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Community => Bar Sport => Topic started by: ardly on Jan 02, 2020, 07:48 pm

Title: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Jan 02, 2020, 07:48 pm
It is only 2/Jan and Norway has just broken the record for its highest January temperature, it is 25 (twenty-five) degrees above the seasonal average!

In Norway, until now a cold country, 10% of vehicles are electric.

Meanwhile in Australia politicians still seem to be defending their pro-coal stance. It is estimated that so far 500 million animals have died in the bush fires there, and new fire warnings continue to be issued. All Australian states have been experiencing +40C temperatures and, apart from the fires, wild animals are also dying in numbers simply because of the high ambient temperature.

The world is flat, it is only 8,000 years old, NASA never landed men on the moon, climate change is a myth.

What on earth does it take for some politicians to waken up to the facts and the gravity and urgency of the present situation.







Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Jan 02, 2020, 08:22 pm
Money.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 02, 2020, 10:39 pm
Sadly I am inclined to agree with @Qdeathstar.

Humans don't seem to be able to put "profit" to one side and be content with "enough" rather than "more". Perhaps it's our genes which evolved when the search for more was necessary for survival.

Yes I know well that some humans can be selfless - but they seem to be a small minority, or perhaps they are only selfless about a narrow range of things.

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. Perhaps human intelligence is a poor indicator of long term species survival.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Jan 02, 2020, 11:09 pm
Well. I disagree about the long term survival part. Even if global warming causes the death of 3/4 of the human species it will still have a very healthy population.

I think famine due to global warming and fast spreading diseases due to dense population and over use of antibiotics are going to claim enough humans prior to the earth being permanently changed into Venus.  But not enough as to cause the extinction of man. We are pretty adaptable.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 03, 2020, 10:13 am
Well. I disagree about the long term survival part. Even if global warming causes the death of 3/4 of the human species it will still have a very healthy population.
You may be right - but 5 billion deaths is a very unpleasant prospect - just because humans aren't prepared to compromise. Like that stupid Bush man stirring up trouble with Iran.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: dougp on Jan 04, 2020, 03:55 am
Like that stupid Bush man stirring up trouble with Iran.
Iran shoots down U.S. drone.  Iran damages Saudi Arabia's oil facilities.  Iran mines international shipping.  Iran aids Hezbollah.  Iran dedicated to the destruction of Israel.  Iran kills U.S. contractor.  Iran attacks U.S. embassy (again).

Some Iranians celebrate the killing of Soleimani. (http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3805378/posts)

Who's stirring?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: thehardwareman on Jan 04, 2020, 09:35 am
The current minister of energy claim that Norwegian oil is a part of the CO2-solution! Believe it or not. I guess if you repeat a lie many times it become true.

As one in the current government said "Every drop [of oil] shall up". But the truth is that it's only about the money.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 04, 2020, 09:38 am
Iran shoots down U.S. drone.
What was the drone doing in the first place.
In the second place it's just a machine.

Quote
Iran damages Saudi Arabia's oil facilities.
Isn't that a matter for the Saudis - they are not exactly defenceless

Quote
Iran mines international shipping.
If the mines are in international waters then just sweep them up

Quote
Iran aids Hezbollah.  Iran dedicated to the destruction of Israel.
The Israelis bring a lot of that on themselves by their abominable treatment of the Palestinians. It may even be the root cause of the other issues

Quote
Iran kills U.S. contractor.
Was the contractor doing military work? Or was he just collateral damage - which never seems to count when the US does it.

Quote
Iran attacks U.S. embassy (again)
Close the embassy

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 04, 2020, 01:30 pm
Meanwhile in Australia politicians still seem to be defending their pro-coal stance. It is estimated that so far 500 million animals have died in the bush fires there, and new fire warnings continue to be issued. All Australian states have been experiencing +40C temperatures and, apart from the fires, wild animals are also dying in numbers simply because of the high ambient temperature.

What on earth does it take for some politicians to waken up to the facts and the gravity and urgency of the present situation.
500million where did that come from?
Our pollies have been standing out in the sun too long.
Tom..... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 04, 2020, 02:58 pm
Our pollies have been standing out in the sun too long.
Maybe it's time to give the country back to its rightful owners ?

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Jan 04, 2020, 03:13 pm
The current minister of energy claim that Norwegian oil is a part of the CO2-solution! Believe it or not. I guess if you repeat a lie many times it become true.
Well, yes - by taking the nasty sticky stuff out of the ground, you make huge voids that you can then use for CO2 sequestration.
Duh.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: dougp on Jan 04, 2020, 03:24 pm
If the mines are in international waters then just sweep them up
Not the water, actual ships, with people aboard.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics/us-images-iranian-boat-removing-mine/index.html

Besides, if they were in the water I guess one wouldn't know they were there until some innocent passerby's ship unexplainedly goes BOOM!

Isn't that a matter for the Saudis - they are not exactly defenceless
Beside the point.  The point is an illustration of Iranian troublemaking.

The Israelis bring a lot of that on themselves by their abominable treatment of the Palestinians. It may even be the root cause of the other issues
So that's justification to wipe an entire people from the Earth?

Close the embassy
Party A attacks an embassy (sovereign territory) belonging to party B situated in party C's country.  What is party A doing in party C's country to begin with?


Was the contractor doing military work? Or was he just collateral damage - which never seems to count when the US does it.
Again, why is party A attacking nationals of party B in party C's country?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Jan 04, 2020, 05:11 pm
Tom, bugs are animals too.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 04, 2020, 05:48 pm
Referring to Replies #7 and #11

I was trying to make the point that the USA perspective on the world is not the only valid one.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: larryd on Jan 04, 2020, 07:15 pm
Referring to Replies #7 and #11

I was trying to make the point that the USA perspective on the world is not the only valid one.

...R
Might means right. :(



Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Jan 04, 2020, 07:31 pm
It's the only one that matters to me, robin...

#americanAF
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Jan 04, 2020, 07:32 pm
But sand flees don't deserve a perspective
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 04, 2020, 08:35 pm
It's the only one that matters to me, robin...
That's disappointing. This is a multinational Forum and I had hoped it would help in small way to bring people together towards a common set of values.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Jan 05, 2020, 12:51 am
...
Again, why is party A attacking nationals of party B in party C's country?

Thread hijack, thread hijack, go and start your own thread elsewhere.

This one was about Norway ( a cold country ) having 10% electric cars and Australia having a 3 year drought, record breaking temperatures, literally being on fire and their politicians still supporting the coal industry and shrugging climate change off as a myth!!!

Anyway did party B not actually invade party C and has party C not been telling party B to F off both before and after party B decided to invade C ? In fact are party C not now welcoming party A as a friend who is "an enemy or our enemy" ?

I have a vivid recollection of an interview before Iraq was invaded in which the person speaking said something along the lines of; whatever we think of Sadam ( and I am really, really not saying we don't like him ) we hate the USA.

I remember thinking that this did not bode well for any invasion of Iraq which seemed to be a thinly veiled pretext for controlling oil in Iraq and getting forces close to the border with Iran. It has been 16 years since Iraq was invaded to overthrow the despotic tyrant Saddam Hussein - when are the locals going to come out to welcome the liberators?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Jan 05, 2020, 01:20 am
That's disappointing. This is a multinational Forum and I had hoped it would help in small way to bring people together towards a common set of values.

...R
Code: [Select]

Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
Pull your head out of your hippie haze
And give a listen
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 05, 2020, 06:20 am
Hi,
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=340510)
Are you guys in the rest of the  world aware that you are getting more facts about our fires than we are.
This is not a fire, its a furnace.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=340512)
4mill hectares = 9.8mill acres = 15,400 sq miles.
Tom... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: larryd on Jan 05, 2020, 06:55 am
Tom, we had something similar a few years back, horrible situation.

Cann't even image what you people are going through.

Sent some 80 fire fighters from Canada down to help with fighting the fires.


Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 05, 2020, 09:26 am
I believe what is really needed in Australia is water.

If my memory is correct in one of Jared Diamond's books he commented on the fact that the early settlers to Australia overlooked the fact that it is a very dry continent - quite unlike the Europe they had travelled from.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 05, 2020, 05:41 pm
As with the Californian wildfires, our bushfires are driven my strong winds and minimal access to the fire zones.
NSW fires are in the Great Dividing Range, Blue Mountains, all the fighters can do is protect assets, protect people and wait till the fire reaches their closest access points.

A good hot strong northerly will make just about anything burn, hot enough to melt steel and vapourise aluminium.

Where I was born ,its flat plains, and even with very little dry ground cover a fire will get away, fire balls and flying embers are the most danger.
They can get into buildings and under roofs, or allow a fire to jump great distances without burning anything in between.

All I can do is donate money to the firey's relief funds that have been setup.
As in a lot of countries, most of the force is made  up of volunteers.

Tom..
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 06, 2020, 06:31 am
Hi,
The view down my street this afternoon, and the view over looking  the city of Ballarat Victoria.
Smoke from bushfires in Tasmania. 700kms away.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=340724)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=340726)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=340734)
The smoke smells faintly of coal burning, its the Huon Pine trees in Tasmania.
Tom... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Coding Badly on Jan 06, 2020, 07:00 am
I disagree about the long term survival part.
The Unites States and Russia have enough nuclear weapons to easily permanently eliminate all human life.  Which has been true since Reagan's second term.  The United States has a president that brings new meaning to the phrase "lunatic fringe".  Basic facts contradict your personal opinion.

Bear in mind humans have inhabited this planet a very very very tiny fraction of its history and that this planet has already had more than one significant extinction event.  The difference this time around is we're driving the bus.

Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 06, 2020, 08:40 am
Quote
Mutual(ly) assured destruction (MAD) is a doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine) of military strategy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy) and national security policy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security) in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon) by two or more opposing sides would cause the complete annihilation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_holocaust) of both the attacker and the defender (see pre-emptive nuclear strike (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-emptive_nuclear_strike) and second strike (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_strike)). It is based on the theory of deterrence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory), which holds that the threat of using strong weapons against the enemy prevents the enemy's use of those same weapons. The strategy is a form of Nash equilibrium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium) in which, once armed, neither side has any incentive to initiate a conflict or to disarm.
The term "mutual assured destruction" was coined by Donald Brennan, a strategist working in Herman Kahn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Kahn)'s Hudson Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Institute) in 1962.
MAD since 1962. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction#cite_note-2)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 06, 2020, 09:35 am
The difference this time around is we're driving the bus.
For some definition of "driving"  :)

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Jan 09, 2020, 04:27 pm
What on earth does it take for some politicians to waken up to the facts and the gravity and urgency of the present situation.
If a man's living depends upon him not learning something then he will not learn it.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Jan 09, 2020, 07:42 pm
Tom,
Thanks for the personal account and photos, makes it more real coming from someone I know, if only through this forum. Much appreciated. ++Karma; and I hope you are safe.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Coding Badly on Jan 09, 2020, 08:27 pm
MAD since 1962. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction#cite_note-2)
Before Reagan there was some doubt about "eliminate all human life".  He put a solid end to that sliver of hope.

Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 11, 2020, 04:48 am
If we lose a large percent of humanity due to the coming greater insanity that warming promises and yet humans manage to survive it will be with greatly reduced knowledge and abilities even in groups that didn't start as self-retarding religious nuts.

When rich people consider alternatives to their path one thing is paramount: will our kids rule?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: larryd on Jan 14, 2020, 07:16 am
Wish we could give 20 degrees to our friends down under.   :smiley-sad-blue:

OMG, Doctor apt. tomorrow, supposed to have a wind chill of -42'C.  :smiley-eek-blue:

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=341903)


Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 14, 2020, 09:51 am
And a few inches of rain from here just to stop the landslides. Unfortunately we can't afford the shipping.

Are there people in Calgary who don't have snowsuits? No way you just pull one pair of jeans over another and an extra sweater under the coat... you wouldn't be able to go out how many months a year?

How close to the polar circle do you live? I knew a guy named from north Ontario who said they lived close, ride in the car and the first few miles was bumpy till the rubber warmed up. We get your cold tomorrow for maybe a whole week only by the time it gets here it's about -5C or so. 
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 14, 2020, 11:01 am
Wish we could give 20 degrees to our friends down under.   :smiley-sad-blue:

OMG, Doctor apt. tomorrow, supposed to have a wind chill of -42'C.  :smiley-eek-blue:

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=341903)



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Hot enough thankyou and hotter elsewhere...
Although -27C off our current temps would be good for or firefighters.  :)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=341913)
Tom... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: larryd on Jan 14, 2020, 05:41 pm
" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Hot enough thankyou and hotter elsewhere..."

Was going to give you -20 (minus) i.e. if you have 40'C then you would be down to 20 :)


Well, its -33°C this morning, the truck's tires were square :(.
The Doctor was late!



Canceled our picnic lunch:

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=342012)



Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Jan 15, 2020, 03:37 am
why do you live in the only place where hell freezes over
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: larryd on Jan 15, 2020, 03:55 am
Must be cold blooded I guess, I don't know.

(https://www.larchlearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/pst-Alberta.png)


13km west of HELL.

Edit
Because there are no snakes here :).




Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 15, 2020, 12:36 pm
Coal-powered Australia might take a look at the Solana Generating Plant in Arizona, USA.

It's awfully good of Australia to dump veggies around for the surviving animals, saw Roos eating carrots in the news here.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 15, 2020, 02:35 pm
Coal-powered Australia might take a look at the Solana Generating Plant in Arizona, USA.

It's awfully good of Australia to dump veggies around for the surviving animals, saw Roos eating carrots in the news here.
Unfortunately the Koala population has more strict dietary requirements, even down to a particular variety of gum tree.
So they will be harder to put back into the wild, especially as their own areas are stuffed,  they would be invading areas already with a Koala population.
Some may never go back into the wild. :(

As for alternative energy sources, bloody politicians, bloody big business.
Also if we don't burn our coal, we will be continuing to sell it to China along with our Natural Gas and iron ore, so we can buy back processed iron/steel we supplied and still pollute the earth.

Degrasse Tyson was once in a discussion about Mars, he was asked about terraforming it.

He replied that the human race can do that easily, we have already terraformed our earth!!!!!  :o :o :o
Or is that TERROR-FORMED?????

(PS, if they can get a good deal, the roos and other wildlife could get a gig advertising fresh vegies for COLES, ALDI or WOOLIES....)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 16, 2020, 03:01 am
You have Aldi's too? Love the place, it's where I get my booch.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 16, 2020, 05:49 pm
You have Aldi's too? Love the place, it's where I get my booch.
I do about 90% of my shopping there.
Other supermarkets for my coffee pods, bread and diet cordial.
I bought my grandson his Iron Man toy at ALDI, it was the proper Marvel model.
$20.00 as against $35.00 on the net and $50.00 from the shops.
Makes all the right noises too.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=342233)
Where I live pop 101,000 we have 5 stores.
The other thing I like is there is always someone watching the checkout lines and they instantly open extra checkouts when needed.
The other supermarkets are hopeless in that respect.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 17, 2020, 01:00 am
Some things aren't so different... besides Arduino.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 23, 2020, 01:05 pm
Hi,
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=343189)
Australia   7.69 Million km2
USA          9.83 Million  km2
The accuracy of the fire coverage is a bit suspect as it may be a show of fires over a 4 week period or longer, definitely not a single day snapshot.
Tom.... :(
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Jan 26, 2020, 11:15 pm
clippity clop, clippity clop, I am sure that I can hear horses.

The scale of the Australian fires is such that the CO2 released must surely have global impact. Just the area of black charred ground is going to have local if not global climate impact.

These figures are not normal. The entire continent of Australia has had above average temperatures. Perhaps even more worrying than the bush fires is wild life simply dying of heatstroke.

I have heard that the same climate phenomenon that exacerbated (or even caused) the bush fires is being blamed for the locust problem in Africa. Apparently the swarm is now covering an area of 900 square miles and is growing. The report said that the number of insects may increase by x500 (that may not equate to the same increase in swarm area).

Meanwhile China heroically tries to deal with a new coronavirus that appears to be coming more infectious. As long as it does not also become more deadly all is well, otherwise - clip clop, clip clop.

On happier notes;
Your Aldi does not sound like mine, opening new lanes to cope with customers!!!

As for Koalas either I have a sick mind or I recall that they feed their offspring their poo which helps develop gut bacteria that aid digestion of local leaves. As a result koala rescuers have been giving rescued koalas "poo shakes" from animals in their destination location with some success in rehabilitating them.



Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 27, 2020, 06:07 am
Your Aldi does not sound like mine, opening new lanes to cope with customers!!!
Most Aldi stores have 5 lanes, they make sure one is open all the time.
When the cashier sees that their line is full and one or more waiting out the back  of the line, they press a button and this voice says.
"We are opening register 5, please unload you groceries at register 5".
They must have a roster of who out on the floor stops stacking and opens "register 5" because within 30seconds the register is working.
It is very efficient and works very well.
Aldi's register lanes are about 6m long, so two or three or four people can unload at once, the table is a conveyor belt.

The other supermarket chains are hopeless when it comes to this sort of logistics.
They wait until there are 5 or 6 people waiting out in the line, obstructing everybody else who is trying to shop.
Then who ever is in charge on the floor, tries to find an employee to and open a register, "1" register, instead of 2 or 3 to cater for the back log.
Their lanes have enough length for one customer at  time with a good load of groceries.

Supermarkets have security cameras, why don't they use them to monitor the register backlog and organise register logistics. (Then that would be too easy!!!)

Does this mean that McDonald's McCafe AND Aldi register logistics are both Australian ideas!!!!!!!  8) :D :D :D 8)

Tom... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Jan 27, 2020, 09:09 am
I generally use the self scan checkouts these days. I don't like the feeling that I am being rushed through the ones with a checkout operative. They scan faster than I can pack leaving me with a pile of stuff to put in bags then pay while they and the rest of the queue wait for me to finish. At a self checkout* I can go at my own speed.

*Is 'self checkout' some kind of automated medical check system?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 27, 2020, 09:34 am
I generally use the self scan checkouts these days. I don't like the feeling that I am being rushed through the ones with a checkout operative. They scan faster than I can pack leaving me with a pile of stuff to put in bags then pay while they and the rest of the queue wait for me to finish. At a self checkout* I can go at my own speed.

*Is 'self checkout' some kind of automated medical check system?
If I have a handful of goods I'll use the "self checkout"  :) .
But a full shop I use the cashier, and I put the goods in my "trolley bags".
I can keep up with them cos I unpack on the belt in a specific order. (No I'm not ADDDDDddddd...... :o )

Tom... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 27, 2020, 09:43 am
Did the fires end the drop bear scourge?



Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 27, 2020, 02:08 pm
Did the fires end the drop bear scourge?
I haven't heard any reporting of them since the fires started, so the the fires may have lowered their population.
OR
The lack of trees to drop out of might be the problem.
https://youtu.be/EwmoiUrC02g (https://youtu.be/EwmoiUrC02g)
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=343777)
Tom... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Jan 27, 2020, 02:26 pm
I heard Florida now has drop iguanas.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 27, 2020, 02:32 pm
South Florida, and really big pythons and an invasive frog species but worse, LOTS OF over 90 year old drivers.

The roaches there are big enough for collars and leashes.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 30, 2020, 08:53 am
Hi,
Have a look at this video;

https://youtu.be/4W-wLs25T10 (https://youtu.be/4W-wLs25T10)

Here is the comment that went with it;

Quote
"4th January 2020
Currowan Fire Shoalhaven
Dunmore 1 Crew 5
Overrun Dash Cam

Timely reminder how quick a fire can impact under a southerly wind which hits 10 minutes earlier than forecasted.
Our Brigade was tasked to undertake property protection ahead of the Southerly Wind which is expected to hit around 19:10 hours in Tomerong.
18:59.14 Crew has set up for property protection and receiving supplies from other units. You will notice there is no current wind in the area.
18:59:24 Southerly wind begins to hit the area.
19:00.05 Crew brace for property protection, which is out of view on the left side of our truck.
19:00.10 Day turns to night.
19:00.25 Ember attack commences.
19:00.40 Southerly wind hits at 100kph.
19:01.00 Extreme ember attack, spot fires and overrun hits our crew and truck.
19:01.22 Crew member activates cab sprays to protect truck as fire spreads rapidly to the North.
19:01:35 Crew continue to protect themselves, property and truck.
19:02.14 Cab sprays turned off. Visibility still poor with ember attack continuing to hit.
19:02.40 Cab sprays activated again for protection.

This goes to show what happens in just over 3 minutes. The crew continues for another 9 minutes on the ground bringing a massive positive outcome, with a complete safe crew, protected truck and property saved.
People are reminded to adhere to the warnings when given from the appropriate services as this is not a pleasant place to be when a fire impacts at any time, especially at short notice.
Ensure your Bushfire Plan is in place.

Kind Regards Dunmore RFS."
Note the camera is on a MANNED fire truck full of volunteers.

Tom.... :o
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Budvar10 on Jan 30, 2020, 08:36 pm
 :o
Hell! Incredibly fast.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Jan 30, 2020, 09:30 pm
Tom,
Sadly that video doesn't play.

What is the state of the wild fires now? They've gone off the UK news, which suggests they are no longer a serious problem, is that true?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: larryd on Jan 30, 2020, 10:02 pm
OMG

That is horrible!



Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 30, 2020, 11:02 pm
Sadly that video doesn't play.
It did for me this morning, but not now.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 31, 2020, 12:07 am
It did for me this morning, but not now.

...R
Its been removed from the channels playlist.
An image from the front window of the firetruck, before the sprinklers were turned on.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=344327)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 31, 2020, 12:18 am
Hi,
Try this one;
https://youtu.be/Fa6o77ltr5U (https://youtu.be/Fa6o77ltr5U)

Tom... :)
PS, Most of the Victorian FireTrucks are made just down the road from where I work.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Jan 31, 2020, 07:21 am
Quote
Try this one;
Thanks, that plays. Horrible. No way you'd get me in there.

As for it not being on the news much now in the UK, I just read that Canberra is suffering really badly from the fires.

I hope you're OK Tom.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Jan 31, 2020, 08:33 am
Thanks, that plays. Horrible. No way you'd get me in there.

As for it not being on the news much now in the UK, I just read that Canberra is suffering really badly from the fires.

I hope you're OK Tom.
Yes, fine in my part of the country, but very warm and high gusty winds this afternoon, plus thunder storms on the way.
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=656736.0;attach=344346)
So the local CFA will be alert.
Tom... :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Jan 31, 2020, 10:28 am
Tom,
In the UK it is the middle of winter, this month and February have always had snow, sometimes a lot of snow. So far, where I live, we have had no snow whatsoever. There has been minimal snow on high ground, but not much. Temperature here is 8.8 Centigrade, over night low about 7. It should be several degrees colder. Time 09:27 in the morning. And still people deny climate change.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Jan 31, 2020, 11:58 am
Tom,
In the UK it is the middle of winter, this month and February have always had snow, sometimes a lot of snow. So far, where I live, we have had no snow whatsoever. There has been minimal snow on high ground, but not much. Temperature here is 8.8 Centigrade, over night low about 7. It should be several degrees colder. Time 09:27 in the morning. And still people deny climate change.
I first saw it in 72, two weeks of spring in early February when my troop always winter-camped. Every year since the breaks got longer until now we have occasional bouts of winter with fall into spring most of the time. This is at 40 degrees North.

When I lived on Oahu 77-78 there was rainy season and summer. We're heading for that only chaotic and either tons of rain or hardly any rain.

If there is a Satan, he's behind this.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Budvar10 on Jan 31, 2020, 08:54 pm
@PerryBebbington
Same here in the SK. We used to have around -10oC for weeks during winter now it is only exception. It is more around 0oC usually.

@GoForSmoke "When I lived on Oahu..."
Hmm... Oahu ...it's like you woke up in the morning and started your next vacation day, isn't it?  8)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Feb 01, 2020, 03:32 am
@PerryBebbington
Same here in the SK. We used to have around -10oC for weeks during winter now it is only exception. It is more around 0oC usually.

@GoForSmoke "When I lived on Oahu..."
Hmm... Oahu ...it's like you woke up in the morning and started your next vacation day, isn't it?  8)

I wouldn't have described life in the 25th Infantry as a vacation but here and there was time off-post.

6AM in summer at 95F to start the day with the morning 5K in-formation run to get warmed up for the daily insanity.
 

Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Budvar10 on Feb 01, 2020, 08:02 pm
I thought you was in the army or something. Just teasing. :) 
We have no sea. To be on the island in the mid of ocean is kind of exotic for me. 
35oC early morning must be really tough. As I wrote above, I am in central Europe. Everything above 33oC is pretty uncomfortable. 
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Feb 02, 2020, 04:06 am
And after a few months to a year on that island you may get rock fever and want to take a long ride that is not a closed loop.

The Vietnam Vets I served with humped gear in far worse. They were just breaking us in and us HQ guys had it soft. The grunts marched around in full gear and camo grease in afternoon on days that started like that and pretty much any day.

I was told that before 1968 they were a bit lax and took beaucoup casualties as green troops vs NVA seasoned combat vets. So we got extra helpings of training and BS. 
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 02, 2020, 02:45 pm
earth has been much warmer in the past and will be cooler again. 
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Feb 02, 2020, 03:19 pm
earth has been much warmer in the past and will be cooler again. 
Was it hospitable to humans? Nearly 8 billion of them? Humans that rely on extensive farming for food?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: GoForSmoke on Feb 03, 2020, 02:16 am
Yet we throw food out here, sometimes just to keep the price up!

 
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 03, 2020, 03:23 am
If famine causes the human population to fall by 50 percent that might be a blessing for the human race...
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Feb 03, 2020, 12:03 pm
If famine causes the human population to fall by 50 percent that might be a blessing for the human race...
It'll be a blessing for almost every other species on the planet.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 03, 2020, 12:15 pm
It'll be a blessing for almost every other species on the planet.
Especially the grubs that will be eating the corpses.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Feb 03, 2020, 12:51 pm
Quote
Especially the grubs that will be eating the corpses.
:o
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Feb 06, 2020, 09:11 pm
If famine causes the human population to fall by 50 percent that might be a blessing for the human race...
The problem with a dramatic population decline is that it would also result in a technological decline and we may have literally burned our bridges in terms of being able to bootstrap our way back. With a lot of resources we have already taken all the low hanging fruit. Without current technology we may not have the ability to access the resources needed to regain our present abilities.

As for Australia it has plenty of wind and solar power available to it but it remains far more dependent on coal than other developed countries. I cannot understand why politicians seem unable to learn from the fires and take a much more positive stance with renewables.

I an not sure how Norway has done it with their electric cars but they certainly seem to be trying.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Feb 07, 2020, 12:44 am
As for the Coronavirus it seems to have hit most of the world now. Really only South America, Africa and the Middle East have not reported cases, but that might mean that they just do not have the capability to detect them.

What I do find worrying is that the 34 year doctor in China who started blowing the whistle on a SARS like disease has died from it. Presently only 30,000 people are infected and only 600 have died which is just 2%. However if presumably healthy 34 year olds are dying from an airborne, initially symptomless disease, that is not good news and harks back to the 1918 flu pandemic. Flu normally kills the old, the young and the sick, not healthy adults.

SARS was more deadly than the new virus (at least for now) but it was also much less infectious. If memory serves me correctly the Germans posted armed guards to prevent anybody leaving hospitals treating SARS patients, that is how serious it was. Although the new virus is, for now, less deadly it has already killed more people than SARS because of its higher infection rate.

I think the Chinese have done a remarkable job in delaying the spread of this virus let's hope that the time which they have bought is wisely spent.


Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 07, 2020, 10:11 am
The problem with a dramatic population decline is that it would also result in a technological decline
That may be no bad thing.

OK I would miss the ability to use the internet but after a few weeks I'm sure I would find something else to interest me.

Forgive me for repeating my belief that people were just as happy in 820 as they are now in 2020. Technology is irrelevant for happiness.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Feb 07, 2020, 10:42 am
Quote
OK I would miss the ability to use the internet but after a few weeks I'm sure I would find something else to interest me.
How do you know you wouldn't be part of drastic decline in population?
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Feb 07, 2020, 10:45 am
Forgive me for repeating my belief that people were just as happy in 820 as they are now in 2020. Technology is irrelevant for happiness.
Yes, they may have been happy in 820, but just not, individually, for so long.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Feb 07, 2020, 10:50 am
I an not sure how Norway has done it with their electric cars but they certainly seem to be trying.
By being in possession of a small population and a large income.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TomGeorge on Feb 07, 2020, 11:05 am
As for Australia it has plenty of wind and solar power available to it but it remains far more dependent on coal than other developed countries. I cannot understand why politicians seem unable to learn from the fires and take a much more positive stance with renewables.

I an not sure how Norway has done it with their electric cars but they certainly seem to be trying.
Norway has a different philosophy to EV cars.
They see it as one  way to ease urban pollution.
They give tax concessions to EV owners.
They provide FREE CBD parking to EV owners.
They provide FREE charging in the FREE parking spaces.
So theoretically you should never have to charge your EV......
I also think they have lane travel concessions on their highways.

Now that has to be an incentive to purchase an EV.
Tom... :) 
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 07, 2020, 12:52 pm
Yes, they may have been happy in 820, but just not, individually, for so long.
How can that matter. You cannot be happy or unhappy after you have died - you just don't exist.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 07, 2020, 01:55 pm
Total Accumulated Happiness and Distributed Angriness Heuristics (TAH-DaH) are both higher in 2020 than 820.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Feb 07, 2020, 04:03 pm
How can that matter. You cannot be happy or unhappy after you have died - you just don't exist.

...R
But more people, for longer, just as happy == overall greater happinesses.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 07, 2020, 04:57 pm
But more people, for longer, just as happy == overall greater happinesses.
Fair enough.

I was referring to the happiness of the individual.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Coding Badly on Feb 08, 2020, 08:40 am
I was referring to the happiness of the individual.
In which case 1952 is the magic year.

Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Feb 08, 2020, 10:20 am
In which case 1952 is the magic year.


Only in the USA.
The UK had rationing until 1954, and I don't imagine there were too many happy Koreans in '52.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 08, 2020, 10:38 am
In which case 1952 is the magic year.
Apart from being the year of my birth, why?

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Coding Badly on Feb 08, 2020, 09:35 pm

Polio vaccine.

Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Feb 08, 2020, 10:23 pm
Apart from being the year of my birth, why?

...R
Well you are living in some kind of fantasy land. Your rose tinted spectacles would be fine for watching a total eclipse.
If you think things would be so much happier in the past give a date and location and your social status e.g. landowner/master/serf/slave.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 09, 2020, 11:13 am
If you think things would be so much happier in the past give a date and location and your social status e.g. landowner/master/serf/slave.
I strongly suspect you are imagining whether you would be happy if your were transported from the present to some date far in the past.

If you were born in 800 then by 820 you would be a mature adult and, no matter what your status in society, you would have no experience of any other life. (Of course I am deliberately excluding the person who is in the process of having his arm chopped off in a fight - I don't reckon that was all that common, even if history books like to major on battles).

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 09, 2020, 03:52 pm
If you were to take a child and lock him in a room, then took him out occasionally to work in the sun planting crops, then throw him back in the cell, not feed him well, beat him daily, would he be happy as an adult because he knows nothing else?

I'm having a hard time imagining a happy slave.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 09, 2020, 08:31 pm
If you were to take a child and lock him in a room, then took him out occasionally to work in the sun planting crops, then throw him back in the cell, not feed him well, beat him daily, would he be happy as an adult because he knows nothing else?

I'm having a hard time imagining a happy slave.
You are picking an extreme example. Even so, I suspect the answer to your question is probably "yes".

To take a modern example, I can't imagine myself being happy if I had an artificial leg to replace one lost to a landmine. But people in that situation do seem to be happy.

Everyone always has ideas about what would make them happier. I think as we get older we realise that the extra happiness wears off as quickly as the new smell disappears from the new car.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Feb 09, 2020, 09:33 pm
Quote
Everyone always has ideas about what would make them happier.
I think what makes you happy is being comfortable with the situation you find yourself in, whatever that might be.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Feb 10, 2020, 02:36 pm
I strongly suspect you are imagining whether you would be happy if your were transported from the present to some date far in the past.

If you were born in 800 then by 820 you would be a mature adult and, no matter what your status in society, you would have no experience of any other life. (Of course I am deliberately excluding the person who is in the process of having his arm chopped off in a fight - I don't reckon that was all that common, even if history books like to major on battles).

...R
You have avoided answering the question "if you think things would be so much happier in the past give a date and location and your social status e.g. landowner/master/serf/slave". You should also give your gender because in many places that made the difference between being a person and just being a chattel even today women are unhappy about sexual discrimination.
I was not imagining myself being sent back in time, I was thinking that if you specified the above we could try and determine what conditions were really like.
I do not buy the idea that people would have been happy because they did not know anything different. It seems quite possible that people could feel, pain, hunger and fear and be thinking that life was a terrible grind. 

Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 10, 2020, 03:02 pm
You have avoided answering the question
I did not. I was very careful to say, in Reply #90 "no matter what your status in society" and I specified the year as 820.

If you want to nit-pick I admit I did not cover the question of location - but I don't believe that matters either, no more than it does today.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Feb 10, 2020, 11:50 pm
I did not. I was very careful to say, in Reply #90 "no matter what your status in society" and I specified the year as 820.

If you want to nit-pick I admit I did not cover the question of location - but I don't believe that matters either, no more than it does today.

...R
I did not. I was very careful to say, in Reply #90 "no matter what your status in society" and I specified the year as 820.

If you want to nit-pick I admit I did not cover the question of location - but I don't believe that matters either, no more than it does today.

...R
In Canada in 1928 the Supreme Court confirmed that when the law refered to a "person" it meant a male. One woman reacted "The iron dropped into the souls of women in Canada when we heard that it took a man to decree that his mother was not a person."

Canada was not the only legislature where "person" in legal acts only meant males. So in many places until recently 50% of the population were no doubt unhappy about being essentially chattels.

People don't revolt if they are happy;

Arab Spring
Chinese Cultural Revolution
Russian Revolution
French Revolution
English Peasants Revolt

They are certainly not happy when a quarter of them die from mass killings, malnutrition and poor medical care as in the Cambodian Genocide, or during the Irish Great Famine.

How about the Hundred Years War - that sounds happiness inducing.

In 9th Century China court eunuchs assasinated on Emperor. When they later elected another they murdered two rival contenders and their mothers - I doubt those families were happy.


In Baghdad  at the time Jews were wearing yellow badges.


Englishmen had an average height of just 5' 5" because of poor diet.




I would grant that hunter gatherer groups can be happy, because we can see that today. However life expectancy is only 21-37 years. Most, some 70%, die of disease, with 20% dying from accidents or violence and 10% from degenerative diseases.


At most times in most places people would have experienced brief periods of happiness but I doubt they felt "happy" in their day to day lives and certainly not to the levels we presently enjoy.





Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: ardly on Feb 10, 2020, 11:59 pm
Actually how about fleas, ticks, lice, nits, verrucas, athletes foot and a host of other problems?
Quick easy treatment today but you would have had to live with them then, admittedly for a short time,



Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 11, 2020, 10:23 am
They are certainly not happy when a quarter of them die from mass killings, malnutrition and poor medical care as in the Cambodian Genocide, or during the Irish Great Famine.

How about the Hundred Years War - that sounds happiness inducing.
The Cambodian genocide (and every genocide) is horrible. As was the Irish Famine - there is a very poignant sculpture at Dublin docks of starving people waiting for a boat. But these horrible things did not actually last very long in historical terms.

AFAIK the Hundred Years War was a long series of sporadic skirmishes. It certainly was not the equivalent of WW1 continuously for 100 years - all the principals would have been bankrupt.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 13, 2020, 06:11 am
maybe there wasn't more happiness, but there was certainly more sadness.'
You are picking an extreme example. Even so, I suspect the answer to your question is probably "yes".

To take a modern example, I can't imagine myself being happy if I had an artificial leg to replace one lost to a landmine. But people in that situation do seem to be happy.

Everyone always has ideas about what would make them happier. I think as we get older we realise that the extra happiness wears off as quickly as the new smell disappears from the new car.

...R
What makes you think one legged charlie is happy? Because he smiles as he asks you for a pound while you walkout of the local package store?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320388155_Prevalence_and_correlations_between_suicide_attempt_depression_substance_use_and_functionality_among_patients_with_limb_amputations


Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 13, 2020, 06:13 am
(also now facebook, google, and twitter are asking me if i am ok and what the suicide prevention numbers are. Amazon wants to let me know it offers same day delivery on rope and knot-tying books)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 13, 2020, 10:36 am
maybe there wasn't more happiness, but there was certainly more sadness.'
What makes you think one legged charlie is happy? Because he smiles as he asks you for a pound while you walkout of the local package store?
There ya go agin ... picking extreme examples.  I was not referring to a begging one legged man.

Neither have I been referring to specific individuals. In any group (rich or poor, now or in the 9th century) there will be happy and unhappy individuals. I just don't believe the proportion of happy to unhappy has improved over the past 12 centuries.

...R
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 13, 2020, 01:54 pm
Did you by chance peruse the link?

You are the one who brought up amputees, but, i guess your right, one leg is worth two arms at the amputee exchange, after all.. :)
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 13, 2020, 01:58 pm
If you agree that people are sad when family members die, and you agree that the infant mortality rate was higher in the past, then you agree that there were more families sad because their baby died and less families happy that their child lived. QED on a higher sadness/happiness ratio.



dang. You got me. All the amputees that are sad now would be dead in the 800s... can't be sad if you're dead.


To me, it seems in the 800s and prior, man created imaginary reasons to be happy. Now, we seem to have created reasons to be sad.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: PerryBebbington on Feb 13, 2020, 03:58 pm
If you agree that people are sad when family members die, and you agree that the infant mortality rate was higher in the past, then you agree that there were more families sad because their baby died and less families happy that their child lived. QED on a higher sadness/happiness ratio.
I think it used to be commonplace for infants to die, people had a lot of babies and expected that some would die. This was normal for them so they, I assume, accepted it. Now it is unusual, mostly babies make it to adulthood. When babies or young children die parents are very, very upset as this is now an unusual occurrence. In the past I think they'd just have accepted it and made another one.
Title: Re: Norway and Australia
Post by: Qdeathstar on Feb 13, 2020, 08:22 pm
I doubt it.