though.

Have to figure out what the deal is with this setup though. Got it all hooked up and powered it up. Then reconfigured the GRBL the way I "THOUGHT" the other was configured. But jogging 1mm goes waayyy further than a mm. And it goes about 90 mph to get there. Not to mention the grinding (for lack of a better word) sound it makes in the process.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 01, 2019, 12:53 am
Sounds like the steps and acceleration figures are incorrect.

If its identical hardware just export the settings from UGS using the known good one and them import them into the dodgy one.

Power supply issues can also come into it too.

Bob.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 01, 2019, 01:48 am
Sounds like the steps and acceleration figures are incorrect.

If its identical hardware just export the settings from UGS using the known good one and them import them into the dodgy one.

Power supply issues can also come into it too.

Bob.


Turns out this new stepper shield didn't have the jumpers installed for setting the micro stepping. Guess I should have pulled the A4988 modules off and looked under them. Live and learn. Properly jumped and seems to be working correctly again.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 01, 2019, 01:55 am
Well that was an easy fix for you.

Got a ramps 1.6 on Friday so have some testing to do this week.
Hopefully my motor brushes come in too this week as it smells like a forest fire down here with the big laser running and I really need to get a spindle back up.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 01, 2019, 02:09 am
Well that was an easy fix for you.

Got a ramps 1.6 on Friday so have some testing to do this week.
Hopefully my motor brushes come in too this week as it smells like a forest fire down here with the big laser running and I really need to get a spindle back up.


I have got to get me a laser! (I grew up on wood heat. I miss the smell of wood smoke in the air.).  All in due time, I suppose. Have to get where I can actually produce something with a spindle first.

My circuit I did had an issue I couldn't find. Think I possibly overheated one of the opto-isolators. Regardless, I have a revised version in the works. Hope I can do a better job soldering it though.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 01, 2019, 02:10 am
I suppose I'll eventually look into upgrading from GRBL. So, learn all you can on the Ramps! I'll have questions one day :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 01, 2019, 02:19 am
Ramps board will be commanded by GRBL but so far just on a test bed so no real action.

Didn't want to play around swapping parts out on the 1.4 board so got one that was 24 volt compliant already.
It will be driving some TB6600 drivers I have on my shopping list for some NEMA 23's also on my shopping list.

Bit of a hybrid machine in the planning.
All stock items so easy to repair or replace.

Want to retire one of the home brew to just laser work.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 01, 2019, 09:31 pm
Hope the testing is going well!

Even with thread locker I can't seem to keep these couplers from loosening up during operation. So, ordered a new set of the clamping style. In the meantime, I'm going to tear my machine down (partially) to get good measurements on the Z axis parts. Need those to plan for getting rid of the printed parts when I upgrade to the better spindle.

Plus, I followed a video or two on how to assemble this thing. Seems those videos are wrong, IMO. With the way it's shown in photos and assembled in videos, the spindle is no where near the center of Y travel. Noticed that when getting full travel measurements for designing my waste board. Shouldn't be too difficult to remedy though.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 01, 2019, 09:40 pm
Yet the only issue I have had is when I trashed a couple by repeatedly banging it against one end.
Never had a loose one (she said)

On mine it was a X that wasn't quite right but that was just slacken two screws and move it in its slots for a few mm.

Yea a lot of the destructions have some issues...
Being a millwright I took some of them with a pinch of salt.

Not had chance to test, doing some jobs for the missus instead before I get frozen out of the garage.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 02, 2019, 04:18 am
In my reassembly to get the spindle centered, I found the issue with the couplers. At least the one that has been giving me fits. Which is the one on the Z axis. I removed that coupler and noticed that the lead screw it went to was nearly 1/8 inch higher than the motor shaft. So, there was some binding going on causing things to come loose. I added a spacer under the gantry where the lead screw mounts which got it closer to being aligned. It's not perfect. But better. I will measure everything ten ways from Sunday when I next have time to see if anything else is thrown off by that spacer. New couplers on the way are flexible. So, that should help as well.

I'll also add some pictures of how I changed the assembly to get the spindle closer to the center of the gantry in case someone else with a 3018 runs across this thread.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 27, 2019, 12:20 am
Hey Bob! Guess what was in a box on my porch when I got home a bit ago from Christmas at my brother's.

Well, if you guessed a cyclone you'd be correct. :D I found a "damaged box" Dust Deputy for cheap on eBay and ordered it because the Chinese ones that were located in the states were only about $10 cheaper.

I thought I was getting the cyclone only. I was wrong! It's the entire kit. Wheels, 2 buckets, gasket and couplers, and the cyclone. The box was indeed messed up. But the product is A-1.

Hope your Christmas was as awesome as mine this year. Great times with family and friends here. And then this.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339192)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 27, 2019, 12:31 am
Now that is a bargain !
Once you have it hooked up and manage to stop vacuuming the whole house long enough to check the bucket and your vac filter you will see how neat these things are.

There are some "tweaks" you can make for other uses but I will let you google "hydrocyclone"
PS don't be scared by the bucket doing a small amount of collapse and sudden loud noises... small adjustments to the vac flow rates on the input side are a quick fix or throw an AC controller on the vac.

Xmas has been kind here too but our xmas doesn't end until about 20th of January when we get further south.
That's the only problem living in BFN LOL.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 27, 2019, 01:16 am
Now that is a bargain !
Once you have it hooked up and manage to stop vacuuming the whole house long enough to check the bucket and your vac filter you will see how neat these things are.

There are some "tweaks" you can make for other uses but I will let you google "hydrocyclone"
PS don't be scared by the bucket doing a small amount of collapse and sudden loud noises... small adjustments to the vac flow rates on the input side are a quick fix or throw an AC controller on the vac.

Xmas has been kind here too but our xmas doesn't end until about 20th of January when we get further south.
That's the only problem living in BFN LOL.


I've heard about the "collapsing bucket" issue and have read that inserting the bucket into another bucket solves that problem. This may be the reason the DD comes with 2 buckets (along with one being for mounting the wheels to). The fan I ordered has a speed adjustment as well. I'm sure it's not the greatest fan going and won't last too awfully long. But looking to use it as a proof of concept  until it craps out. Then I'll drop some $ on a good one. The fan my buddy has is  a sub 100 cfm booster fan. So, I ordered one that claims over 400 cfm. Not that I believe that number. I don't need to lift bowling balls with the suction. So as long as it pulls dust from the CNC work area, I'll be happy.

I'm designing a box to house the fan and a micro filter that will also reduce the noise level. It will also have a gate valve so that I can switch it to blow outside when I need to vent fumes such as those from using a laser (eventually!). Or I can just have it blow out into the room as to not pump my heat outside over a 4 hour or longer run.

So far, it's been a fun project for me. It and the Z axis redesign for the larger spindle have kept me from getting into trouble during my free time!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 27, 2019, 02:01 am
Pics of the Z mods ?

Some of the small cloth vac bags make darned good filters for the ultra fine dust.
There are also the hepa filters some of which adapt great to plumbing pipes ( don't ask how I know that  :smiley-twist: )
As for heat loss I find it negligible in the house.

Garage well not the best insulation there to start with and having sat a turkey on top of the fridge in there to defrost and ending up having to do some emergency defrosting in the bathtub in time for dinner when I brought it in so we could get the nasty bits out of it should be enough of a clue.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 27, 2019, 05:17 am
Pics of the Z mods ?

Some of the small cloth vac bags make darned good filters for the ultra fine dust.
There are also the hepa filters some of which adapt great to plumbing pipes ( don't ask how I know that  :smiley-twist: )
As for heat loss I find it negligible in the house.

Garage well not the best insulation there to start with and having sat a turkey on top of the fridge in there to defrost and ending up having to do some emergency defrosting in the bathtub in time for dinner when I brought it in so we could get the nasty bits out of it should be enough of a clue.




The Z mods are still in the design phase. But basically it's an enlarged version of the 3-D plastic bits only in seasoned oak. It will be a bit wider (90mm to match the mount that came with the motor), quite a bit taller so I can mill whatever will fit under the bottom of the Z, and a bit deeper due to the larger motor. I figure, if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it the way it should have been done to begin with.

Where you use bags, I have a shop vac filter. Basically, it's a box with three chambers. Air enters the first via the hose from the cyclone where it will have to go through the shop vac filter. Second chamber holds the fan which blows out into the third through a muffler, if I can call it that. Still waiting for the fan to arrive to finalize the plans for the box.

Here is a pic from a screen cap I did shortly after putting the idea into FreeCad. It's changed somewhat. But the idea is there.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339251)

Should end up about 13"x13"x36" and mount to the bottom of my bench.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 27, 2019, 05:26 am
Yea the muffler part is missing from all mine.
But seeing yours gives me an idea and I do wish you would stop planting seeds in my head.
Got enough weeds growing up there without any more.  :smiley-lol:

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 29, 2019, 01:26 am
I got to messing with my machine again today. Fired it up and noticed a lot more vibration than usual. I think one (or both) of the bearings in the spindle are going out. Stuck a 30 degree 0.1 engraver in it and ran a very slow (30mm/m) 0.1mm deep line down a scrap piece of PCB. In a perfect world, it would have produced a very small and neat line. But the result was a line nearly 1mm wide. I fiddled with the collet thinking it could be the issue. Same result. I'm hoping it will still be close enough to machine a temporary guide block for the new spindle.

A bit disappointed even though I really shouldn't be. I mean, I did manage to get a good 7 or 8 hours out of this motor.

How's that "idea" coming along? (I would say I'm sorry. But I'm not :D)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 29, 2019, 01:43 am
Wasn't that a cheap 775 motor ?
No more than 20 rpm 2 times a day for no more than 20 milliseconds and it will last forever.
They do growl when they die.
Death throes of a wounded dragon comes to mind. Not that I have wounded many dragons just to be clear to those that think I am a violent dragon slayer...

However you did send me on an aliexpress spree.
Roll on the nice insurance cheque to cover xmas and a pre-emptive shopping extravaganza

Lucky for me it was xmas and the garage is too cold to work in for long.
Sit back and wait or do the annual bring things in from the garage and then spend twice as long moving em back in spring (whenever that is around here cos it aint the same as normal folks)

Got some of the motor brushes I ordered but unfortunately not the ones I really need.
Least I can cut or BURN BABY BURN.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 29, 2019, 02:05 am
Yup. Cheap Chinese 775. It's not making noise just yet. Hopefully it wont til I'm done milling it's replacement. (I think it knows I'm trying to get rid of it). The next thing I'm going to do with it is mill a 90mm wide by 40mm tall by 28mm thick block that will hold the Z axis guide bearings and whatnot. The mount that came with the new spindle will then bolt to that.

It might take a few weeks though. Having my 2nd Christmas tomorrow with my son and niece. And then I have to move one of my aquariums to a new stand before the one it's on collapses. That'll be a most of a day job. There's always something that needs done. I sometimes wish I could act like a millennial and leave the responsibilities to someone else! (But then nothing would get done)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 29, 2019, 02:11 am
My next spindle will have to have the easy to replace brushes.
Not too happy with the fiddling around to do a couple of these motors.

Although they did outlast the 775 by a zillion times.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 29, 2019, 02:42 am
My next spindle will have to have the easy to replace brushes.
Not too happy with the fiddling around to do a couple of these motors.

Although they did outlast the 775 by a zillion times.


I think a huge part of the problem with mine was the fact I don't have dust collection yet. That fine dust got in there and mucked it up.

I soon as I can mill one of these ...
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339494)

things should be better. I won't say perfect or great. Just better. Don't want to jinx anything!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 29, 2019, 03:54 am
Even with crossflow dust collection the 775 wasn't that great and had too much play to be anything other than something to start with at least.

Still not needed to make another block yet and have a collection of those large motor holders gathering dust.
Yours looks like a great jumping off point.

BTW if you have some taps it is worth drill and tap a small hole between the two clamp holes on those motor mounts.
To use as a jack screw for when you want to adjust the motor up or down.

Otherwise you will end up using flat screwdrivers like I did for a while.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 29, 2019, 04:54 am
Even with crossflow dust collection the 775 wasn't that great and had too much play to be anything other than something to start with at least.

Still not needed to make another block yet and have a collection of those large motor holders gathering dust.
Yours looks like a great jumping off point.

BTW if you have some taps it is worth drill and tap a small hole between the two clamp holes on those motor mounts.
To use as a jack screw for when you want to adjust the motor up or down.

Otherwise you will end up using flat screwdrivers like I did for a while.




Funny you should mention the drilling and tapping. I've been sitting here staring at my computer trying to figure out the best way for me to connect the 2 parts. I don't own a drill press (yet). So, drilling and tapping may be an issue. I'm tossing around the idea of milling out an area for nuts and super-gluing them in. I would have to buy longer bolts. But I think I'll have to get longer ones regardless as the ones that came with the mount only stick out of it about 10mm or so. I think you get what I'm saying. But if not, here's a pic.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339497)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339505)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 29, 2019, 02:54 pm
Given that the back part is wood how about those threaded inserts with teeth.

(https://img0.fastenal.com/productimages/11138940.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/716jTviT89L._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 29, 2019, 03:08 pm
That should allow you to use the screws that come with the mounts which makes the heads face you rather than need a seperate spanner (wrench for the heathens)

Am lucky enough to have picked up an older stand drill (built like a tank) for a song at a yard sale.
Only needed a new belt and a drop of lube (Not that lube sheesh) and is 110v with enough grunt to diamond cut rock. (another hobby sort of)
If you ever get the change they can be invaluable.
Doesn't even need to be a long pillar type (mine is a short version)



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 29, 2019, 10:47 pm
Given that the back part is wood how about those threaded inserts with teeth.

(https://img0.fastenal.com/productimages/11138940.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/716jTviT89L._SX425_.jpg)
Those options never occurred to me. Wish I were more patient. I had already ordered my bolts by the time you posted that. Those brass do-hickeys would have been right proper for the job. Oh well.

The method I impatiently opted for won't need a sp..... wrench (Yup. I'm a heathen). The nuts will be glued in place in the recesses on the back with T6 x 80mm allen head bolts. They won't go anywhere.

Within the next year, I hope to buy a new place with at the very least a large shed to have a shop in. For now, I'm using about 6'x8' of what I call my spare room. But in reality there's really no room to spare! Once I get a shop, I'll be able to keep my eyes open for those deals like your "stand" drill (We call them drill presses here in heathen land. The tall ones are "floor model' and short are bench top). Unfortunately, around me, folks tend to think those older machines are antiques made of gold and demand top dollar.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 30, 2019, 02:24 am
Unfortunately I suffer the same sort of reasoning "you are too far north and no matter how beat up my gear is you WILL pay over the odds to buy it from me"

Luckily we get trips further south where that scenario is the other way around and prices are competitive or occasionally downright cheap.

Not quite as cramped as you but am almost within arms reach of almost everything for the CNC's and Arduino.
At least until spring then I can spread my wings a little more.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 31, 2019, 02:40 am
Finally got my inline fan unit today. And as I feared, it won't work as a filter fan. It moves plenty of air until there is some sort of restriction (such as a filter and 2.5" hose). Then it falls on it's face. Through the filter and a section of hose it barely produced enough "vacuum" to pick up a piece of paper. All is not lost though. I have another use for the fan unit that's more toward what it was designed for.

So, back to the drawing board on designing a quiet dust collection system. :(
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 31, 2019, 04:41 am
Well that's a dang shame.

Small pre and post fans ?
That's my approach both 12 volts decent CFM computer fans with the 120 volt in the ceiling.

It was also the approach I used in the garage with a pre fan but no post fan as it just vents to outside anyway.
One in the garage has a small air splitter which I didn't think would work as well as it does.

Sort of looks like the end of a spade drill bit but much larger and made of wood with half its leading edge wedged one way and the other half the other way.
It shows well with fine dust spinning before it even hits the fan blades and causes a small pre vortex effect.
You sometimes see similar things in front of large industrial fans which is where i took the idea from.

Tried wing shaped vanes on a prototype in a shutter type affair but didn't give me the effects I was looking for.

Any "main" fan should really be AFTER the cyclone and as close to the cyclone as possible but guessing you got that figured.

I should really have drawings but 90% of these gadgets I come up with are made on the fly as a proto and usually the second variation is thrown right into production. Mostly just a re-hash of version one LOL...
No paint and full of screw holes, battle scars left from V1 with maybe some acrylic sealant thrown in for good measure.

However you do it don't forget rubber mountings for bigger fans to help kill the noise. Well worth a minor investment.




Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 31, 2019, 06:48 am
I think my goal may just be unobtainable (at least with my budget). Starting to think the phrase "Quiet and dust collection can't be used in the same sentence" may be true. It would seem that moving a lot of air inherently produces a lot of noise. The more you move, the more noise you make. And from my research, to make a cyclone truly effective one needs quite a bit of air flow.

The conundrum I'm in is I don't want to go the shop vac route. Way too loud and not designed to run the entire time for a possibly 6+ hour CNC job. And true dust collectors are complete overkill for my current situation. Not to mention the price.

So, for the time being, I think I'm going to run this inline fan with a HEPA filter just to catch the fine dust. That's really what started me down this path anyway. That will let me complete a couple of projects I want to do. And I'll have plenty of time to really research and plan.

But for the moment, I'm kind of entertaining the idea of doing something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBxFNUWD2GQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBxFNUWD2GQ)

only on a smaller (and hopefully quieter) scale!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 31, 2019, 02:49 pm
LOL have built a few of those in steel for fibre transfer in a non woven processing plant
You really have to watch the balance both static and dynamic.
Otherwise you will have some massive vibration even at lower rpm.

To overcome that a smaller one with a larger motor is often the cure.
Or you can pick up a smaller squirrel cage / centrifugal one just for inline duct work.
Or snag one from  a scrap yard out of a truck or similar from the heater box.

Have a partially built prototype in the garage with a fan taken from a residential heater (salvage)
Sidelined as I could not be assed making the SQ to RND box up.

They are generally quieter though if mounted correctly.
Consider ebay or aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038144071.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000013.11.687b2c93AQaj7t&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.146401.0&scm_id=1007.13339.146401.0&scm-url=1007.13339.146401.0&pvid=34ae22c3-245b-4864-92a7-67cda86e5b01) etc. too

Sort of a side thought is one of those cheaper car vacuum.
Generally quieter and easier to integrate and small enough to be placed inside a box lined with closed cell foam for additional soundproofing.





Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 31, 2019, 04:55 pm
They are generally quieter though if mounted correctly.
Consider ebay or aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038144071.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000013.11.687b2c93AQaj7t&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.146401.0&scm_id=1007.13339.146401.0&scm-url=1007.13339.146401.0&pvid=34ae22c3-245b-4864-92a7-67cda86e5b01) etc. too
I have looked around on YouTube for video of one of those in action. Have found a similar one, albeit 230V, in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGRBh9QAUds). Just wondering how the 24V model compares in regards to noise. And I know better than to think there is a video out there that compares the 2 side by side. Which would be the only way to really get an idea of noise levels.

The specs show the 240V does a little better CFM (264 vs 212). But 240V is not an option in my case. And at the price listed on Ali for that unit, I can't help but wonder what kind of problems it has. Those sell for over $100 new (unless ordering from China @ $30).

However, I doubt I could build one in less time and for less money than the one in China. And I know for a fact it wouldn't be as quiet or efficient. So, one of these (eBay link (https://www.ebay.com/itm/for-1-pcs-Centrifugal-Fan-for-ebm-Turbofan-R1G133-AA17-08-24V-1-2A-133-72mm/123215457692?hash=item1cb036ad9c:g:GP0AAOSw8fRbMu9j)) has moved to the top of my list.

Once again, I appreciate you sharing your years of experience! And if you have any thoughts at all on all this, I'm all ears. Well, all eyes.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 31, 2019, 08:12 pm
Upon further review, the one I linked to in China is not new either. Says "Open Box". But one can clearly see the chord has been cut and there's dirt on the fins (or possibly eroded paint).
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 31, 2019, 08:21 pm
Dig around for another one.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 31, 2019, 08:57 pm
I just pulled the trigger on the one on AE (seemed like they were more honest). And, if for whatever reason, this doesn't work all that well and I decide to try a different route, I can easily get my investment back on eBay. As long as someone out there needs one of these.

It's German made. So, can't go wrong there. And from what I've read, about the only thing that goes wrong on these is the bearings. And I believe they're replaceable. If it meets my requirements and something goes wrong later on, I won't hesitate to drop $100+ on a new unit.

While researching I came across something you may be interested in. Who am I kidding? You probably came up with the original formulas for this!

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339878)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 31, 2019, 10:54 pm
LOL I don't invent so much as I just recycle ideas from industry into smaller scales.

Scroll cases are an absolute pig to make and weld especially out of stainless !
Thank god somebody came up with a template.

Not as bad as a spiral staircase though for 3 floors with a single central column built in situ.
Still have nightmares thinking about the handrails on that one and pity the poor sod that ever cuts a stay on the central handrail.
Still thats back in the UK so somebody else's problem.

But while on the subject LOL.
These two push excess hot air from the laundry room to the garage just enough to stop the pipes freezing and add about 5'C to the whole garage. Been running for over a year as I forgot to turn them off after last winter.
Another not quite finished project to add hot water heating in the garage with a take off from the existing hot water heating, but too late now.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339892)

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=339894)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Dec 31, 2019, 11:11 pm
These two push excess hot air from the laundry room to the garage just enough to stop the pipes freezing and add about 5'C to the whole garage. Been running for over a year as I forgot to turn them off after last winter.
Another not quite finished project to add hot water heating in the garage with a take off from the existing hot water heating, but too late now.
It's a shame you don't know someone who could program an Arduino to turn those on when the temp drops below a certain level in the garage
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Dec 31, 2019, 11:37 pm
Ahern the electronics are all done and boxed up ready.

I have two 12 volt solenoids to fit on the main water feeds to act as diverters for the temperature sensor that is already in place.
There is also a backup MKR1000 in the garage streaming data to thingspeak as a fallback on / off control.

But if you think I am going to lay down on the garage floor to solder that last few bits of pipe in this temperature you have the wrong guy.

They would be on full time right now anyway just forgot to hit the bypass sw for summer.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 01, 2020, 01:23 am
I figured you had something going on with a controller. Couldn't make out anything in those pics though.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 01, 2020, 01:29 am
Yea new phone is long overdue...
xmas spirits don't help much either.

Happy new year.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 02, 2020, 05:38 am
OK I am not "all that"...Tesla coil generator in a shower of sparks and magic smoke...back to drawing board for bigger trannies and more juice....don't cross the streams or let the coils touch same thing !

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 02, 2020, 05:41 am
OK I am not "all that"...Tesla coil generator in a shower of sparks and magic smoke...back to drawing board for bigger trannies and more juice....don't cross the streams or let the coils touch same thing !


Been knocking a few back? :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 02, 2020, 08:12 pm
Found a wood that my machine won't Mill.

It's off of a blank of ash that my grandfather cut for making baseball bats in 1982(+/-). My buddy tried to run it through his jointer. Made it about a foot over the course of 30 seconds or so. And that was a struggle. Machine kept bogging down.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=340176)

I cut this piece out with my miter saw and had to go very slowly. Then tried it out on the CNC. First with a 6mm end mill. For what I want to do, it has to be plunged 1mm at a time. That was not happening. You can see the burnt ring. And yes, it was turning the correct direction.

The other 2 marks are with a 3 mm drilling bit. It would plung but wouldn't really cut well horizontally (at a speed of 10mm/min). Of course, it's not really designed for that.

So, I'm going to put this bit of wood on the shelf for now and find something a bit softer. And I need to look into how to get my paths to gradually ramp down instead of plunging straight down. Not sure that's possible in FreeCAD. But I'll figure something out.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 02, 2020, 08:42 pm
Ash and Elm have to be about the hardest I have worked and yes they will test your machine to the limits.

The grain structures are so intertwined.
4 flute tool is best for plunging into that stuff I found.
I use a 6mm 4 flute for roughing. and also got some 2 and 4 mm ones.
Make sure they are the ones with one full single cutting edge not the ones with a 4 way split end.

(https://image.made-in-china.com/202f0j00gpNGhBPRHrbJ/High-Hardness-Tungsten-Carbide-End-Mill-for-Cutting-Tool-HRC55.jpg)

Best investment I made in tools and last a very long time.
Only managed to bend one slightly (my own mistake) and never broken one yet.

Either that or a dual flute ball end.
(https://www.promaxtools.com/includes/work/image_cache/2c5e2a493726b18469bb9f151f34b9e7.thumb.png)

Machining wood will finish of that spindle LOL

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 02, 2020, 09:25 pm
My end mills are 4 fluted. But appear to have all 4 cutting edges the same length.

I hope to get this project done before the spindle goes! Then I'll be able to mount the new one. Just going to use some regular ole plywood. It'll be good enough to make it again out of a better wood.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 02, 2020, 11:23 pm
My program has the "add ramping moves" setting for any plunge cuts but it is rare I need it since the tool changes I made.

This is in ELM.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=340203)

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 02, 2020, 11:28 pm
I gave up on the ones with a centre gap for the same issue you are having.
They are fine for anything flat where you are coming in off the edge but otherwise do need to be ramped.

If you have any router bits they can be useful too.
Just have to take your time with those on feeds and need a good chunk of RPM which wont help your motor.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 02, 2020, 11:33 pm
Maybe by this time next year this machine will be able to do smaller versions of something like that.

Just had an idea!

I'll build/buy a machine capable of milling aluminum. And start designing and selling "upgrade kits" for these cheap machines. Bet I could make $3 or $4 a month in extra income. That's enough for a couple beers!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 02, 2020, 11:34 pm
I have all kinds of router bits. Never gave them a thought. Have to see if I have something small enough.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 03, 2020, 03:02 am
LOL that went to the UK for a lot more $ than that.
They sent me some very rough artwork and I worked with them over three countries to make it happen.
Very custom piece.

As for upgrade kits that is not such a bad idea.
Once you played with these things you spot clear weaknesses that don't take a lot to improve.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 11, 2020, 12:06 am
This is the dimensions of the Z axis mounting block(??) I decided to create in order to temporarily mount the new spindle motor and aluminum mount.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=341392)
The distance between the 15mm diameter holes for the bearings is 38mm (forgot that dim).

With the way I have my machine set up at the moment (thick waste board), I have to mill this in at least 2 layers. I chose to use plywood (15mm) that I have on hand. So, I will have 3 layers (a 14mm thick and two 13mm thick parts totaling 40mm) that will be glued together.

Hope it is of use to someone.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=341418)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 11, 2020, 01:33 am
See I told you yours was better than mine...Cigarette packet is probably in the bin by now if I made it that far.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 11, 2020, 06:58 pm
So had some bits of tile left from a recent bathroom project and also recently dialed in the bigger laser...
About 0.5 - 0.6 deep.

Of course the wife saw it and now I have to gather up all the tile bits from the cold garage.


(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=341505)

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 11, 2020, 07:27 pm
So had some bits of tile left from a recent bathroom project and also recently dialed in the bigger laser...
About 0.5 - 0.6 deep.

Of course the wife saw it and now I have to gather up all the tile bits from the cold garage.


(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=341505)


Remind me again what size you are referring to when you say "bigger laser".

If I got one, I would want it to be able to cut through clear acrylic. And from what little research I've done thus far, I think that will be out of my price range for a "hobbyist machine". I could be wrong. 

And that looks pretty darn good, BTW.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 11, 2020, 07:54 pm
15W blue.

I got it as part of a package deal on the 3525 (not too many of those about but a great size for most work).

A 5 W would not do much to tile apart from lighter markings.
A 10 W with a slow feed would do it. on tile.

Not tried plexiglass yet as not needed any for projects.
Maybe I should snag some to play with.
Going down south next week so I may snag some bits to destroy...erm make something important.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 13, 2020, 05:41 am
Ok I did gon an dun it (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32843836631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a104c4dkxQcfB) !
That's only half of it LOL.

There is a 3d printer, a cheap DSO, A cheap hdcam to do some tutorial type stuff and a shhhhh load of other goodies.

Nearly got a 6040 but simply dont have the room.
Did get the DQ model with the MACH control box but will be looking to run it from GRBL on one of those MEGA's.

Wife was all in on the whole thing but I do have to make a tile business card (Flintstones I figure) as part of the negotiations...Did take her out before she said yes though so there may have been some alcohol involved.
Yea I know it was a low down trick but worth it.  :smiley-twist:




Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 13, 2020, 08:25 pm
Ok I did gon an dun it (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32843836631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a104c4dkxQcfB) !
That's only half of it LOL.

There is a 3d printer, a cheap DSO, A cheap hdcam to do some tutorial type stuff and a shhhhh load of other goodies.

Nearly got a 6040 but simply dont have the room.
Did get the DQ model with the MACH control box but will be looking to run it from GRBL on one of those MEGA's.

Wife was all in on the whole thing but I do have to make a tile business card (Flintstones I figure) as part of the negotiations...Did take her out before she said yes though so there may have been some alcohol involved.
Yea I know it was a low down trick but worth it.  :smiley-twist:





lol. If I were married and the wife "allowed" me to do that, I would be wondering what she feels guilty about. :D



You mention Mach. But the comments below that machine on Ali say it won't work with Mach (or something to that effect). Regardless, it'll be interesting to see what that machine is capable of.  Keep me informed! I have ideas for future upgrades to my 3018. However, I doubt I do them. The money would be better spent on a real (and larger) machine I think. Possibly a DIY machine with at least Nema 23s, if not bigger (or even servos).

And not to change the subject, I did some research  and a 10 watt laser (maybe smaller) will cut acrylic  as long as it's not clear. Clear takes a whole different breed of laser(Co2 is generally used).
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 13, 2020, 09:52 pm
The money came from an insurance pay out I was told I would never get.
Officially it was my money but I played it safe.
Rest of it will cover XMAS and a few other things.

It is a MACH box that comes with it but I wont be using that if all goes well with the ramps 1.6 board.
If not then I have that box to fall back on.

There is a sneaky way around some clear materials which is to use masking tape to absorb the light better.
Mixed success with that here and green painters tape seemed the best.

10W is certainly enough to faintly mark clear glass with painters tape.
A lot will also depend on thickness too.
Second cuts can be hit and miss depending on the plastic.
CO2 will zap it pretty well and I did consider getting one until I realised overall upkeep was a little higher than I was prepared to lay out.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 13, 2020, 10:06 pm
CO2 will zap it pretty well and I did consider getting one until I realised overall upkeep was a little higher than I was prepared to lay out.
Overall price makes it unrealistic for me. Maybe if I were going to make a business out of it. But not as a hobby.

I'll have to keep the tape tip in mind if/when I decide to get a laser.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 26, 2020, 03:35 pm
Well I now have a healthy set of spare-spares...
Tore down my first ever machine which was based on drawer runners and aluminium blind frames.
It had been slowly cannibalised for bits anyway and was mostly NEMA 14 motors snagged at a bargain price.

Latest acquisition after a trip down south is these little babies $2.50 each x 4 so hard to resist and a very
healthy > 185 CFM made it a no brainer.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=343640)

Also just torn down a rescued Dyson Animal vac...But that will have to be boxed for noise abatement  :smiley-lol:

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 27, 2020, 02:53 am
You've mentioned, on more than one occasion, a "trip down south"? Where's down south, if you don't mind me asking?

Looks like you got a few bargains.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 27, 2020, 03:11 am
For me it is Southern Ontario (civilisation)
Ok anywhere 4 hours south of me is civilisation to be honest.

Or 5 hours east to Montreal the land of naked waitress diners and great shopping.



 
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 29, 2020, 03:38 pm
Grandpa got one of his toys yesterday....
Software that came with it is clearly pirate.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=344119)

I feel there will be an upgrade required but already have my eye on a sweet little gadget (https://www.tindie.com/products/Ron/arduino-grbl-to-db25-cnc-shield-kit/) that will take out a lot of the stress.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 30, 2020, 01:03 am
Seems a little "old school" to those of us that are not in the know.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 30, 2020, 01:27 am
It came with a parallel to USB cable.
Turns out its not just any cable but has embedded electronics and acts more like a software dongle (always hated those).
First sign of an upgrade or change to the software and it dives back into demo mode (25 lines of g-code max).

Starting to play a little with LinuxCNC as that is supposed to work regardless of the cable type but its all greek to me.

Don't want to open the control box just yet until I get some feedback from the supplier and of course its the Chinese new year so that wont be soon.

Have had it moving in jog mode and it sounds quite beefy.

So until the Chinese play ball I am looking at other options to play with.
I do like the idea of a GRBL middleman approach with that adaptor though.
And at that price its worth it just to play with...

Which brings me to package two that arrived today !
The 3d printer is here but not wanting to open the box until I get the other CNC doing something.
Yep wife asked about the 4th axis so no guesses where that is whizzing around in here head.

Retired my second ever machine (another home brew with multiple sleds for spindle,laser,drawing etc.) but going to keep that intact as it is a pretty sturdy and useful machine.
Might see if my son wants it to play with but I know he has no room for it just yet.

Oh and NO you cannot look after it for me.
I see those gears spinning in your head.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 30, 2020, 02:39 am
Oh and NO you cannot look after it for me.
I see those gears spinning in your head.
:D :D : D

I've been eyeballing a 3D printer myself. Possibly a Creality Ender 3 in my future. I'm not sold on the 5 yet. But I like what I've seen of the 3 and what it can do for the price. Several upgrades I've been looking at for it too.

I've GOT ot to get the CNC finished the way I want it before I go after another learning project like a printer. And the alarm for the truck. Fried my transistor and misplaced my stash I bought back in July. I'll have to tear through all my storage containers this weekend to find them. Bet they'll be in the last place I look for them.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 30, 2020, 05:38 am
This is the one I got. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008792746.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.49334c4d9yoOXL)
Nothing special (not at that price LOL)

But its a beginning and I have a list of things I want it to spit out for the CNC's.
Nothing load bearing just bases and covers for things.
Also some adaptors for those fans with the good cfm.

BTW I did not pay all that for shipping either LOL...
They had it on with free shipping when I got it, then wanted extra cos they said I was in a remote location.
Threatened to pull out and report them to Ali and they stuck to the original deal.
Pretty fast delivery.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 30, 2020, 11:36 am
This is the one I got. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008792746.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.49334c4d9yoOXL)
Nothing special (not at that price LOL)
I hope you found somewhere that had better specs listed for that machine. lol. With what I can see on my cell, I can't tell much about it. Just print speed really.

And judging by the post above this one, I think the seller might be stalking you. :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 31, 2020, 03:49 pm
Ok LARGE word of WARNING....

Don't get the 3d printer I got.
Been following a video from the manufacturer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms-2rY_ad78) for its build and know 100% why there is not sound track.
Also why i though the guy was maybe not the best actor / employee to build it.
Think He was also chosen for his small size to make the machine look bigger than it really is.

Going to guess there were a zillion takes for every nut and bolt used.
Also going to guess they removed about four hours of expletives of varying degrees.

I went through more positions than the Karma Sutra trying to get some of the nuts and bolts together.

PS the main frame is plywood and structurally weak in so many areas I may have to order a tanker of wood glue and a truck of wood to make it "millwright" compliant.

The "optical" rods are actually just thin wall tube and certainly not as straight as they could be.
Will be replacing them with some of my other machine salvage.

The stepper couplings (cannot really call them that) are pieces of plastic pipe so more of my salvage required to overcome that.

The lead screws well lets just say they are slacker than a tarts knickers in the nut and seem to be just a fine metric thread not best suited with all that play for any real accuracy.

The heatsinks on the board look like somebody stuck some glue on the chips then dipped it in a bag of heatsinks to see what would stick.

I know a 3D printer doesn't come under as much stress as our CNC machines and I also know I didn't pay a lot for it. After all its a learning machine to me and will be used as such.
But regardless its pretty poor all round.

if you want to get one at any time get one that is mostly or completely built it will improve your sanity and keep stress / blood levels to an acceptable level.

I wish my cheap go-pro clone had arrived as I would have done an unbox and build video for you tube.
It may have had to be posted as ADULT SUPERVISION ONLY or PG etc. or maybe even XXX just to get the soundtrack past the film board.

Will add some of my bad pics to this post at some time but meanwhile I am sipping a tea also infused with a speshul erb  ;D to recover from the mech build...

In the next episode of wotnottobuy I will try cover the electrickery bits.

My only good news from last night was the new machine did its first full test run.
Completion time wise I was very impressed and the accuracy and finish was really good.
Noise wise not so much and something I may need to address with some rubber dampers in a couple of places.

Anyway less of my shenanigans.
Have you finished your upgrade ?



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Jan 31, 2020, 10:38 pm
OMG!!!! That's friggin hilarious! I'm in stitches.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=344425)
I "almost" got the upgrade completed. Was on the last part of milling the final piece and the machine went on a walkabout. Lucky it didn't break something. I'll upload a pic later when I get home.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 01, 2020, 02:33 am
Here's the result of the machine doing whatever it felt like
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=344469)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 07, 2020, 02:09 am
Dang you Bob!

Creality has the Ender 3 Pro for $214/free shipping. Thanks to you putting the bug in my ear (and that price), I should have a 3D printer at the house in 3-5 business days. Guess I need to go order a spool of filament now. Well, after I look into who offers a "decent" filament at an affordable price. I'm not going to burn through high dollar stuff just to throw it in the trash because I don't have a clue what I'm doing yet.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: CrossRoads on Feb 07, 2020, 02:16 am
https://www.microcenter.com/ (https://www.microcenter.com/) has good prices on PLA, unless you're going to buy a spool locally to get started.
Does the print come with a spool? Some companies provide some.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 07, 2020, 04:36 am
Teee heee...That's Karma for you.

Mine is currently in dispute as it requires 8 new RODS not thin bendy tube, A new display board as the buttons are defective, A new motherboard as the Z-Axis has one failed driver (from new), and a new extruder head as that was also pooched from new. Provided the evidence so if I get a refund from that then something better for sure...If not then it gets upgraded from its current build at no extra cost to me.

So you are going to be printing waaay before me.

Also in dispute over a cheap chinese go-pro clone that's currently on go-slow no-worky mode.
Didn't expect much from it anyway and looks like I am getting a refund on that one too.

I did snag a 1Kg spool at $13 on Ali but I will be looking elsewhere for future supplies as it still comes in at $18 inc shipping.
Wife has a PRIME account so may keep my eyes on any deals there.

On the plus side the 3040 is performing well and I have not opened up the control yet to see what else I can sneak in there.
Only disadvantage right now is I have to change the post processor as the initial feeds are off the chart from Artcam.  So either I have to change every tool setting which means they wont be the same for GRBL or dig a little deeper in the current software to see if I can change something in there.

Last few days have been Indian culinary classes. Sort of like a date night but we get to stay in and pig out on the goodies after everything in the kitchen gets covered in flour (mostly me). We didn't set of the smoke alarm either which is usually a sign that supper is ready in this house. Also weather up here has been remarkably kind so made it into the garage for a few days too..So far mildest winter I have seen up here.





Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 07, 2020, 01:22 pm
https://www.microcenter.com/ (https://www.microcenter.com/) has good prices on PLA, unless you're going to buy a spool locally to get started.
Does the print come with a spool? Some companies provide some.

No, the printer only comes with a sample of filament.

I have a Microcenter not far from me. Or maybe used to have one. Haven't been up there in some time now.

I was reading the reviews on Amazon about their Inland filament. Seems a few folks are having issues with it recently.  There's mention that the supplier was changed and it's not as good as it used to be. Have you ran in to any issues with it lately?
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 07, 2020, 01:33 pm
Teee heee...That's Karma for you.

Mine is currently in dispute as it requires 8 new RODS not thin bendy tube, A new display board as the buttons are defective, A new motherboard as the Z-Axis has one failed driver (from new), and a new extruder head as that was also pooched from new. Provided the evidence so if I get a refund from that then something better for sure...If not then it gets upgraded from its current build at no extra cost to me.

Sounds like they took a box of failed/damaged parts and assembled it into a machine in hopes that whoever got it wouldn't be smart enough to send it back.

I'm not a fan of Indian food. Well, not crazy about the few things I've tried anyway. So, don't worry about me showing up unannounced on Indian night at the ballscrew house. :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 07, 2020, 02:09 pm
After reading up some more...(ed urts)

It seems this particular model comes in two flavours.
One that is a good build with decent parts
And a clone of a clone of a clone ?!

Both are similar prices and look almost identical.
The better one is seemingly a good starter pack requiring just a few minor tweaks for decent results.
This one seems to need a box of C4 and roadrunner to light the fuse.



You have to be introduced to indian food by somebody with a little appreciation to get to know it.
Wife had never touched the stuff before she met me and now she is hooked.
It is also good for the immune system with so many herbs and spices used.
For spices dont read volcano in the mouth but an appreciation of flavours.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 07, 2020, 04:02 pm
https://www.microcenter.com/ (https://www.microcenter.com/) has good prices on PLA, unless you're going to buy a spool locally to get started.
Does the print come with a spool? Some companies provide some.

I watched several vids on filament and it seems Zyltech is pretty decent for the price. So, I ordered 2 spools from them. Once I have some knowledge, I will probably at least try the MC Inland stuff.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 07, 2020, 04:55 pm
Shouldn't you be fixing the wandering spindle bug first

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f784514d41704d9ecc3cff0f9e1ab234/tenor.gif?itemid=4866942)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 07, 2020, 11:13 pm
That's the goal for this weekend!
Shouldn't you be fixing the wandering spindle bug first

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f784514d41704d9ecc3cff0f9e1ab234/tenor.gif?itemid=4866942)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 07, 2020, 11:23 pm
Crap! They shipped the printer via FedWrex. The odds of it arriving undamaged just went waaayy down.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 08, 2020, 12:21 am
LOL better them than DHL's extra charges.

Well we got lost and had to ship it to Africa first so that's another $200.
Then our driver needed lunch so that's another $50.
Oh and we need new tires on the truck so you have to buy at least one of them and that's another $300.
Wait we forgot to add our secret charges and they are about what you paid for whatever is in this box so lets just guess that one and throw another $300 on that.

Our calculator is broken so lets just say $3,000 in extras...
Of course we could settle for your fist born or soul whichever you prefer.

Had DHL pass my house with the package and send it on a wild trip with about an extra 900 KM.
Also had the secret charges that they say are for customs that they must collect but probably dont declare.

Prefer FedEx any day of the week.




Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 08, 2020, 01:23 am
LOL better them than DHL's extra charges.

Well we got lost and had to ship it to Africa first so that's another $200.
Then our driver needed lunch so that's another $50.
Oh and we need new tires on the truck so you have to buy at least one of them and that's another $300.
Wait we forgot to add our secret charges and they are about what you paid for whatever is in this box so lets just guess that one and throw another $300 on that.

Our calculator is broken so lets just say $3,000 in extras...
Of course we could settle for your fist born or soul whichever you prefer.

Had DHL pass my house with the package and send it on a wild trip with about an extra 900 KM.
Also had the secret charges that they say are for customs that they must collect but probably dont declare.

Prefer FedEx any day of the week.





LMAO. I've only had one item that I can remember delivered by DHL. I didn't have any additional charges. But it did take nearly 3 weeks to go from Atlanta, GA to Columbus, OH.  Forest Gump could have delivered it faster on foot.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 08, 2020, 07:30 am
I was at one point (probably unreliable) told that DHS tagged into the (Aherm) customs fees an "Administration charge" that was usually close to a third or more of the actual fees.

FedEx documentation handling services for sending important docs etc. around the world are one of the best I have ever used.

Anyway I managed to fix the extruder issue after finding an obscure post about filing off and edge on one of the parts.
So it finally spat out some gunky junky plastic.

Found a new issue in that the screw they supply to hit the Z limit switch will never actually hit it even with the bed screwed down a bit to give it a little more room.

Finding an M3 threaded rod more than 50mm long is going to be a PITA so I smell a bodge job coming on to raise the switch instead.

If I can get that far I might be able to smear some molten plastic around.
It aint gonna be pretty but it will tell me if I am going to keep it and let them throw some new parts my way.

Still seems to be missing some quite important features from the menus so I suspect some of the problems may be firmware related.
Not going to touch that side until I know for sure where the dispute is going as it looks like you need an Arduino, A usbtiny, a degree in Arduino board management, a 10 to 6 pin ISP adaptor and a degree in Marlin firmware.

Just sort of peck away at the printer between butchering the Dyson Animal.
Yep thats its actual product name but it has been tamed and reduced to a whimpering puppy in terms of weight and stature. Gone are all those fancy electronic gubbins and sensors for this an that. Just a regular on/off switch.
It will get a speed control though for the motor as that will let me control the vac flow better and at $1.20 ea from my fave online I am getting batch of em for $1.14 ea. They have a bit of extra capacity too so I should be able to avoid a magic smoke incident.

Already decided where its kennel is going to be as there is a dead spot under a short flight of stairs that needs to be filled.
May even give it an extra cyclone to mate with and keep it company. It will save having to empty the litter box often too.
Oh and there is a nice 3d printable filter case for some of these vacs so you can roll your own.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 08, 2020, 01:07 pm
With all the issues you have found (and had thrown at you) with that 3D printer, one thing I would really look into is thermal runaway protection. I doubt it has any whatsoever. The machine I ordered is touted on their website as having it. But everything I have read and watched has said it doesn't until a Marlin firmware update is done. Which will be the first thing I do once it is able to be powered up.

As for the CNC, I should have the mount for the new spindle milled out completely by the end of the day. And my blower motor arrived yesterday. It's smaller than I imagined it. I ended up ordering one from here in the states and paid quite a bit more than the one in China.

Once I figured out a way to get the tracking number I was given to work, I found that the seller in China shipped the one I had ordered 3 days after I ordered it. Then it sat for a week at their customs before being returned to the seller. Then the seller just sat on it for 3 weeks without reshipping it or informing me. I opened a dispute with AliExpress and had my money back in 2 days. So, my first ever online shopping issue went pretty well. But my first AE purchase was crap. Not sure I'll use them again. But I probably will if I really need something on the cheap.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 08, 2020, 01:21 pm
Not too concerned with the runaway as I know it is capable of 24 volt and have a 30 amp spare from the other CNC tear down. That was put through its paces and some and will drop right in.

Big pet peeve this week is I have a list of mods for things that would really benefit from a 3d printer so they are all on hold.

Accidentally machined STEEL yesterday on the bigger CNC.
Not much just skimmed the top of a clamp but it never even flinched.
Ohhh look shiney let me have some of that  :)
That tells me that with careful planning it wont mind doing some ally.

Another of my toys from the BIG SPLURGE arrived yesterday.
Grandpa has a cheap DSO.
Nothing special but more than enough for my needs.
Had more packing than Magic Mike.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 08, 2020, 01:41 pm
If you're good with it, that's what matters. But I'm way too green with electronics to be comfortable without some sort of protection from a runaway situation. Especially on a long unattended print. A lot of fires have started by the hot end on these cheap 3D printers.

On a side note, a question ... Why do folks in the UK pronounce aluminum "Al you mini um" when there is no "i" in the latter part of the word? A LU MIN UM :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 08, 2020, 01:49 pm
On a side note, a question ... Why do folks in the UK pronounce aluminum "Al you mini um" when there is no "i" in the latter part of the word? A LU MIN UM :D
You said it "LATTER PART" of the world.

Don't even get me started on the alphabet and the general bastardisation of the English language.
or the Imperial, Metric, Murican weights and measures.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/609d77515bdceb4ae65e2418a815e1f9/tenor.gif)

A fave quote of mine is that "We have crappers older than most of modern America".   :smiley-lol:
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: wildbill on Feb 08, 2020, 02:45 pm
On a side note, a question ... Why do folks in the UK pronounce aluminum "Al you mini um" when there is no "i" in the latter part of the word? A LU MIN UM :D
Apparently the guy that discovered that element called it Aluminum, but folks pointed out that that was inconsistent with the other elements he found because all of them he named with ium endings. So some years later, he acquiesced and changed it to Aluminium. Apparently, the good word never made it across the Atlantic  :smiley-razz:
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 08, 2020, 04:19 pm
You said it "LATTER PART" of the world.

Don't even get me started on the alphabet and the general bastardisation of the English language.
or the Imperial, Metric, Murican weights and measures.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/609d77515bdceb4ae65e2418a815e1f9/tenor.gif)

A fave quote of mine is that "We have crappers older than most of modern America".   :smiley-lol:
Now don't go knockin on me for where I'm from. I didn't make that choice! :D

Apparently the guy that discovered that element called it Aluminum, but folks pointed out that that was inconsistent with the other elements he found because all of them he named with ium endings. So some years later, he acquiesced and changed it to Aluminium. Apparently, the good word never made it across the Atlantic  :smiley-razz:
And, if that is indeed the case, I appreciate the answer. They say one learns something new every day. Hopefully that's not all I learn today though!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 08, 2020, 04:48 pm
LOL not knocking yas..

Hey I am printing !!!
Thank goodness for those ramps boards I invested in.
Not sure if its going to turn out any good but it seems to be doing the right thing.
Was a bit of a guess for some of the settings for the firmware and such but its going...

Ok that didn't go according to plan.
I figure wroung abart summat an it sat in the corner building a plastik turd..

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=345518)

Plan B

(https://lonewolfsaga.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/baldrick-cunning-plan-gif.gif?w=356)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 08, 2020, 06:43 pm
I figure wroung abart summat an it sat in the corner building a plastik turd..
One more time. Only this time, use English please. LOL

I get the "plastik turd" part and I concur. But it's a pretty turd! Your grand kids will love it!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 08, 2020, 07:48 pm
Bearing in my spindle just went. Screamed for a minute and then locked up. So, my CNC is down til I can figure something else out.

If I didn't like to tinker, I'd be mad as a wet hornet and kicking myself for not spending way more on a better machine. It is what it is. And I had a pretty good idea what I was in for when I hit the pay button. Off to study Bob's pics.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 08, 2020, 09:15 pm
Hmmm never had one lock up.
Just a lot of screaming till I put it out of its misery and pull the plug.
And so far with the better spindles no screaming at all just slow down and stop when the carbon brushes give up.

Those 775's are pretty common and always cheap to pick up at any half decent electronics store.
Gotta give you guys a thumbs up on that stuff as there always seems to be a store close enough.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 08, 2020, 09:39 pm
Hmmm never had one lock up.
Just a lot of screaming till I put it out of its misery and pull the plug.
And so far with the better spindles no screaming at all just slow down and stop when the carbon brushes give up.

Those 775's are pretty common and always cheap to pick up at any half decent electronics store.
Gotta give you guys a thumbs up on that stuff as there always seems to be a store close enough.
The term "locked up" may have been a bit dramatic. It kind of went from a scream to a loud hum or buzz and was barely turning (maybe 2 or 3 RPM). I powered down and checked the board with my digital thermometer real quick to see if anything might have overheated. I don't "think" anything else was damaged. But won't know for certain til I get the other spindle running. Which, come to think of it, I don't have to have the new spindle mounted to check if the board is functioning. I'll power it up and see.

Well, stepper control still seems to be good. So, I think I just need a mount (or another 775) and I'll be in business again. I guess these things know when you're trying to replace them with better stuff.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 08, 2020, 10:23 pm
I found that cursing the 3d printer seems to work well along with the threat of a dark cardboard box to go back to China by itself.

First sample batch of filament was garbage and just kept breaking like dry spaghetti.
Second batch seems more pliable and is responding well to a few choice phrases.

Glitchy homing cycle and I may have to reverse the X and Y axis to get around that but will see if it behaves for this batch or needs a good spanking.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 09, 2020, 12:05 am
I found that cursing the 3d printer seems to work well along with the threat of a dark cardboard box to go back to China by itself.

First sample batch of filament was garbage and just kept breaking like dry spaghetti.
Second batch seems more pliable and is responding well to a few choice phrases.

Glitchy homing cycle and I may have to reverse the X and Y axis to get around that but will see if it behaves for this batch or needs a good spanking.
Break out the whooping stick!

Or do like my Grandfather did back in the day and hand it a pocket knife and tell it to go cut a switch. Ohhhhh.... Bad memories there!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 09, 2020, 01:20 am
Been sitting here researching and sketching ideas for a makeshift mount to get the one I started finished. And then it hit me. I have a 3D printer on the way. Why don't I just print a temporary mount? Duh! Sometimes I wonder about my brain (or lack thereof).
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 09, 2020, 04:34 am
LOL I would have probably been in the same frame of mind...

You could increase the infill too to make it more durable.
Not like you need to draw much up either.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 14, 2020, 03:49 am
Well it looks like I may well have gotten that 3d printer with $78 OFF and no return.
That will make it a darned cheap printer.

OK I already hear you telling me I still have to buy bits to fix it.
But given what I have learned sorting some of the issues out and some of the parts I have in hand it is still going to be a very good price.

My first home brew used 6mm rods so no real issues there with upgrading all the bearings and at least two of the linear rods.

The Ramps board is working out better than I expected so another bonus. That with the fact I can upgrade everything to 24 volts should be well worth it.

Ran out of the sample filament they sent so now the wait is on for more to arrive.

A lot of your experience with the CNC is going to be great knowledge moving ahead to 3d work.
Know that's been my finding anyhow.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 15, 2020, 01:13 pm
$78 off? Isn't that what you paid for it? I do like that dual screw design. I will eventually upgrade mine to a similar setup.

I got my Ender up and running last night. Printed one little "upgrade" part (of several to come) and it turned out decent. Still much to learn. Such as when to use (and which type) of additional build plate adhesion (brim, raft, etc). Ran a temperature tower last night and it got knocked over about 90% through the print. Which was plenty to make a decision on best temperature for my filament. So, that worked out good.

I opted for a couple of rolls of ZYLtech filament. Good reviews is all I could really go on. Shipped fast and so far no issues.

I'll be upgrading to a 32 bit motherboard in mine soon (BTT SKR1.4). The Ender doesn't come with thermal runaway standard. It has to have the firmware (Marlin) updated and that's a pain in the keester without a boot loader. It could be done with an Uno. But I want some of the other features that come with the 32 bit board. And for $25 or so. It would be a good investment.

My only advice at this point is to start out with a light colored filament (if your bed is dark). I bought a dark blue and a black. And let me tell you, with not so good lighting, you can't see what's going on. I've had to use a flashlight to keep an eye on what mine's doing. A big PIA!!

(Upgrade part 2 should be complete in 20 minutes or so)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 15, 2020, 02:29 pm
Had a sneaky feeling you would be off like a race horse once you got it.
Guess FredNext didn't do too much harm to it then.

A lot of upgrades suggest an LED strip so I guess that would have to be a first for me when (if) the filament arrives. Seeing as its black mounted on a big heavy shiny black base < my first upgrade seeing is its a plywood type machine and had it laying around for a never really started project.
I do have a few rolls of led in stock from some other projects so that wont cost me anything at least.

I have black and white filament coming but found a quicker cheaper seller in Canada.
Not sure why so many US sellers wont ship to Canada or want crazy shipping fees that make it more expensive than the filament is worth.

HaHa... I did order another motherboard which is a direct swap for the one I took out but is STM based and about the same price as the one you suggested. Once that is in I will play with a proper marlin upgrade on the old one as I suspect that is the issue there with some of the other faults.

My first test bits came out great on regular green painters tape for adhesion with just a BRIM.
Shame there wasn't enough filament to complete them. Found some quite wide stuff at the dollar store which seemed a little darker green and stuck to the "aluminium" bed well but peeled of perfectly with no residue.
I have ordered a nice (but cheap cos you know I am all that) borosilicate glass bed and a new but slightly larger heat pad that can do 12/24 volt.

I also have a slightly better display on standby here from an "offline" grbl controller that I decided would be problematic for me to employ.

That said I am still a little jealous of your machine.
I would drop some pics but I only have failures to show at this point  :smiley-eek:
Mine sits gathering dust.  :smiley-sad:




Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 17, 2020, 02:35 pm
ALIGNMENT REFERENCE (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=665203.msg4480698#msg4480698)

Tagging another post into here as a central reference for alignment.
It would also apply to a few 3D printers too.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 17, 2020, 04:46 pm
ALIGNMENT REFERENCE (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=665203.msg4480698#msg4480698)

Tagging another post into here as a central reference for alignment.
It would also apply to a few 3D printers too.




You know,  you could have shared that info BEFORE I got my CNC! lol. Would have been useful. I managed though. It's still not 100% perfectly aligned. But close enough (for now) for the gals I date.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 17, 2020, 04:57 pm
I managed to get several new parts printed for my printer this past weekend. Still working on bed leveling. My machine has 4 points to level instead of 3. Not sure why they chose to do it that way. 3 is so much easier! I can only imagine how frustrating my 16 years land surveying would have been if the instruments all had 4 leveling screws! Sheesh.

Next project is a spindle mount. I'll probably do 100% infill at a fairly high temperature to improve strength. So, that should take about 3 weeks to print.

And then a box for my fuel tank security system. Along with 2 boxes for the sensors.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 17, 2020, 10:58 pm
LOL I only just threw that together this morning fo the OP of that Q.

All the machines I have ever installed had 4 (or more jacking points)which makes it sorta easy for me.
My only experience of survey gear is the dumpy level and an old T4 so yes 3 points would be much nicer.
Maybe not quite as stable though.

Sounds like you may want a few more Kg of filament at this rate too.

As for the Girls you date they have to accept sawdust and burning plastic as the new man odour
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 18, 2020, 07:12 am
Hmmm so got to thinking...Yes I know its a bit dangerous when I do that.

So when they seperate gold using hydrocyclones they do it with a bank of them (keeps the flow consistent)
But they use much finer nozzles and the cyclones are generally smaller.

Was that a light that just went off in your head ?

Anyway the particle size is super fine almost hepa particle size but zero filters.

So I had a peek online (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1NHXL_enCA887CA887&sxsrf=ACYBGNQgjZFt4VTiuQNJue1lAkiElt4P5Q:1582005400310&q=3d+print+cyclone+dust+collector&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_8auvtdrnAhWRY98KHZUBBjUQsAR6BAgIEAE) and wouldn't you know it there are a hell of a lot of freebie plans for these things for 3d printers.

Just a sort of "for later" idea.

Oh and btw the double bucket idea failed here.

Would have taken a pic but was too busy wrapping myself around the outer pail wrestling the inner pail from its deadly grasp and its pretty hard to hold a cell phone while you are still wondering why we dont have extra arms like a danged octopus

Thinking a few nuts, bolts and fender washers to hold the walls together would probably fix that.

The Dyson Animal project is sort of at a midpoint.
It does its job pretty well for a bodge up number but the amount it can hold is a bit of a drawback right now.
Wife says I am not allowed a 45 gallon drum in the house or outside the front door (2nd best place).

SO ... am looking at past experience again to maybe poke a hole in the dirt side at the appropriate angle / level and add a second stage to that with a bit more capacity.
Of course it could end up looking like a two stage booster rocket or it could simply end up with more holes than the Titanic and spit stuff out like an atomic cloud.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 18, 2020, 03:43 pm
I've got the dust deputy if you need accurate dimensions. I'm thinking the geometry should be the same regardless of size if one wanted to scale it down or up. Of course, you could design one full size to be printed in multiple pieces. Interesting project for sure.

I'll get back to dust collection after I get the spindle going.  Hope to start printing it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 18, 2020, 04:47 pm
I have three here LOL.
That aint including some mock ups laying around the garage...Really should have a clean up in there of major proportions.

I am thinking of some smaller ones for final stage filtration with smaller nozzles to get down to micron levels of separation.

Saw this one (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3759890) last night and that really peaked my interest.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 19, 2020, 07:20 pm
Just started printing the spindle mount. Should be done (if it doesn't screw up) in about 9 hours. Decided to create a test piece with holes of each size in the mount. Glad I did. They were all printing about 0.4mm to 0.5mm too small. I would have been severely ticked off had I printed it and had those results. Of course, nothing saying I won't have similar issues with the mount. But I think it should be OK.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 19, 2020, 08:18 pm
That is going to be an interesting piece when it comes off the printer.

Did you got with 100% or a little  less ?

Added a small drag chain to mine and threw and extra feed in there whilst I was doing so.
About all I can do for now.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=347469)

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=347471)

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=347473)

Tried it with a seperate PSU and decided on the MORE is BETTER choice LOL
very bright and I think I will throw some on the other CNC's too.
Have lots of neopixels but decided a disco ball effect may not be such a good idea.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HandmadeWebbedJapanesebeetle.webp)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 19, 2020, 10:39 pm
That is going to be an interesting piece when it comes off the printer.

Did you got with 100% or a little  less ?
This part is just a simple mount that will use the original Z-axis. I have to order longer rods and a longer ballscrew to build the Z-axis I eventually want.

After researching how to make parts stronger, it would seem that 100% infill is NOT the way to go. So, I decided to print at a temperature closer to my filaments max along with increasing the wall line count to 8 and 20% Gyroid infill. So, we'll have to wait and see as to how effective it will be. The small test piece I ran seems as hard as a rock. But who knows?

(I based my decision primarily on this fellows tests/information (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEOQTmIWJ_rncRcWmjQIvMKFAeM071CXM). There are a few others that he has that aren't in that playlist. Specifically the one on infill strength. Kid knows his stuff, IMO.)

Have lots of neopixels but decided a disco ball effect may not be such a good idea.
Oh, come on! Live a little. Get the lights going. Put on some 70's music and strut your stuff!
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=347498)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 19, 2020, 10:50 pm
Closing in on the halfway mark!

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=347502)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 20, 2020, 06:13 am
Seriously impressed.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 21, 2020, 01:22 pm
Seriously impressed.


Dont be just yet. At least not until it's on the machine. The plan is to have it on later today after work. But that will depend greatly on how much of a fight I have getting bearings out of the old and into the new.

I will say this,  the new does seem lake a better mount than the original. The original feels waxy. I can leave marks in it with my finger nail. I can hardly scratch the new one. And I'm not sure if the marks are scratches or where it ground off my nail like a file.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 21, 2020, 01:56 pm
WHAT you never got those spare bearings from the spares list ?
-1 on the impressed scale  :)

You do need a slight interference fit on the bearings.
A small vice come in handy for removal and installation.
A socket set makes great helpers for the removal too.

A rubber mallet or soft head "dead blow" is a bonus tool if not applied to vigorously.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CharmingScentedKinkajou.webp)

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 21, 2020, 03:18 pm
I've got spares. Just not going to mar them up figuring out what works and what doesn't.

So, are you saying my 2 pound hammer isn't the right amount of mass to make them move? :D

I've got an 8 pounder!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 21, 2020, 03:42 pm
Ah the age old "If at first you don't succeed get a bigger hammer" approach.

Best one used here is one of these. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDRYi_WqfCM)
When you commission one you simply have to test it out LOL

It replaces 3 men and 25 pounders sweating thier whatsits off for 10 minutes per bolt.
Nitrogen charged.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 21, 2020, 05:29 pm
Ah the age old "If at first you don't succeed get a bigger hammer" approach.

Best one used here is one of these. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDRYi_WqfCM)
When you commission one you simply have to test it out LOL

It replaces 3 men and 25 pounders sweating thier whatsits off for 10 minutes per bolt.
Nitrogen charged.



Finally! They've invented something that can knock a $5 bill out of my brother's  hand!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 21, 2020, 06:14 pm
LMBO
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 21, 2020, 08:44 pm
Seriously impressed.
Well ..... UNfortunately, >>>I<<< screwed the pooch on one very important measurement. When drawing it up, in order to get the whole backlash area correct, I started at the bottom and built it up using DesignSpark Mechanical and their "push/pull" process. And the very last "pull" I must have entered the wrong distance. The distance from top to bottom is off by about 5mm. Which makes it so the bearings AND the backlash mechanism both stick out. So, off to the drawing board (after I get done pulling my head out of my arse). Probably wont get around to reprinting this weekend. But who knows?

Other than that it turned out beautifully. Oh! And the original bearings are trashed. When I pulled out the lead screw from the Z axis, there was NOTHING smooth about those running up and down the rods. Hopefully, my replacements are better!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 21, 2020, 09:42 pm
If they are a firm enough fit for the bearings you could get away with the 5 mm difference to to bottom.

Same with the anti backlash as it wont affect the travel that much either.

Sort of suspected the bearings may have been pooched due to all that vibration etc.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/RVIZxXgdOVwdy/giphy.gif)

Oh and pre-load the bearings with grease... There I told you.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Feb 21, 2020, 10:42 pm
Oh and pre-load the bearings with grease... There I told you.

You told me before (I think). At least someone did. Problem is, I see absolutely ZERO difference in the ones that came out and the ones I purchased. I even broke out the zoom lens (magnifying glass) and had a look at the bearings and what not inside. All look identical. Probably came out of the same factory in China.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 21, 2020, 10:55 pm
The difference is how long they last with protective oil compares to having proper grease in there.

I have some that the wiper seal ring is not as good as others so they will be prone to small particles of dirt and dust.
A fully grease loaded bearing will help keep out that ingress of contaminants.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 02, 2020, 04:31 am
How's things going Mr. Bob?

Life has sorta got in the way of having any fun around here. I'm pretty much at a stand still until I can find time to print that spindle mount. Maybe next weekend. Just hope I can remember how everything on the CNC goes back together! Also, waiting on better calipers to arrive so I can better calibrate the printer. Right now, a 15mm hole is NOT a 15mm hole. It's printing more like 15.5mm holes and the bearings will slide right on through. But calibration will fix it (I hope).
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 02, 2020, 02:23 pm
All stop here too i'm afraid.
The "tubes" on mine are not up to extended usage and neither are the cheap plastic bearings.
Tubes measure 7.4 dia leaving too much play to get decent prints.
I replaced the lower bed with thicker plywood and swapped those bearings which has helped a LOT but not enough.
The rest need changing and I am out of rod to do them all.
I could tear down another CNC but as it is complete and working I am loath to do that.

Catching up on a few things fer the wife before the wife catches up on me.

Snagged a few goodies on my last excursion to the tip and stashed em in the garage.
couple of computers, a nice looking vacuum cleaner and two older laser printers.
Fully expect the laser printers to yield lots of goodies going by the weight of them.

Brought my Raspberry pi back online thanks to a $1.50 VGA adaptor so that's hooked into my KVM
Should give me an insight into getting it working with Arduino IDE's.

Sorta boring right now.

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/5ee8f38893f653b46eacffa3b6de10c5/tumblr_oq7t6dBoZW1vc5xvwo1_500.gifv)


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 07, 2020, 11:34 pm
Progress!!!

Took 9 hours to print. It has one design flaw that may or may not be an issue. If it ends up causing problems, I'll tell you what it is. If not, my lips are sealed!  :D

The PLA I used really likes to hold on to lithium grease. Never tried to remove lithium grease before. So, rather than use something that will react bad with the PLA, I'll just leave it be and deal with the smudges.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=350003)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 07, 2020, 11:43 pm
Did you make the grey and the black or just the black bit ?
On mine it was the grey bit the failed worst.

Looks impressive though even if it does look slightly tilted ?

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 08, 2020, 12:18 am
Did you make the grey and the black or just the black bit ?
On mine it was the grey bit the failed worst.

Looks impressive though even if it does look slightly tilted ?


I think tilt is the cameras fault (cell phone). And it is slightly possible that the photographer might have had a hand in that too. I did the black piece to be able to mount the larger motor. And yes, I am eyeballing the grey bit too. Just not sure I can redo that and make it stronger with a 3D print without reducing Z travel. Or reducing X travel. I'll stare at it while I'm shoveling a big ole pork chop down my gullet :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 08, 2020, 01:35 am
Of course, now that I have the spindle mounted, I can possibly machine something out of wood for that part. Won't know til I test this thing out though.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 08, 2020, 03:45 am
Order some longer rod and and thread then go for more travel.
Keep the spacing for everything else or if you have room add a little extra spacing.
Its only a matter of moving the motor up a bit and the top rod.

You should have room for some extra gusset material too in the front corner's and the back if you extend it.
Mine was the poor infill that caused the original to fail.
Best failure ever as it meant I gained and didn't loose anything

Maybe even get rid of those stand offs for the stepper.
Just used one of those cheap angle stepper mounts for mine.

I gained about 5 mm of extra travel with the wooden one but the Z was the best gain.
I can shoot the spindle right up out of the way.

Fending for myself this weekend cos wife is away at her daughters hen night.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 15, 2020, 03:08 am
Hello there, Bob!

How's all those upgrades and whatnots coming along?

I have come to the conclusion after a lot of thought (and your advice), that with as deep into this CNC as I am, I might as well go all in and make it a bit more usable. And hopefully, I bit more rigid.

With this design change, I'll lose about 25mm of X travel and gain about 70mm in Z travel (from 42mm to 116mm, give or take). Currently, the vertical 2020 extrusions are 220mm tall. I've redesigned it to use 300mm extrusions and plan to add a brace on both sides as shown (oops! Not shown). The longer 2020s will grant me about 85mm of clearance from the bottom of the Z axis mount to the bed. As opposed to roughly 50mm currently. My design has the X axis guide rods at 120mm apart rather than the 70mm they are currently. I was thinking that would add a little more resistance to torque (if that's the right term). The 3D printed (blue part) piece is much beefier and has one design flaw I have to work out. Namely, it will be almost impossible to get to the screws on the Z axis coupling. So, I will have to think on that.

Nothing is written in stone on this. Open to ideas/suggestions.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=351082)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 15, 2020, 03:34 am
That looks great and pretty much what I had in mind.
if you can mount the Z motor directly to it then maybe you only need a notch or hole to tighten the bottom screws of the coupling.

Gets rid of the standoffs and adds a tiny amount of extra rigidity

As for loosing X travel maybe a relief for each of the rod holders and an X axis screw mount relief.
Not too sure what dimensions you have but it may give you a little of that 25 mm back ?

Are you going to use the long or the short bearings for the carriage ?
And dont forget small holes lined up to just grip the outer groove in the bearing.
Mine has about 5mm inside between the bearings and I just got some nice small grease nipples so if I poke a hole in there I can lube both on one rod from a single point.

Not much else happening here still that slow corona boat from China...Bonus is I scored a few more refunds with the time delays and I am pretty sure the items are just delayed...Nothing major just 2-10 dollar items but a few of them.

Just playing extra careful with a 65mm thick x 300mm dia cedar slice on the big machine and thinking it could do with a Z upgrade too as 65mm isn't big enough for a couple of new ideas.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 15, 2020, 05:15 am
That looks great and pretty much what I had in mind.
if you can mount the Z motor directly to it then maybe you only need a notch or hole to tighten the bottom screws of the coupling.

Gets rid of the standoffs and adds a tiny amount of extra rigidity
I think we're on the same page there. Only way I can think to make it happen.


Quote
As for loosing X travel maybe a relief for each of the rod holders and an X axis screw mount relief.
Not too sure what dimensions you have but it may give you a little of that 25 mm back ?
Interesting idea. I'll investigate that for sure.

Quote
Are you going to use the long or the short bearings for the carriage ?
And dont forget small holes lined up to just grip the outer groove in the bearing.
Mine has about 5mm inside between the bearings and I just got some nice small grease nipples so if I poke a hole in there I can lube both on one rod from a single point.
It's not wide enough for 2 LM10LUU at 55mm wide each. So, probably do 2 LM10UU at 29mm each on each rod. It's almost wide enough for a short and long paired up. But not quite. And I don't want to go any wider if I can help it.

You'll have to spell out for me what you mean about the holes to grip the outer groove. It's late and I'm not seeing it.

Quote
Not much else happening here still that slow corona boat from China...Bonus is I scored a few more refunds with the time delays and I am pretty sure the items are just delayed...Nothing major just 2-10 dollar items but a few of them.

Just playing extra careful with a 65mm thick x 300mm dia cedar slice on the big machine and thinking it could do with a Z upgrade too as 65mm isn't big enough for a couple of new ideas.
I've ordered a few things lately. None from China though. I'll pay a bit more and not deal with the wait times.

Well, get busy making something. That wife of yours isn't just going to let you just sit around. She wants goodies! :D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 15, 2020, 05:34 am
This is what I meant. Only small holes with tiny screws but they act as a locking mechanism in case the 3D housing becomes a little loose over time.
Mine come in from the back where they are out of the way and dont affect the integrity of the mount.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=351088)

LOL lots of other things to do to keep the wife happy.
Also looks like I may qualify for 3 years of backdated union pension too so I know she will be planning in her head. She hinted I could do with a newer truck but I would prefer to replace her little beater.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 15, 2020, 07:45 pm
This is what I meant. Only small holes with tiny screws but they act as a locking mechanism in case the 3D housing becomes a little loose over time.
Mine come in from the back where they are out of the way and dont affect the integrity of the mount.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=351088)

LOL lots of other things to do to keep the wife happy.
Also looks like I may qualify for 3 years of backdated union pension too so I know she will be planning in her head. She hinted I could do with a newer truck but I would prefer to replace her little beater.
I got ya! Not a bad idea at all.

Yes sir. 3 years of pension probably has her wheels spinning. I see a new hot tub in your future. :D And she needs a Cadillac!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 15, 2020, 07:59 pm
Hmm I may have to sneak in quick with some purchases once i know the final number...
We have been borderline on her retiring too but I got the "WORD" this morning.
She wants to pull the pin in May  :smiley-money:
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: eric2vr on Mar 19, 2020, 05:37 am
ballscrewbob, thanks for information. There are a lot of options and choices I found here on this routers site ( url: https://www.woodroutersreviews.com/ (https://www.woodroutersreviews.com/) ). The best one which I found is Bosch PR20EV Colt, cause it works kinda like any CNC router in certain mods, if you know how to adjust it right.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 19, 2020, 10:53 pm
@ballscrewbob: to continue ... I'm no windows user, I'm on linux&linuxcnc. I'm trying to figure out a "sane" set of tools for windows friend. These are my workflows and where I'm stuck on win10+grbl:

PCB: Linux: kicad -> pcb2gcode (+probe code) -> linuxcnc. This works like a charm.
On Win10: no working toolpath to create gcode, flatcam connects traces (eek!). The only gcodesender I found that has a working autolevler (which replaces linuxcnc probe code) is OpenCNCPilot. So I'm essentally stuck here.

V-Carving/Engraving/depthmap: Linux: bitmap -> F-Engrave or dmap2gcode -> linuxcnc, just like expected.
Win10: same workflow, just OpenCNCPilot is not very happy about the linuxcnc g-code it gets, but it kindof works.

engraving on curved surface: Linux: gcode -> gcoderipper (adds probe code) -> linuxcnc, works.
Windows: OpenCNCPilot does not work (just 2mm probing for pcb), UGC does no have a working autolevel function, bCNC looks like it could work but I never managed to get it really working.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 20, 2020, 12:29 am
Had limited success on curved surfaces other than the ones I created myself.

In those cases I created the surface first based on the size (I work in mm) of the picture.
I also tend to oversize both items.
So if a picture is 150x150 mm I make the surface 300x300 and curved to suit the surface x 2 radius.
Then I drop the picture onto the surface and fiddle with the placement if needed.
Sometimes (not always) I may slightly reduce the picture size to give me a border if I think it will add to the piece aesthetically or the piece needs some minor additional edge work.

Artcam I find is best for those pieces as it does most of the work for you and just lets you scale the picture surface rather than have to calculate everything and it will apply it to pretty much any piece you may have below it.

For flat pieces I use dmap and f-engrave like you and find them exceptionally useful.

As far as saving the g-code I always leave the settings for the processor as MACH2 or 3 depending on what they will support and have never had any issues with cross code usage.
Mach seems to be a defacto standard across so many programs and does seem to work well between programs.

Occasionally I resort to Edytornc (https://sourceforge.net/projects/edytornc/) for some g-code edits.

Not done PCB work but I know Danger has and he had the auto-level working too so he can give you the best advice for that aspect.

So for me the general workflow is as follows.

1. Graphics clean ups and reduce pattern effects / artifacts where needed.
2. Decide on laser of machining.
3. If laser jump right into lasergrbl and tweak settings as needed directly in program for best result.
4. If machining decide on which machine to use. Smaller or thicker pieces go on the 3025 GRBL based.  Larger or thinner pieces go on the 3040 MACH based as it only has 60 mm of Z.
5. Choose program as dictated by step 4.

I dont fully know how to work Artcam's finer features but I can usually find similar help topics online for whatever feature I get stuck on. It does a lot of my work for me.

For DMAP and F-enfrave you already have the basics down probably as well as me.

With any of those programs the beast is the correct selection of tool. speed, feed.
Artcam has a nice tool database you can add to so if I use that most of my tools have three settings.
A. Fine
B. Regular
C. Roughing

I choose based on the material. Such as ELM or OAK are a royal pain due to the grain structures so quite often I never use roughing speeds and almost always use a ball end cutter.
Most other softer materials I always use dual flute tools preferable flat offset where the two bottom edges are unequal length as they are better for plunging etc. and dont need ramping moves in most instances.

Have found (trial and error mostly) that building your tool database it pretty vital and have a whole bunch of unused V cutters. I will find a use for them eventually but for me ballnose is the way to go and leaves very little finishing required.

As for the sender itself UGS has been great BUT !
It hates large files so setting up the buffer is something I had to do to help with that and occasionally I may have to do multiple passes and that can also be a pain.

If you check the ugs github you will find my name and a couple of issues they helped me with
Same with lasergrbl LOL.




Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 20, 2020, 02:14 am
LOL had to post that last one before I got tied up elsewhere.

Thing to really watch out is FEEDS.
Had a couple of minor issues where the speed calculations in one program were in mm per minute and another read that as CM per minute.

Clearly that is cause for concern but a lot of g-code senders will allow you to LOCK your own feed rate which is what I now do regardless of where my code came from.

In the case of UGS I do a quick check and if its too fast use the over ride option to bring it right down or if its a single feed change use Edytornc to make a change.

Never really identified where the error came from as I am often prepping other jobs right after I start a couple on the machines.

Also the reason I go oversize is to be able to better see any artifacts that may be an issue at the job itself.
Mostly I have gotten them down and dont need to do any further work but a couple of times I have found traces of a shape outline that I dont want on the job itself so it gives me a view of where I need to make any minor alterations or occasionally I know it will be OK at the proper size as it it too small to make a difference.
It also allows me to scale down easier without loss of detail.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 20, 2020, 11:32 am
 Edytornc ... now this is a nice one, thanks! Another thing I'll try is meshlab for stl->dmap.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 20, 2020, 12:38 pm
The only gcodesender I found that has a working autolevler (which replaces linuxcnc probe code) is OpenCNCPilot. So I'm essentally stuck here.
Not done PCB work but I know Danger has and he had the auto-level working too so he can give you the best advice for that aspect.
Best advice? Really? :D

I can't say it's the "best advice", but for Auto-Leveling, I have had the best results using ChiliPeppr (http://chilipeppr.com/jpadie) for PCBs. The only real con of using it is that it is online. So, you have to be connected, and STAY connected, to use it. Once your spindle starts spinning, any disruption of service and you have a scrap piece of copper. I have only had that happen once when my ISP decided to do unannounced maintenance. Yeah, I was ticked!

Hope it helps.

PS:
And I use the Google Chrome browser for ChiliPeppr. FireFox has issues for me. Only 2 I have tried.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 20, 2020, 12:41 pm
@Danger

Hey you know more than I do on the topic.

I got one of those zero tool measure thingy and I thought it was a medal.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 20, 2020, 01:53 pm
ChiliPepper is nice, but online is a nogo. I'm trying to get pcb2gcodeGUI working on windows ... brrr ...
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 20, 2020, 02:03 pm
ChiliPepper is nice, but online is a nogo. I'm trying to get pcb2gcodeGUI working on windows ... brrr ...
Did you try to enable the MACH 3 option in there ?

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 20, 2020, 03:00 pm
Not now. I'm still struggling with pcb2gcodeGUI no finding pcb2gcode.exe - which happens to be in the same diectory as pcb2gcodeGUI. Guess, that's some Windows10 "feature" :/
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 20, 2020, 03:18 pm
LOL there are TWO executable in there.
I just worked out that firing up one allows the other to fire up.

Give it a whirl and if it works then do a BAT file to execute them in order.

EDIT.

It seems it needs a proper "path" but the bat file would get around that if called from the same folder.


Code: [Select]
pcb2gcode
pcb2gcodeGUI


Just those two lines in a bat work here.

Also works from a shortcut on the desktop just calling the bat file.

edit.2 Also closing the command window after the second call seems to work too but you may want to double check that.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 20, 2020, 04:42 pm
Ok, got it working: create shortcut on desktop, open properties of shortcut, clock on "open folder", close window, save. By some obscure reason now the shortcut works and has the worki ng folder in it's path.

Just found a viable way to convert stl to depthmap: open stl in meshlab, set Render->Shader->depthmap, then File->Save_Snapshot :)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 26, 2020, 05:30 pm
Hows things in the Great White North Bob.

Did you get your "parts" for the 3D printer yet?

I've been working on the CNC and I've been staring at this "power supply" that came with the 500W spindle. It's from China. So, it looks and feels cheap. Did I mention it's from China? And as cheap as this thing is, it got me to wondering about how safe it is. I'm not confident this thing won't burn the house down. And, if I'm going to get electrocuted, I want to take a few folks out first. :smiley-mr-green: 

That said, I'm thinking about getting a better power supply. Maybe one that can handle powering both the Arduino/CNC Shield and the spindle. The spindle needs (on paper) 100v/5A at full speed. But I'm sure, if it's like most motors, it will draw a bit more than 5A at times. And I would like the option of being able to control the speed via the Arduino/CNC Shield. But that's not really a necessity at this early stage of the hobby.

Google results (in "shopping") just had a bunch of what I already have. I, also, had a look over at Mouser. Went to power supplies and select 100V DC as output. Yeah ..... No. Out of my budget.

What's your thoughts?
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 26, 2020, 07:41 pm
If it is anything like the one I got which is still knocking pretty huge chunks of wood into a fine powder it will be OK

It is currently using a 5mm end mill taking 2mm stepdown by 1mm stepover into a hunk of cherry wood at about 200 to 450 mm feed rate....Hmmm smell that burnt cherry in the air.
Oh and its using an 800w spindle without hogging down at all.

Reason it is chewing for fun right now is I re-ran the cables in the drag chain and forgot to include the Z motor cable and the first cut was 8mm deep diagonally across the piece and made it to the centre before I hit the E-STOP.

5A is good for most things but I went all out during the homebrew phase and got some anywhere up to 30A and all way up to 36V.
Most of my ALI purchases seem to be help up in Canada somewhere probably quarantine or some such.
Those refunds are going to start adding up quite a bit soon but some have cottoned on and are extending the protection times.

Anyway I thought you had a spindle with its own PSU like mine with the MACH type speed controller ?

I did notice amazon prices seemed to have risen slightly too since the world went crazy.

Turns out a local cop has it so half the force is down for self isolation...I feel a lead foot bonus period in my near future.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT39CVCn6Eq8Ve9FZu/giphy.gif)








Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 26, 2020, 08:35 pm
Anyway I thought you had a spindle with its own PSU like mine with the MACH type speed controller ?
I have this one (https://www.banggood.com/Machifit-ER11-Chuck-CNC-500W-Spindle-Motor-with-52mm-Clamps-and-Power-Supply-Speed-Governor-p-1027937.html). It's a Machifit.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353385)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 26, 2020, 11:22 pm
Yep looks like the one I have and that performs great.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 27, 2020, 12:11 am
Yep looks like the one I have and that performs great.


Alrighty then. Guess I'm a little paranoid lol. Guess I don't need a different one then. Didn't want to spend the money on that anyway.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 03:01 am
It aint like you gonna be running the spindle full tilt anyway unless you want the noise to muffle the sounds of those peeps you were talking about...

Mostly between 1/2 and 3/4 on the dial here even with 1mm cutters is more than enough for most jobs.

The 800w spindle well thats probably less than 1/4 right now and it seems just fine but this is a 28,000 rpm beast.


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 27, 2020, 09:26 am
I have the same PSU on a 500W spindle. But I run it at full speed - in fact, I have removed the poti and replaced it by a wire+resistor :)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 01:31 pm
I have the same PSU on a 500W spindle. But I run it at full speed - in fact, I have removed the poti and replaced it by a wire+resistor :)
I suppose it would depend on the materials being cut but permanent full speed will kill those bushes in the 500w spindles and they can be a royal pain to replace.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 27, 2020, 02:24 pm
How hot do these 500w spindles run?

Just noticing that the so-called "fan" on the top is pretty much useless. If it does move air, and I can't see it moving much, there's really no way for it to get inside the motor or do anything besides cool the very top of it.

I removed mine out of curiosity and may leave it off. All I can see it really doing is causing unnecessary drag on the motor.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 03:16 pm
Put it back on right now or I will tell everyone you have an unlimited amount of bog roll !

(https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/tp-memes.jpg?quality=70&strip=all)

Honest it does help a LOT and also keeps fine dust out of the motor too.
Mine tend to run lukewarm even at higher speeds
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 03:20 pm
Oh and BTW there are 3D plans online for a slightly more potent fan for these things but while you are sat on your throne you can look it up...

Not like you are busy or anything
(https://i.imgflip.com/1pbw6x.jpg)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 27, 2020, 05:27 pm
Well, I was sitting here staring off into space (as required by the conditions set forth in my Corona Virus House Arrest). And it occurred to me that a not very well thought out box I had printed for a different project might have a use after all.




It fits pretty darn well. I just have to design and print a lid for it for the knob and the other switches/buttons.


(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353544)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 07:08 pm
LOL

I suspected you were entangled in the 3d but that's a real bonus right there
Until even the local post start to handle packages I am subject to plywood, nails, and glue still.
So still sorta stone-age here but given my old fart status I am good with that.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 27, 2020, 09:21 pm
LOL

I suspected you were entangled in the 3d but that's a real bonus right there
Until even the local post start to handle packages I am subject to plywood, nails, and glue still.
So still sorta stone-age here but given my old fart status I am good with that.


You'll get "entangled" too. It's pretty incredible what 3D printing technology can do. And for a $200 printer! You'll start seeing all kinds of things you can fix around the house (Just one oddball example: Clock hands for an old clock my mother kept for no good reason). Or make those things better. Make project boxes the way you want them. Tools, like a circuit board holder for when your soldering.

I just printed one of those fans you mentioned on Thingiverse. Printed some T-nuts last night. Yesterday I designed a clamping system for the CNC to hold PCBs while I mill them out. Every day, I think of something else to draw up in DesignSpark Mechanical and throw on the printer.

And the designing part is what I like most. I'll find a need and go look at stuff on Thingiverse for inspiration. Then make my own design.

It really is addicting. LOL
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 10:20 pm
I know !

So many designs just sat in limbo right now...
May bite the bullet when the money comes and just "go ALL IN" ! (she said)



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 27, 2020, 11:07 pm
A clamp I'm working on (saw similar in a video a few days ago). Doesn't quite work with the way I have my waste board set up. But if I remove it for some reason, something like this could come in handy. Have to place it in the "maybe" pile.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353582)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 11:25 pm
So how are the "ADULT TOYS" coming along ?
Not sure about that devastator 3000 ultra you showed me.
I mean that thing would need half the power grid.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 27, 2020, 11:49 pm
Where you been? I'm all the way up to the Devastator 4000!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 28, 2020, 01:16 am
You need a bigger 3d printer for that one ?

Asking for a friend

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7TKBdtqq6OdRFwzu/source.gif)


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 28, 2020, 12:16 pm
You need a bigger 3d printer for that one ?

Asking for a friend

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7TKBdtqq6OdRFwzu/source.gif)



Not at all.







Because I have gobs and gobs of .....







(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353649)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 29, 2020, 07:24 pm
Well, I'm hoping that in the next week or so the folks in the know will come up with a way to keep most/all folks from dying from this contagion. In the meantime, I'm doing what I can to stay occupied with something constructive. Of course, with my ADD, I'm all over the place. LOL. ... SQUIRREL !!!

Worked on a design for a 20mm wide drag chain last night. I think I have that nailed down good enough for my purposes. Just need to print about 20 links at 20+ minutes each.

But this morning, I spent time tweaking the Z Axis design for the CNC. I think it's coming along pretty well. Used a couple of your ideas.

As for loosing X travel maybe a relief for each of the rod holders and an X axis screw mount relief.
Not too sure what dimensions you have but it may give you a little of that 25 mm back ?
Yup. Gained a bunch back. In fact, I think will have more than I did originally, if that's possible. Never really accurately measured the original travel. But with this design, I should be able to get a full 300mm of X travel.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353931)

Mine has about 5mm inside between the bearings and I just got some nice small grease nipples so if I poke a hole in there I can lube both on one rod from a single point.
Added some tunnels for adding grease. I have to pick up a couple of zerts to get measurements for the openings. But the tunnels are 3mm dia.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353933)

Only problem I'm seeing at this point is the fact that it is going to take nearly 4 days to print!!!! :o  Going to look into ways to do it in chunks. But I'm not hopeful there is a way to do that and maintain strength. But maybe?
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 29, 2020, 07:36 pm
Looks good. Just some points from me:

Greasetunnel: place them in a way that you can feed them from top to bottom, i.e. do not add a tunnel that needs grease to go up against gravity. reason: grease will flow (temperature, vibrations ,...) so it's good to know that it'll en at the rods, not the desk.

X-Axis, top rod: move it up. It'll reduce flexing in Y-direction.

Rods: can you use supported rods? --> less flexing.

Z-Axis: use 2 bearings per rod, not one. --> less flexing.

Z-Axis, motor mount: do you use a stepper with TR shaft? if not, where do the couplings go?

Just my 2 ¢ :)



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 29, 2020, 08:27 pm
Looks good. Just some points from me:

-A- Greasetunnel: place them in a way that you can feed them from top to bottom, i.e. do not add a tunnel that needs grease to go up against gravity. reason: grease will flow (temperature, vibrations ,...) so it's good to know that it'll en at the rods, not the desk.

-B- X-Axis, top rod: move it up. It'll reduce flexing in Y-direction.

-C- Rods: can you use supported rods? --> less flexing.

-D- Z-Axis: use 2 bearings per rod, not one. --> less flexing.

-E- Z-Axis, motor mount: do you use a stepper with TR shaft? if not, where do the couplings go?

Just my 2 ¢ :)
I appreciate the input. (I've lettered your points).

-A- There will be fittings (zerks) for using a grease gun in those holes. So, flowing out is not an issue.

-B- If I move it up, then I lose clearance beneath it. But I do see your point and will have to  decide if the extra clearance outweighs the possible flexing.

-C- Not sure what you mean by "supported rods".

-D- The motor mount on the Z axis does uses 2 LM8SUU bearings per each rod.


-E- My machine is a Chinese 3018. You can see in the photo below how the stepper is connected. I'm using the same method.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353959)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 29, 2020, 09:05 pm
@C: just got lost in translation ... I mean stuff like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954652384.html
or this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000094946472.html

@E: OK. I don't like these standoffs, better design a cage that fits the NEMA17 flange perfectly. You'll relieve a lot of stress from the mounting plate.

The 1310 I sent to a friend last week has everything built from aluminium (fine quality, but maybe I was lucky). The motors are this type:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32888650990.html

Makes the build quite clean, but I don't know how they last.


@ Clearance: if you mount the spindle motor on the part where the stepper is now and move the x-bearings to the part where the spindle is now, then you get more clearance at the cost of more buildheight.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 29, 2020, 10:05 pm
@C: just got lost in translation ... I mean stuff like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954652384.html
or this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000094946472.html
I think that may be a bit overkill for this little machine. I wasn't even going to get as involved with "upgrading" this thing as I have, but my spindle took a dump on me. The new one is larger. So, I had to come up with a mount for it. It just sort of snowballed from there to where I am now.

Quote
@E: OK. I don't like these standoffs, better design a cage that fits the NEMA17 flange perfectly. You'll relieve a lot of stress from the mounting plate.
The stepper motor standoffs ARE NOT going back on.  :smiley-lol:  I made sure that I have enough travel that those chincy little things are in no way needed.

Quote
The 1310 I sent to a friend last week has everything built from aluminium (fine quality, but maybe I was lucky). The motors are this type:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32888650990.html

Makes the build quite clean, but I don't know how they last.
Pretty much identical to those on these 3018s. Nema 17.


Quote
@ Clearance: if you mount the spindle motor on the part where the stepper is now and move the x-bearings to the part where the spindle is now, then you get more clearance at the cost of more buildheight.

Not sure I follow you there. But if I'm on the same page, I think that would make the whole Z carriage quite a bit wider. And I would have to come up with some sort of custom rod mounts. Doesn't quite seem feasible in my mind.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 29, 2020, 10:37 pm
That looks spectacular.

Way better than the Chinese version and probably 10 times stronger.

As for the grease tunnels May have been tempted to just put it directly in line with the center of the bearings and probably not even bother with a grease fitting but just use a regular cone nozzle to inject the grease.
It is not going to get hot enough to "flow" anyway and only get used once in a while.

Truly am impressed with that and think you may have missed your calling.

(https://pics.me.me/i-can-fix-it-trust-me-im-an-engineer-29789939.png)


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 29, 2020, 11:02 pm
As for the grease tunnels May have been tempted to just put it directly in line with the center of the bearings and probably not even bother with a grease fitting but just use a regular cone nozzle to inject the grease.
It is not going to get hot enough to "flow" anyway and only get used once in a while.
Directly in line wouldn't work. The bearings are too close to being aligned with the cross beams. But, since posting that about the zerks, I've been doing some research on the idea. Yeah, not using zerks. I'll print up a little plug or something. Not that the zerks are expensive. Just cant see buying a big ole tube of grease and a grease gun just for that purpose. And like you said, it'll only be used once in a while.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=354007)

Truly am impressed with that and think you may have missed your calling.
Thanks Bob!

Actually, I have a Bachelors in Drafting & Design. Albeit, I received that a long time ago!!!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 29, 2020, 11:06 pm
Got me a baby grease gun for some garage work a looong time ago and it came with multiple nozzles so now it occasionally get's to visit the house too.

You should have no shortage of lube / grease anyway  :smiley-grin:

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 30, 2020, 02:26 am
Got me a baby grease gun for some garage work a looong time ago and it came with multiple nozzles so now it occasionally get's to visit the house too.

You should have no shortage of lube / grease anyway  :smiley-grin:


I have (or had) one of those. Haven't seen it in a coon's age. Might have left it hanging in the garage at my ex's when I moved out. Who knows?
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 30, 2020, 04:08 am
Dropped a load of stuff off at the tip and did my usual rummage round the electronics c-can...
Boy-O-boy...

Has to have been the best visit ever..
Huge amount of teardown but I have already seen at least one NEMA 23, A large ( working ) multi-tap transformer that weighs about 7 lb in a Hi-Fi unit rated as 100W output so tranny should be a good amperage.
It even had a couple of fans so am expecting good things out of that one.
Some form of small but very heavy vinyl cutter device with some more steppers.

Grandpa is quite happy but the wife keeps asking what I am sneaking into the house with.
Oh and she has said I can have a BIGGER CNC machine and a BETTER/bigger 3D printer.

So should I be worried about what she wants ?


Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 30, 2020, 05:09 am
Grandpa is quite happy but the wife keeps asking what I am sneaking into the house with.
Oh and she has said I can have a BIGGER CNC machine and a BETTER/bigger 3D printer.

So should I be worried about what she wants ?
LMAO. Sounds like you struck it rich!

And yes. You should be very worried! She wants that new Cadillac!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: zwieblum on Mar 30, 2020, 12:15 pm
I like that engineer above ...
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=354100)

@ printing time: if you have enough epoxy resin and washed sand: just print the hull, then fill it with expoy+sand.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Mar 31, 2020, 06:11 pm
An idea I came up with for attaching my limit switch brackets to the 20mm extrusion. This works amazingly well. Maybe as good as a bolt and T nut. But this saves me a trip to the hardware store.    Pop that little key out and it will just fall off. :)

Toss it in your bag of tricks Bob (for when you get your printer going). Might come in handy some day. Even though I know you have boxes and boxes of hardware.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=354470)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 03, 2020, 04:48 pm
Worked out what I snagged the other day.

So many goodies and all metric screws. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5qYLbZZACA)

Not started tear down yet.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 03, 2020, 05:10 pm
Worked out what I snagged the other day.

So many goodies and all metric screws. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5qYLbZZACA)

Not started tear down yet.


Erma Gurd!  :o  That is going to yield a big ole bucket full of goodies.  :)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 03, 2020, 06:49 pm
So basically I am probably just throwing most of the frame out.

The suspected nema 23 is in fact a nema 34 !
Hmm can I build  something that needs a bigger motor that weighs more than most of my machines   :smiley-evil:
Not like I am short of drivers for it either as there is a PAIR of them on the PCB

Overkill 24 volt solenoid too...Yep that would keep the wife out of my tools.

Nice mains filter and I already have a home for that. eeeny meeny miny mo on which machine shall you go.

So many other good mech parts too I may need some extra boxes and drawers to start a new branch of keepers.


(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=355185)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 03, 2020, 06:52 pm
Motor

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=355187)

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 03, 2020, 06:53 pm
main board

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=355189)

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 03, 2020, 07:06 pm
Motor

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=355187)


I'm visualizing someone scooting around the house in his remote controlled Lazy Boy.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 03, 2020, 07:11 pm
Hmmm Hadn't thought of that.

(https://images.slashdot.org/articles/08/08/19/1552255-1.png)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 12, 2020, 07:36 am
Well I got around to replacing the brushes in two spindles.

What a PITA until you realise you have to get the tool holder off FIRST.
There is a neat trick to that that just involves a screw and a nut.
Screw size will depend on the spindle size to some extent and what you can get into the ER11 is the remaining factor.

Drop screw through through the collet and put the nut on (the inside).
Run the nut back up the screw until the bottom of the screw just touches the spindle then two more turns.
Now run the collet up and tighten it a little to put pressure on the spindle.

Now using a spanner on the upper flats  of the tool holder and a spanner on the screw head start to tighten them.
If you get it right it will pull the toolholder off the shaft.
Check that the screw is still more or less inline with the spindle whilst doing this and if not back off the screw and reset the collet nut again.

Once that's off its almost childs play.
Two screws hold the top and bottom to the motor body.
Remove them but DO NOT pull the motor apart just yet.

Remove the bottom motor plate FIRST !
Then push the whole spindle and top out TOGETHER.
That will prevent the two bush springs wandering off into orbit never to be found again.

Now taking care pull back the bush wire and hook it onto the small nub that you will find on the bushing holder bracket. This is to keep the springs compressed.
Do that to both bushes.
Now you can remove the top motor plate but still be careful.

Now you can release one wire at a time from the nub keeping a close eye on that spring.
Once the bush is free capture the spring and place it somewhere safe...No not the safe place that you loose things the other safe place.

Some wires are crimped to the bush wire and some are soldered.
I cut the crimp off as close as I could.
Then I stripped back about 5mm of the main wire and then twisted the new brush wire with the stripped.

DONT wind too much of the brush wire to the main wire or you may have a problem re hooking the brush over the nubs again.

Plenty of solder then with some fine nosed pliers bend the soldered section back in line with the main wire like a small hook.

Pull the main wires back through the holes and make sure the hooked section just goes into that hole with it.
Squish it a little if you need but the hole is oval so there should be room.

You can start to re assemble by putting a spring in the sliding the brush in and then hooking the brush wire on the nub.
Make sure it is safely hooked or you will launch that spring !
Repeat for the other side.

Now is a good time to clean any gunk off the spindle where the brushes sit against it.
Dont use that grinder or dremel you may have handy you just need to gently scrape off the carbon residue

Now you can slide the spindle back onto the top plate and when its all sat safe where it should be then you can release the brush wires.

Now do NOT pull that top plate off the spindle or push it upwards or those pesky springs will be away.
carefully reinsert the spindle and top plate back into the body but BEWARE that once it starts in it may want to pull itself through because of the magnets so yo have to control that so as not to loose hold of the top plate.

There is a small notch on the top plate that lines up with one on the body.
Also make sure the grommet goes in the slot too.

Once they are inserted you can slide the bottom plate back up the shaft.
That too has matching notches.

Once everything looks reasonably seated you can put the two screws back in.
Before you fully tighten them make sure the top and bottom plates are sitting flat to the body.
DONT use threadlock !

Now before you put the fan and toolholder on you may want to give your handiwork a quick test.
Anything from 12 to 40 volts should set it going.
If it doesn't fire up first time then spin the spindle a little bit for a few seconds by hand.

Now if you got it all done right and it spins with power applied you will have spent about $2 and have a perfectly working spindle again.

Put the tool holder on first but with some light oil on the shaft.
I had to get out the rubber mallet as they tend to almost be a size for size fit.
Once the toolholder is back on then you can re-fit the fan.

Check it all works once again and if you are happy then put it in the spares pile or back on the machine.

Roughly about 30 minutes if you take care or almost 2 hours and still cursing if you dont take off the toolholder.



Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 12, 2020, 02:01 pm
Well I got around to replacing the brushes in two spindles.

What a PITA until you realise you have to get the tool holder off FIRST.
There is a neat trick to that that just involves a screw and a nut.
Screw size will depend on the spindle size to some extent and what you can get into the ER11 is the remaining factor.
We need photos! Do it again! :smiley-grin:  :smiley-twist:  :smiley-grin:
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 12, 2020, 03:12 pm
I have some expletives here for you to collect with your truck :smiley-grin:

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 12, 2020, 05:01 pm
I have some expletives here for you to collect with your truck :smiley-grin:


I'm sure you do!!!
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: dagoston93 on Apr 17, 2020, 04:32 pm
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353931)

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=353933)

Hi,
I am just designing my first ever CNC machine, and ballscrewbob directed me to this topic.
(Here is the topic I created: https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=677816.0 (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=677816.0))

Dear DangerToMyself, ballscrewbob said there that your spindle holder design is very good (I like it a lot as well), and I am wondering if you could share a few more pictures of it. That could be a great help, while re-designing mine. :)

Best regards,
Agoston
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 17, 2020, 06:21 pm
Hi,
I am just designing my first ever CNC machine, and ballscrewbob directed me to this topic.
(Here is the topic I created: https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=677816.0 (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=677816.0))

Dear DangerToMyself, ballscrewbob said there that your spindle holder design is very good (I like it a lot as well), and I am wondering if you could share a few more pictures of it. That could be a great help, while re-designing mine. :)

Best regards,
Agoston
I'll do you one better (maybe). PM me with your email address and I'll send you the STL file. I have not printed/installed it yet (life has been interrupting me). So, no idea if the bugs are all worked out. Mine requires some new hardware (longer rods and lead screw). Oh! And longer vertical support extrusions (300mm). But I designed it to get as much Z travel as I felt I would ever need with this machine without loosing too much rigidity.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: dagoston93 on Apr 17, 2020, 07:35 pm
Thank you very much!
I will send my e-mail in PM in a minute :)
And good luck with finishing yours :)

Best wishes,
Agoston
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 17, 2020, 09:18 pm
Thank you very much!
I will send my e-mail in PM in a minute :)
And good luck with finishing yours :)

Best wishes,
Agoston

Check your mailbox :)
Oh yeah. I have to split that up into parts to be able to print it. It's just a bit too big for my 3D printer. I could do it standing upright. But for strength, I want to print it laying down on it's side.
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 18, 2020, 02:46 am
@Danger

Maybe you really should knock a couple out and put them up for sale.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTUZ7lyZSpfzf-rbUET2thbtqvRmmuzToaKavkahJPwu0AF9baV&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 18, 2020, 03:04 am
@Danger

Maybe you really should knock a couple out and put them up for sale.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTUZ7lyZSpfzf-rbUET2thbtqvRmmuzToaKavkahJPwu0AF9baV&usqp=CAU)


Nah! Then I would feel all criminally inside when I didn't tell Uncle Sam about it come tax time.:D
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: dagoston93 on Apr 18, 2020, 09:25 am
Check your mailbox :)
Oh yeah. I have to split that up into parts to be able to print it. It's just a bit too big for my 3D printer. I could do it standing upright. But for strength, I want to print it laying down on it's side.

Received it, and thanks a lot again :)
Yes it's better to print it laying down :)

Best wishes,
Agoston
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 19, 2020, 06:11 am
Ok so I have been getting quite brave with the bigger machine this weekend.

4mm deep cut 4x1R taper and 700 mm feed rate.
Its a little noisey in my basement....I said its LOUD DOWN HERE.
No there is no crowd down here just me.
I said...Oh to H*** with it.

Wait I heard a chocolate wrapper BRB.

Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: DangerToMyself on Apr 19, 2020, 02:32 pm
Ok so I have been getting quite brave with the bigger machine this weekend.

4mm deep cut 4x1R taper and 700 mm feed rate.
Its a little noisey in my basement....I said its LOUD DOWN HERE.
No there is no crowd down here just me.
I said...Oh to H*** with it.

Wait I heard a chocolate wrapper BRB.


Don't forget your hearing protection!

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=358452)
Title: Re: Desktop CNC advice request
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 19, 2020, 05:03 pm
wuz han aksident onest guv.

Enywun can tipe 12 hinstead of 1.2.

Oh well its realli soft wood let it ride itself out.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=642065.0;attach=358509)