Arduino Forum

Community => Website and Forum => Topic started by: mastrolinux on Jan 23, 2020, 02:16 pm

Title: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: mastrolinux on Jan 23, 2020, 02:16 pm
Hi everyone,

it took a while to understand what happened. Our forum is reaching the technical limits of this really old PHP codebase and this website is not designed to scale. We would like to know if you as moderators are open to any other alternatives like Discourse or something similar. More modern platforms will allow us to scale easily.

As of now, this is what we did after the incident:



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 23, 2020, 04:14 pm
Our forum is reaching the technical limits of this really old PHP codebase and this website is not designed to scale.
If there is not an easy and seamless upgrade path that is essentially invisible to us users maybe it would be worth starting a completely new system using whatever new Forum software seems best. New Topics could only be created in the new system and after a few weeks the old system could be made "read-only".

That's obviously not as satisfactory as a seamless upgrade, but very few Forum Topics run for a long time. And the last time there was an upgrade it caused a lot of irritation and took a while to settle down.


May I also suggest that if you do choose new Forum software then just use it without any modification other than to apply Arduino colours and the Arduino Logo.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 23, 2020, 04:27 pm
Thanks for the update Luca.

Just had a quick look at the Discourse demo.
A lot looks slightly familiar to some of the things we see in here so that would shorten learning curves.

Some nicer features that have already caught my eye were the inline picture posting and better user name call out ability.

Some aspects look a little cluttered but I would suppose that can be tailored a little.
Colours for code is also a nice touch.

A lot of the current guides for forum usage etc. would need a good chunk of revision.


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 23, 2020, 04:39 pm
Link to the forum demo for Discourse (https://try.discourse.org/)

Just so people can see what Luca meant.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: wildbill on Jan 23, 2020, 05:11 pm
  • Resize our server

I was surprised to see that this wasn't "resize our servers".

Does the website software really constrain you to running it on a single box? What about the back end? If so, is it worth considering a migration to a cloud environment where you can scale up CPU and RAM dynamically with the ebb and flow of demand?

Looking at the stats at the bottom of the main page, it doesn't look as though usage is increasing, on the few times I've looked at it, ~3000 users sounds familiar and I see that the max was three years ago.

Is there anything else Cloudflare can do to fend off DOS attacks and the like?

If you're already cloud hosted and dynamic resource provisioning isn't solving your issues, then I guess it is time for a brand new forum as Robin2 suggests.

I also heartily agree with this:
Quote
May I also suggest that if you do choose new Forum software then just use it without any modification other than to apply Arduino colours and the Arduino Logo.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 23, 2020, 06:36 pm
Link to the forum demo for Discourse (https://try.discourse.org/)

Just so people can see what Luca meant.
It would be nice if the Arduino developmet team had a team page like this (https://www.discourse.org/team)

I enjoyed following the development of Stackoverflow in Jeff Attwood's and Joel Spolsky's blogs so the presence of Jeff in this project is comforting - though I have no idea how much (or how little) input he may have made.

However I was not at all impressed when I clicked this link
Quote
We have robust, tested converters (https://github.com/discourse/discourse/tree/master/script/import_scripts) for vBulletin, phpBB, Vanilla, bbPress, SMF,
.



I think the Arduino folks (with input from the Moderators) have to make the decision about what software to choose. It's not really a suitable thing for a large committee.

If there is a change to a new system we will all find it awkward and irritating for a while. It will be much easier to deal with that if there is STRONG support from the Arduino backroom boys.

My main requirement is that any new Forum software WILL NOT send me emails.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 23, 2020, 07:41 pm
I am a little leery of mods becoming too involved.
That side of things i think may need to be covered in the backroom.
The backend needs to be moderator friendly through all the different levels of mods (yes there are a few)

So long as moderator needs to be able to deal quickly and easily with mixed issues is covered without having to open multiple tabs or chase a moved item I would be happy.
Some simplicity would go a long way there. including a central moderator area to allow mods from other sections to input ideas (not currently possible or available)

Would like to see a migration of the posts so we dont have to start from scratch and can carry on where we may have left off. That would be a MUST for a lot of us I think. Otherwise it would be like buying a book with the last few pages missing then having to buy another copy to get to the end.

Then there would be the current post standings and rankings to address...
Doesn't sound much until you realise it does carry some weight with new people to be able to see that who they are dealing with has been around long enough to be able to offer valid advice.

Page formatting as it stands has quite a clean look and is easy to follow.
Some bells and whistles would be nice but I would implore them to K.I.S.S. and avoid too much eye candy.

Would also like to see what anyone else wants to bring to the table software wise.

Above all a suitable period of testing for whatever software is chosen on an isolated server with a good selection of people to wander around and break things so a transition / deployment would be smoother and most hiccups would have already been averted.
It would also gives the backroom teams a good grounding in the software and how to get to issues easily and deal with them having practiced ahead with live users so to speak.





Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Jan 23, 2020, 08:11 pm
What happened to Basecamp?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 23, 2020, 08:13 pm
What happened to Basecamp?
You mean the moderator section...its still there but it turns out most of the moderators dont have access... :smiley-eek:

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Jan 23, 2020, 08:17 pm
Why am I not surprised?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 23, 2020, 08:27 pm
To ask a moderator wide Q. you need to PM them all if you can gather up a complete list first.
And of course there are a few that are no longer members of the forums or dont even moderate the sections designated... ?!?!?!

You should come back and check it out  :smiley-twist:



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Jan 23, 2020, 08:43 pm
Well, when you put it like that...



Nah.



Nothing's changed.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 23, 2020, 09:02 pm
The backend needs to be moderator friendly though through all the different levels of mods (yes there are a few)
That's all I had in mind.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: larryd on Jan 24, 2020, 01:59 am
I hope these are not the cheapest options:  Discourse or something similar


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 24, 2020, 04:57 am
Cmon Larry ...  Masimo has deep pockets and short hands :D
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: larryd on Jan 24, 2020, 06:23 am
The thought went thru my mind that one should now hold off posting any work until this is finalized so the wheel does not have to be reinvented.


On the bright side, a thought has gone thru my mind! ;)






Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 24, 2020, 10:27 am
I hope these are not the cheapest options:  Discourse or something similar
I don't think this is an area where price is any guide to quality.

I do think an Open Source project like Arduino should, if at all possible, support other Open Source options.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Jan 24, 2020, 11:41 am
I too am wary of the Moderators becoming too involved with choosing a replacement system although I would like to be able to explain my requirements.

My main requirement is that all of the functions that I need should be easy and consistent to use.  Whist being a Mod gives me access to more functions on the current system many of them are clumsy to use or simply don't work as expected or in the way intended.

In addition to user functionality there is also the question of the facilities provided by the forum software itself such as an easy way to post code without it being interpreted as HTML.  Discourse supports the use of BBCode and hence code tags, which I have tested, but as the majority of first time posters don't use the easily accessible code tag icon now I hardly think that they will add code tags manually.  Can Discourse be set up to allow a code tag icon to be available or perhaps even to spot that a post contains keywords such as setup() and loop() and trigger a reminder to use code tags ?  Could it be set up to recognise foreign languages and check the forum section being posted in ?

As to the migration of the current database, I have mixed feelings.  To me the current range of forum sections is much too large.  Many were, I suspect, set up on a whim, used for a while and are now dormant.  I would support a clean break from the current forum which would be left in read only mode so that links to old posts could be posted for reference and/or copied to the new forum.  A message at logon directing users to the new forum would, of course, be handy.

A clean break would allow the forum sections to be reviewed and rationalised.  As has been pointed out, most topics have a relatively short "shelf life" and whilst the changeover would be traumatic it would surely be a good move as long as the new forum system can provide what we all need

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 24, 2020, 01:52 pm
Can Discourse be set up to allow a code tag icon to be available or perhaps even to spot that a post contains keywords such as setup() and loop() and trigger a reminder to use code tags ?  Could it be set up to recognise foreign languages and check the forum section being posted in ?
My understanding is that the present Forum software has been modified by the Arduino team so that it is no longer the same as what one would download from SMF. That is likely to make maintenance and upgrades a great deal more difficult.

If my understanding is correct then I am very concerned that the piece I have quoted might be interpreted by the Arduino team as encouragement to do the same sort of thing with Discourse. I really hope they can be discouraged and dissuaded and prevented from doing that. Use it as it comes, or not at all.

Applying features of Discourse that just require selecting a tick-box in something like a Preferences section is fine. However if a necessary feature cannot be implemented as simply as that then another product should be chosen.


Perhaps one of the Arduino backroom persons could be assigned to set up an Arduino-Demo version of Discourse as closely aligned to the present Arduino system as possible. Then any of us who is interested could have a look at it. Maybe it could even have limited login facilities. Such a system would be especially useful to allow Moderators to get a feel for it capabilities and limitations. A couple of backroom-person-days invested at this early stage could save a huge bundle of time later on.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Jan 24, 2020, 02:23 pm
Quote
Use it as it comes, or not at all.
Agreed wholeheartedly.  I was not my intention to encourage customisation beyond what is available with existing selectable options
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 24, 2020, 03:41 pm
UKHeliBob and Robin bring up a couple of quite relevant points that the backroom would need to answer.

How easy would it be to implement functions that are a little more specific to the Arduinosphere both now and in the future ? Code tags themselves being a prime example.

I do agree that some sections should be culled as thier usage is almost zero but I do think that most of the current selections should remain.

The user database also needs a major clean up probably along with a couple more databases PRIOR to any moves / migrations.

Still a proponent of clean easy lines for the display without all the gamification crud that I have seen so far in discourse....badges for this badges for that badges for everything. Also still a proponent of a decent migration which could use a test copy of the forum as its basis before going live.

There are many topics that suggest improvements to the forum and I wonder if they should be merged into this topic as they would seem to cover a few points already raised and more ?



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Jan 24, 2020, 04:13 pm
Quote
Code tags themselves being a prime example.
The Discourse preformatted text icon is </> and it works fine with code such as
Code: [Select]

byte anArray[4] = {1, 2, 3, 4};

void setup()
{
  Serial.begin(115200);
  while (!Serial);
  for (int i = 0; i < 4; i++)
  {
    Serial.println(anArray[i]);
  }
}

void loop()
{
}

without mangling it but I have not tested it exhaustively

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=659719.0;attach=343349)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 24, 2020, 04:40 pm
The demo section I saw had the coloured sections of code and looked pretty slick.
Much better than the current offering display wise.

As for copy, paste, select etc. I didn't get into that.




Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 24, 2020, 05:03 pm
Like the fact that the search is INTERNAL but I suspect it is also capable of more.

Has anyone else used this in normal use eg not testing or peeking for future arduino usage ?

Also noticed it has the ability to send a user to a set page after initial first time login.
I think there are a few ideas for that  :D  :smiley-grin:  :smiley-twist:

Been looking to see what the admin / moderator panel may be and so far it appears to cover what we would expect but with maybe a few side benefits.

Not seen much to see how they would initiate similar to the 100 post limit apart from passing all new posts through moderators. NOPE !
Hopefully that aspect could be sorted well before deployment.



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Jan 24, 2020, 05:12 pm
Quote
Been looking to see what the admin / moderator panel may be
How did you get to see this ?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 24, 2020, 05:31 pm
If I tell you I may have to kill you...  :smiley-lol:

There are some screen shots and info in these threads over there
 (https://meta.discourse.org/search?q=moderator)
Only looked at a few of the items so by no means versed in the subject.


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Jan 24, 2020, 05:36 pm
Thanks for the link
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Jan 24, 2020, 05:45 pm
OT: I keep reading this topic title as "Outrage", and am constantly disappointed.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: Robin2 on Jan 24, 2020, 06:59 pm
Bob, I hope you have PM'd @mastrolinux about the change of Title. We don't see him here often enough and this discussion is a complete waste of time unless he is following it closely.


Perhaps the Thread Title could be changed to something relevant such as "Thoughts on new Forum software"

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jan 24, 2020, 07:31 pm
Yes sorry about robin that I merged up instead of down.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: gregorss on Jan 24, 2020, 08:07 pm
Excuse me, sirs.

Do you really have to discuss any server-down-crap things in this thread?!

Gregor
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: pert on Jan 24, 2020, 08:27 pm
Excuse me, sirs.

Do you really have to discuss any server-down-crap things in this thread?!

Gregor

No, I see no reason for that. I have reverted the merge. Your "Why no news.arduino.cc?" topic is now separate again here:
https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=658938 (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=658938)

Let's just add links to other relevant threads instead of merging them. Otherwise it just makes this thread a mess.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: gregorss on Jan 24, 2020, 09:10 pm
... is now separate again here:
https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=658938 (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=658938)
Thanks a lot!

Gregor
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions.
Post by: Coding Badly on Jan 25, 2020, 07:45 am
What happened to Basecamp?
The last post was in 2014.  It's archived.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 05, 2020, 04:25 pm
I'm disappointed that there has been no response or update from @mastrolinux.

I don't expect the Arduino Team to implement all or any of my suggestions but it would be nice to think that comments do not disappear into a vacuum.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 05, 2020, 05:19 pm
Hi Robin.

There is a reason to the lack of response.
A change of software is and could never be an overnight thing and there are many things to take into consideration.

The last thing with a move this large is to jump in blindfold and hope for the best.
Pretty sure there are things afoot in the depths of Arduino and being patient with some of the things that happen back stage is something I have come to terms with.

Bob.

PS. sorry you missed out on the topic split. Almost certain I did leave a standard split msg up which lasts a week before it self destructs.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 05, 2020, 09:05 pm
There is a reason to the lack of response.
A change of software is and could never be an overnight thing and there are many things to take into consideration.
I do understand that. I certainly was not expecting an instant decision. I am just hoping that there might be a two-way conversation  leading up to the decision between the Arduino folks (in the guise of @mastrolinux) and us users. So far it has been very one-sided.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 06, 2020, 02:07 am
Luca Opened the door to our responses and so far they are very few really.

No other software suggestions.
Almost zero in what the users want (that's US btw.  :smiley-wink: )
So many intelligent people in herewith a keen interest in Arduino and the forum as a whole, that I expected this to become a much longer thread.

So really not much for anyone to get thier teeth into.
Considering we often complain when they ain't looking I seem to be getting the impression that very few care so long as things go on as normal.

And if things do get changed without our input then we only have ourselves to blame.
Of course there will be a major outcry when it is too late though.

Have and will continue to do my part with the means available to me.
I know a couple more may well have done the same but the wider involvement here is what would count.





Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 06, 2020, 09:46 am
Luca Opened the door to our responses and so far they are very few really.
In my experience a conversation works best when it is a two-way stream. One comment sparks a response. The response sparks another thought, maybe in a different direction. I know there are people who seem unable not to talk - just give them some silence and they seem to feel obliged to destroy it. But I'm not like that. If I find myself talking to someone who is not interested in responding then I. also, shut up.

Quote
No other software suggestions.
That's not fair. I think the general feeling was that we had no objection to Discourse if it could do the job - and please could the Arduino folks set up a demo that we could play with.

Quote
Almost zero in what the users want (that's US btw.  :smiley-wink: )
Let's see the demo of what the Forum would look like using Discourse and then we have something concrete to comment on.


BUT ... all of these are comments for @mastrolinux rather than for you. Why is he expecting you to do his work?

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 06, 2020, 02:27 pm
I dont think I am doing his work at all but did expect more input and discussion from users who like you have a keen interest in the future directions.
Those are the best discussions as they spark other ideas about what we would like.

Maybe not enough people get into this section ?
Maybe they should post it as a temporary sticky in every section to garner more interest ?



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 06, 2020, 04:00 pm
Maybe they should post it as a temporary sticky in every section to garner more interest ?

That may be a good idea.

Quote
did expect more input and discussion from users who like you have a keen interest in the future directions.
I will be happy to provide more input when @mastrolinux shows some interest in what has already been said. Without his input we are just a bunch of powerless people chatting about something none of us can do anything about. You hear those conversations on the bus every day - they are completely pointless and only suitable for Bar Sport.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 06, 2020, 06:35 pm
In the interest of being constructive I have had a quick read through all the earlier Posts in this Thread.

It seems to me the comments can be summarised like this


That seems to me a respectable response to the Original Post - though I agree it would have been nicer if more Forum users had commented. I don't see any alternative to assuming that silence = consent.

If @mastrolinux is hoping for additional input it would be useful to hear from him about the areas in which our input would be useful to him. Perhaps he has things in his mind that have not occurred to us.

...R

PS ... for all that @mastrolinux may be busy I do object always to have to refer to him in the third person rather than addressing him directly.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 07, 2020, 02:25 pm
@Robin

Just call him Luca.
Although there are a few Luca's behind the curtain  :)

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 07, 2020, 04:55 pm
Just call him Luca.
Whether I refer to him as Luca or @mastrolinux it will be in the third person (as now) until he decides to get directly involved in this Thread.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 10, 2020, 01:17 pm
One suggestion (prompted by a recent Thread) is to have far fewer Forum sections if there is to be a completely new system. It would greatly reduce the opportunity (so readily availed of) for newbies to post questions in the wrong place.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Feb 10, 2020, 02:36 pm
To repeat my view as expressed earlier in the topic
Quote
To me the current range of forum sections is much too large.  Many were, I suspect, set up on a whim, used for a while and are now dormant.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 16, 2020, 06:24 pm
Hopefully the new system will have better SPAM protection so the poor newbies will not be penalised with a 5 minute wait between posts.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 16, 2020, 06:32 pm
Hopefully the new system will have better SPAM protection so the poor newbies will not be penalised with a 5 minute wait between posts.

...R
Only after they sign the release form for "How to use the forum"   :smiley-twist:
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Feb 16, 2020, 06:49 pm
Hopefully the new system will have better SPAM protection so the poor newbies will not be penalised with a 5 minute wait between posts.

...R
I don't view it as "penalise the noobs", more as "protect the majority"
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 16, 2020, 08:43 pm
I don't view it as "penalise the noobs", more as "protect the majority"
I realize the intention is to provide protection but it does penalise the newbies. Few things can be more frustrating than taking the courage to post your first question, discover after you have posted it that you forgot to mention something, or made a silly typo, and then you can't amend it for 5 minutes. And if you get the correction wrong you have to wait another 5 minutes before you finally get it right. And even if you are the super-newbie who has read all the guidelines and you want to add an image and make it visible you still have the 5 minute wait between the post with the image attached and the opportunity to display the image in the Post.

I suspect if that malarkey had been in place when I joined the Forum I would have just given up. None of the other Forums I use has anything like it. There are some that needed a moderator approval for a first post - which is also discouraging, but easier to accept.

This 5 minute interval is a ridiculous constraint on legitimate newcomers - the very people we all want to encourage.

...R

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: pert on Feb 16, 2020, 08:47 pm
discover after you have posted it that you forgot to mention something, or made a silly typo, and then you can amend it for 5 minutes. And if you get the correction wrong you have to wait another 5 minutes before you finally get it right.
Ideally that should not be affected by a one post per 5 minutes restriction. I don't think there is any disagreement with allowing people to edit posts as frequently as they like.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 16, 2020, 10:43 pm
Ideally that should not be affected by a one post per 5 minutes restriction. I don't think there is any disagreement with allowing people to edit posts as frequently as they like.
I had not intended any discussion about this. I suspect we are all in agreement. I just posted Reply #46 so the matter would  not be forgotten about in any move to a new software system.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: mastrolinux on Feb 18, 2020, 04:59 pm
Hello,

yes, we do expect to keep a bare version, eventually even the SaaS one from some vendor like Discourse.

I do agree in having eventually this actual forum as read-only and start from scratch but if we see importing this whole forum in a subsection of the new one is feasible and works, then why not?

AFAIK Discourse has a very good SPAM detector system + we now have Cloudflare and can enable WAF to add even more protection Discourse trust levels (https://blog.discourse.org/2018/06/understanding-discourse-trust-levels/)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Feb 18, 2020, 05:02 pm
Quote
f we see importing this whole forum in a subsection of the new one is feasible and works,
If it does not jeopardise the project, then maybe, but unless it can be done with little or no effort then don't do it
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 18, 2020, 06:39 pm
If it does not jeopardise the project, then maybe, but unless it can be done with little or no effort then don't do it
Agree.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: mastrolinux on Feb 20, 2020, 09:26 am
Understood thanks! We will give the migration a try and then let you know. Please consider we do not have an ETA yet but would like to do it before the end of the year. Hopefully sooner.

Thanks a lot for your feedback and let me know if there is any specific feature you absolutely need as a moderator that are not included in Discourse.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Feb 20, 2020, 09:27 am
Is that end of calender year, or financial year?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 20, 2020, 09:39 am
Thanks a lot for your feedback and let me know if there is any specific feature you absolutely need as a moderator that are not included in Discourse.
Would it be possible to set up a demo like I suggested in Reply #18 ?

Quote
Perhaps one of the Arduino backroom persons could be assigned to set up an Arduino-Demo version of Discourse as closely aligned to the present Arduino system as possible. Then any of us who is interested could have a look at it. Maybe it could even have limited login facilities. Such a system would be especially useful to allow Moderators to get a feel for it capabilities and limitations. A couple of backroom-person-days invested at this early stage could save a huge bundle of time later on.
...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: lastchancename on Feb 24, 2020, 11:01 am
BTW, please keep it native in the browser...
Using an extra app, or having to repeatedly opt-out of the app is *really* unfriendly.

One feature that might be nice (mentioned a while ago), is to force/identify the member's locale/location/flag...
(Not automatically based on their system locale, because many punters don't set it..)
This helps if they're asking about something like selling, purchasing or collaboration - which makes it easier for helpers to give meaningful suggestions based on their locale.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 24, 2020, 01:22 pm
My own thoughts on the "locale" is that some members may not like the idea as a matter of privacy.
There have been a few posts about IP address privacy and people worried about that.

The current system where only moderators and the user can see that via an IP seems more robust.
Locale is available in the current system but is turned off IIRC.
There are placeholders for locale at the very least in this current forum.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=661642.0;attach=348080)

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 24, 2020, 03:10 pm
My own thoughts on the "locale" is that some members may not like the idea as a matter of privacy.
IIRC this Forum used to display info about a person's location based on data they entered into their Profile. That seems to me to deal with privacy issues as a person could leave the data blank.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: lastchancename on Feb 24, 2020, 09:58 pm
I'm not suggesting their bank, and street details, just a country - so specific advice can be more relevant.

It's no use suggesting I get a part at Fry's when I live in Australia.

Just adding to the thoughts.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 25, 2020, 01:55 pm
I understand what you and Robin are saying.

Just that some people are really very conscious of thier privacy and it is also something that Arduino themselves take quite seriously being based in the EU with some draconian EU privacy laws.

That can be a fine line that they need to tread in some jurisdictions.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 25, 2020, 02:40 pm
some draconian EU privacy laws
That needs to be replaced with "very welcome, but probably not strong enough"

Note, however, that my suggestion in Reply #60 leaves the decision about showing location (or not) entirely at the discretion of the member.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Feb 25, 2020, 02:51 pm
I agree that an "OPT IN" approach would be better Robin.
Certainly not an "opt-out" as I find that to assume too much in terms of privacy.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Feb 25, 2020, 05:51 pm
Certainly not an "opt-out" as I find that to assume too much in terms of privacy.
Agree 100%

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 02:02 pm
Given the seeming lack of interest in this topic by most (not all ) I dont think anyone would have a cause for complaint if Arduino just swapped the software lock stock and two smoking barrels.



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Mar 27, 2020, 02:08 pm
Quote
I dont think anyone would have a cause for complaint if Arduino just swapped the software lock stock and two smoking barrels.
They might not have cause for complaint but I bet that would not stop them complaining

There is, of course, a problem in that most members do not visit this section of the forum
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Mar 27, 2020, 02:14 pm
I think now may be the wrong time to make it a global topic but its a thought for when things calm down a bit.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Mar 27, 2020, 02:19 pm
There is, of course, a problem in that most members do not visit this section of the forum
That is compounded, IMHO, by the general lack of interaction with the Forum by the "backroom guys". Very few people will have come in contact with them, or even be aware of their existence.

I do hope, if the time comes when there is to be a significant change, that the "backroom guys" will give everyone a lot of advance notice. One way to do that would be to open up a new Forum section at the top of the first page where it can't be missed.

On the other hand, I assume changes will now not happen until after the coronavirus problems have ended.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Apr 01, 2020, 02:01 pm
I read this last night, having not noticed it before.

Some comments based on what I remember reading  :smiley-confuse: :

Personal data like home town, country etc. I don't see an issue with being asked this kind of thing provided two things are clear:
* Providing the information is voluntary
* If provided the information will be published on this site and the user consents to this.

I think the painful process for posting an image needs sorting out; I certainly didn't post images properly when I first got here, it was just one more thing to think about that I didn't want to be bothered with. Far too difficult.

New member should be automatically directed to the forum rules when they make their first post (first 5 posts?), just clicking 'accept' or 'next' or whatever it is a short time after going to the page should result in a reminder to read them. There should be a warning that failing to follow the instructions will result in unfriendly, unhelpful answers.

Automatic code detection with a warning to use code tags would be good, perhaps turning off after 100 posts.

Agree that any new site should be simple, I am not at all interested in fancy colours, things that flash, things that move around, pop-ups and all the other BXXXXX that people ruin web sites with. Have a look at Facebook, a perfect example of how to make an awful looking site.

Yes, revise the subject headings, some are used a lot, some hardly at all.

Probably include at the top of the forum menu page something like:
'Arduino forum for getting help from volunteers for your project or just to learn more about Arduino, programming and electronics'. (This could be added to the existing forum menu at the top. No where does it actually say what the forum is for, people are supposed to guess).


Also, there's another thing, if only I could think what it is...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Apr 01, 2020, 05:11 pm
I read Reply #70 before the word was replaced with XXXXXX and I agreed with the word that was there. I can also understand why such a word might be be excised as inappropriate for junior readers. However could I suggest that the XXXXXX be replaced with Bxxxxx so as to leave a hint for the adult readers.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Apr 07, 2020, 11:10 pm
I see that the banner at the top of every page has changed and has a new set of links
   profile    my plans    sign out    etc

It looks like they intend to stick with the existing Forum software.

...R

PS ... the text for the links is too big and they don't fit across the screen
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 07, 2020, 11:53 pm
The header is not really related to the "forum" so much as the "forum" is related to the "web site" which hosts the header  :smiley-razz:
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 08, 2020, 12:18 am
Didn't notice that bit.
Yep so still pooched.
Somebody should get thier bottom spanked for the bodge job.

(https://memeshappen.com/media/created/Good-morning-Do-you-need-a-spanking-meme-49791.jpg)

Whatever you do DONT look for "bottom spank gif"

I warned yas all !..

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Apr 09, 2020, 11:18 am
It seems that your corporal punishment has worked.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Apr 09, 2020, 11:22 am
I feel we are getting away from the main point of this discussion...  :smiley-confuse:
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Apr 09, 2020, 11:39 am
I feel we are getting away from the main point of this discussion...  :smiley-confuse:
Sort of thinking that given the lack of input, the world crisis, and some seemingly random stabs at upgrading some existing features this thread may have already reached its pinnacle.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Apr 09, 2020, 02:02 pm
and some seemingly random stabs at upgrading some existing features
Such a pity that the development team won't provide regular updates.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Apr 09, 2020, 09:30 pm
Quote
The world crisis
Indeed. I did think these fora would become busier with people stuck at home indulging more in their hobbies, it seems to be quieter.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Jun 18, 2020, 12:17 am
Indeed. I did think these fora would become busier with people stuck at home indulging more in their hobbies, it seems to be quieter.
About the same methinks but also the weather helps too.
Plenty people doing things outside at home and many DIY stores over here are currently showing shortages of power tools so I guess the hospital will be pretty busy  :smiley-eek-blue:

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Jun 18, 2020, 08:13 am
Plenty people doing things outside at home and many DIY stores over here are currently showing shortages of power tools so I guess the hospital will be pretty busy  :smiley-eek-blue:
LMAO!  :)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 15, 2020, 05:45 pm
It is some months now since the change to hosting the Forum with Discourse was last mentioned.

What is the state of progress on this project?

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 16, 2020, 02:11 pm
My opinion: This platform is great but not that efficient.

Well speaking of shifting to using another forum, I guess discord is already introduced...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 16, 2020, 02:29 pm
My opinion: This platform is great but not that efficient.

Well speaking of shifting to using another forum, I guess discord is already introduced...
Yet "discord" is not prime time and is missing many of the easier features we see in here such as a "read only no subscription required"

It was not "introduced" so much as just dropped from the sky with no announcements from those involved in it. They seem to have had it for a while yet most in here were unaware of it being an Arduino related item so clearly somebody dropped the ball there. Here we are in the "WEBSITE and FORUM" related section and not a single announcement from anyone concerned with the project.

It is based on gaming and not as a "forum" so lacks the structure needed to perform as a technical base.

The name itself was picked from a gaming stand point and bears no relationship to "discourse" which means what it says not the opposite.

I am unable to get in there due to a KNOWN issue that a moderator over there admitted to me.
That means I am not alone in being UNABLE to use it.

It is a social media site so again bears no real fruit as a technical support forum.

There have been some minor improvements / bug fixes happening for the MAIN forum that I mentioned elsewhere.

I would be pleased to get more detail from you in regards to what the MAIN forum is missing for efficiency or improvements / features we can ask for.

After all this is the section that is the lifeblood of technical support and community.




Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 16, 2020, 02:54 pm
Well speaking of shifting to using another forum, I guess discord is already introduced...
Be careful. DISCOURSE is a very different product to Discord.

This Forum is presently running on SMF and Discourse is an alternative and newer product which is expected to perform better than SMF.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 16, 2020, 03:16 pm
Thanks Robin.

Yes DISCOURSE (https://www.discourse.org/) is more in line with proper FORUM software and NOT a social media platform primarily for gamers that somebody wants to try use as a tech forum.

If discord was to be used then we would have expected to see those involved with it in this post making the case for it's adoption.
At least there would have been a chance for some suitable feedback, suggestions etc. which currently appears to have been done in total silence behind a closed door.

I have some Q. for both those platforms but at least with DISCOURSE I have an easy method to get those on thier forum which is also available in read only no sub required.

EDIT

Passed topic link for post #82 upstairs quite high.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 16, 2020, 04:45 pm
If discord was to be used
Please don't give that idea any air-time.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 16, 2020, 04:58 pm
Sorry Robin.

It should have been a rather LARGE IF...Ok danged YUUUGE

Still waiting for "IT" to be removed from the toolbar and put with social media where it truly belongs.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 17, 2020, 05:32 am
Still waiting for "IT" to be removed from the toolbar and put with social media where it truly belongs.

Please do that... :)

Though in discord I can see about 1,000 people online every time I check the Aduino server. Also this is the description for that server:

The official Arduino discord server for discussing and talking about all things Arduino related. Need help debugging or finding solutions to your code or hardware? Looking for ideas on a new project? Want feedback on the new project you've worked on? It's all here!

Looks like that should be the description for this forum...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 17, 2020, 05:36 am
Please do that... :)
Open an issue for it on github  :smiley-grin:

I will second it.

Robin may make a third.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 17, 2020, 05:39 am
Are you sarcastic or real? ( I don't understand these things in text ).
Anyway, check my edit in reply #89.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 17, 2020, 05:47 am
Appreciated the edit.

I am real so please use the github repo (https://github.com/arduino/forum-issues/issues) and open an issue it is also used for feature requests, bugs, enhancements, aesthetics,  etc.

Generally I don't kid around when it boils down to the community here in the proper forum.

Another BUG with discord is that if you clean your cache regular you have to continually go through a re-verification process with emails and all the associated extra steps

Again just how hard does somebody want to make it for users to even get there ?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 17, 2020, 05:57 am
I don't know if I've framed my sentences correctly... (https://github.com/arduino/forum-issues/issues/301)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 17, 2020, 06:24 am
Close enough  :smiley-grin:

Anyone know what this means on discord ?

Quote
Mod Mail is Coming Soon!
In the meantime, you can look for a moderator in <&556594862502182914>!

Have a bug to report or a feature to request? Contact a mod!•08/16/2020
Yep that's the EXACT message some sort of secret code to talk to a moderatore LOL
They seem to be trying to use some sort of link but failed utterly.

Or can I only contact a mod with a time machine going back to that date ? HG Wells time machine required.

OK after some jiggery pokery I made it into discord...

I take back all I said...Its worse than I thought  :smiley-lol:

Conversations seem to be a continuous roll of text with very little separation before you roll into the next topic without even knowing...scroll after scroll after scroll.

And talk about disjointed.



(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=661642.0;attach=382056)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 17, 2020, 09:26 am
Yep that's the EXACT message some sort of secret code to talk to a moderatore LOL
They seem to be trying to use some sort of link but failed utterly.

LOL
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 17, 2020, 10:19 am
And talk about disjointed.
Thanks for that snippet from Discord.

It makes the least intelligible of this Forum's Threads look very sensible and useful.


However as nobody on the Arduino Dev Team seems to use their own Forum it is probably not surprising that they are unaware of the difference between it and Discord.

Maybe the Arduino concept is now in long term decline.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 17, 2020, 11:45 am
No status on the project ( new forum ) yet either...

I've personal messaged Luca ( not like he's gonna be taking me seriously ).
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Sep 17, 2020, 12:11 pm
I've just tried to make 2 reports of spam, the first was OK, the second was blocked because I'd made the previous report a few seconds before. I suggest this limit is removed for people with 100+ posts.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 17, 2020, 12:27 pm
I've just tried to make 2 reports of spam, the first was OK, the second was blocked because I'd made the previous report a few seconds before. I suggest this limit is removed for people with 100+ posts.
I have to say I don't find that very irritating - waiting a few seconds is a lot more acceptable than 5 minutes. Nevertheless I support your proposal.

Some time ago I suggested there should be a special button or link specifically for reporting SPAM. It could sit alongside "Report to Moderator". It could be labelled "I think this Post is SPAM"

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 17, 2020, 01:51 pm
@ballscrewbob

Did you check out the issue we opened? They say it is not forum related...

I don't know if I've framed my sentences correctly... (https://github.com/arduino/forum-issues/issues/301)
This one...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 17, 2020, 02:03 pm
Asked that it be re-directed to the correct section.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 18, 2020, 07:01 pm
Some of you may have already noticed that locks are being placed on older posts greater than 120 days old.

This is deliberate and automatic and serves two functions.

First it stops noobs from NECRO posting to them.

Second it prevents them being used by spammers to hide thier activities.

Only the Original Owner of the thread or a Moderator can remove the lock.

If you notice anything odd about the feature please let me know.

Your tester was "PerryBebbington"


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 19, 2020, 06:12 am
Some of you may have already noticed that locks are being placed on older posts greater than 120 days old.

Yep I noticed...

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=661642.0;attach=382275)

Wait..I just attached the image to the post...I didn't make it show up. It showed up automatically..Is this intended? I think so! Great job by the way!
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Sep 19, 2020, 08:27 am
Quote
It showed up automatically..Is this intended?
Yes, another recent and welcome change
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 19, 2020, 10:27 am
Yes, another recent and welcome change
:)
Title: thread marking
Post by: jimmer on Sep 23, 2020, 01:40 pm
Is there a way, or should there be a way, to mark threads as no longer of interest to the OP ?

eg I asked some questions yesterday but I'm no longer interested in the answers. I don't want people spending time trying to help me but there isn't a message icon to say this.

I realise sometimes the answers may be of interest to others (but it's unlikely in my specific case)

As well as Not interested anymore,  a marker for I'm happy with the answer / problem solved ?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Sep 23, 2020, 01:50 pm
You can edit the original post's title to read "[SOLVED]", but that's no guarantee that you won't still receive replies.
You could ask a moderator to lock the topic.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 23, 2020, 01:57 pm
Normally the OP would edit the title of the very first post and put (SOLVED) if they were OK with what was said and found a solution.

If they didn't get an solution but fixed it anyway they would normally add thier solution as the last post and mark it (SOLVED)

There is also an option to unsubscribe from posts too but I  have never used it as being a moderator I would find it not so helpful.

You can also use the "REPORT TO MODERATOR" option and ask us to LOCK a thread but if it is quite active we may initially decline. We will however asses the request regardless.

EDIT
Wot AWOL said LOL

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Sep 23, 2020, 02:29 pm
jimmer,
++Karma; // For asking about this and thinking it is important.

Normally the OP would edit the title of the very first post and put (SOLVED) if they were OK with what was said and found a solution.
Bob is being unduly optimistic with the use of the word normally, I suggest hopefully or occasionally or ideally would be more accurate.

Yes, those of us who answer questions appreciate it when the OP gives up an update, thanks us, tells us the problem us solved or whatever and maybe gives karma to all concerned. Unfortunately this doesn't happen anything like often enough.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Sep 23, 2020, 02:43 pm
Quote
As well as Not interested anymore,  a marker for I'm happy with the answer / problem solved ?
How about just posting to the thread and saying so, which you did ?
Low tech, no development or changes required and easily understood by anyone reading the thread. 

Members reading the thread can decide whether or not to contribute
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 23, 2020, 04:15 pm
eg I asked some questions yesterday but I'm no longer interested in the answers. I don't want people spending time trying to help me but there isn't a message icon to say this.

I realise sometimes the answers may be of interest to others (but it's unlikely in my specific case)
Others have explained how to mark a Thread as [solved].

Apart from that I think the Thread should not be locked and other people should be allowed to exercise there own judgement about whether to waste use their time adding to it. As you say, it may be of interest to other Forum readers.

The exception I would make is where a Thread is written as a Tutorial. IMHO those Threads should be locked to avoid a long discussion from distracting from the lesson in the Tutorial.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 23, 2020, 04:25 pm
The exception I would make is where a Thread is written as a Tutorial. IMHO those Threads should be locked to avoid a long discussion from distracting from the lesson in the Tutorial.

...R
IMHO tutorials should be initially left open to garner anything that the OP may have missed.
Omissions / errata should be catered for by dialog.

They will AUTO-LOCK after 120 days anyway with the recent implementation of that feature.



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: UKHeliBob on Sep 23, 2020, 05:01 pm
Quote
IMHO tutorials should be initially left open to garner anything that the OP may have missed.
Omissions / errata should be catered for by dialog.
The problem with allowing comments in tutorial threads is that it dilutes and detracts from the content which may put future readers off of reading the whole topic.  That is not a problem if the whole tutorial fits in one post (unlikely) or if each of the chapters of it are put in separate posts all at once.

Using the one chapter per post approach as I (and Robin) have done means that readers can take things at their own pace without intervening posts commenting on examples etc disrupting the flow of the tutorial, but it does make adding more to the tutorial once comments have been made more complicated.

However, locking the tutorial also has its problems.  When I wrote the "Using millis() for timing.  A beginners guide" tutorial it was locked by a mod without reference to me, which I was happy with until I got a couple of PMs pointing out an error in my examples which, not being a mod at the time I could not correct.  I did not think it fair to ask a mod to unlock the topic for a short time to let me edit it as I could foresee problems in getting the timing right and didn't want to impose, so I left it and only corrected the error when I became a mod.

A possible improvement would be to allow a topic starter to edit their own posts in a locked topic and to add to the topic and for them to create a separate topic for comments on the tutorial with a link to it in the tutorial

Having said that, nothing can make people read the tutorials (or the sticky topics) as we all know so well.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 23, 2020, 05:19 pm
The OP can also ask for some posts to be deleted if they interrupt the flow for a 2 or more part post.

Or as has been done in the past reserve a few for future edits / additions.

I think it is more down to the OP than just arbitrarily locking things down which may in turn lead to more moderator requests or unwanted PM's to the OP.



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: rising_youngstars on Sep 23, 2020, 06:25 pm
There should be a feature where the creator of a thread can lock their own posts
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 23, 2020, 06:35 pm
There should be a feature where the creator of a thread can lock their own posts
That would be an OK feature but I suspect it may come in for some abuse on occasion.
Like so may you tube channels that remove comment ability.
Or where a section of help tutorial may have a serious safety flaw.

There needs to be at least some peer review ability but preferably without involving extra moderation.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 23, 2020, 06:40 pm
True. Moderators should be able to review the thread before locking it...

Or better an extra button near the 'report to moderator' like 'Ask moderators to lock thread' or something like that. Just an idea. Not to be taken too seriously  :D
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 23, 2020, 06:44 pm
There should be a feature where the creator of a thread can lock their own posts
I don't like that idea. Although the creator may think a Thread is finished others may have a different view.  Most Threads are started by someone with a question about his own project and one easy way to repay the effort that goes into providing the answers is to make the OP's experience (i.e. problem and solution) available for others and for others to be able to extend the scope.

For the very Threads that need to be locked it does not seem too onerous to ask the Moderators to do the necessary. And I have to add that on the occasions when I have needed to edit a locked Tutorial the Moderators have responded very quickly to my request to unlock and later re-lock the Thread.

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: CrossRoads on Sep 23, 2020, 07:47 pm
 A big part of the Autolock is prevent spammers from posting to old threads.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 23, 2020, 07:49 pm
True. Moderators should be able to review the thread before locking it...

Or better an extra button near the 'report to moderator' like 'Ask moderators to lock thread' or something like that. Just an idea. Not to be taken too seriously  :D
It goes above moderator review as we tend to have skills in areas that may be below or alternate the topic we are supposed to review.

And I don't see the need for an extra button when there is one already available for all members to use.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 23, 2020, 07:50 pm
A big part of the Autolock is prevent spammers from posting to old threads.
That aspect was sort of a side benefit albeit a darned good one !
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 23, 2020, 11:54 pm
Soooo I visited ADAFRUITS discord server and there you cannot post until you have actually waited 10 whole minutes.

I sort of find that appealing and am now torn between the following

A single time 1 shot re-direct to the readme (newer version (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=705725.0)) with a click at the end to gain access to the forums ?

A single time one shot as above but with a wait time and automatic re-direction to the forums ?

Clearly I would not be posting this unless I thought your input was not as valid as my own.
It would certainly slow down spammers who would often resort to other targets of interest away from the Arduino forums.

Remember there are no crazy ideas...well except the electro shock therapy for offenders of the forum as health and safety wont let us do that. Oh and there was that other idea but lethal force wasn't allowed either.




Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Sep 23, 2020, 11:59 pm
Remember there are no crazy ideas...well except the electro shock therapy for offenders of the forum as health and safety wont let us do that
So you don't want the electric shock machine I built when I was 10?  >:(
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 24, 2020, 12:01 am
So you don't want the electric shock machine I built when I was 10?  >:(
Nah it needs to be upgraded and sent on the QT Plain brown wrapper preferred  ;)

Oh and don't put candles in the same package its a nightmare trying to explain what it really is to those gentlemen with the guns

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: rising_youngstars on Sep 24, 2020, 05:06 am
Just reading all the posts from page 1 - 9, can't you contact the forum owner Nick Gammon? + he's not around here these days
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: pert on Sep 24, 2020, 05:12 am
Just reading all the posts from page 1 - 9, can't you contact the forum owner Nick Gammon? + he's not around here these days
Nick Gammon is not, nor has ever been, the owner of this forum. Nick Gammon is a forum member and volunteer moderator.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Sep 24, 2020, 10:44 am
A single time one shot as above but with a wait time and automatic re-direction to the forums ?
I would certainly favour a one-time wait for a new sign-up in preference to 100 five minute waits.

Of course, if a single 10 minute wait would be effective why not reduce the 100 to two or five?

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 24, 2020, 01:59 pm
Of course, if a single 10 minute wait would be effective why not reduce the 100 to two or five?

I would suggest 50...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 24, 2020, 02:01 pm
Thanks Robin I hadn't really considered the 5 minute waits.

I would agree in reducing the 100 to a much lower number in conjunction to the initial wait during re-direct.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: wildbill on Sep 24, 2020, 02:18 pm
Ten waits would probably be ample to discourage spammers.

I wonder though if a slightly higher number has some value in that it encourages newcomers to think about their issue rather than rushing back to the forum as each idea occurs to them.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 24, 2020, 02:21 pm
Sort of thinking a 5 minute readme wait and  around 5 to 20 normal waits Bill.

Maybe with the last wait also being a re-direct to a readme to push the point home.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Sep 24, 2020, 02:37 pm
Is there any scope for making it clear that not following the guidelines results in unfriendly, unhelpful answers, while following them is likely to result in friendly, helpful answers?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 24, 2020, 02:45 pm
Is there any scope for making it clear that not following the guidelines results in unfriendly, unhelpful answers, while following them is likely to result in friendly, helpful answers?
Going to use the newer guidelines you prepared Perry as the basis template for the readme so that covers almost all of that aspect.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Sep 24, 2020, 02:48 pm
:-)

There's some tidying up needed then because of the references to the old guidelines, which might themselves need tidying up.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 24, 2020, 02:56 pm
The old guidelines have a few staunch supporters but I believe its about time they were allowed to retire gracefully.

So I am open to suggestions yes, no, maybe, but ?



Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Sep 24, 2020, 02:58 pm
I think the old guidelines are good but need to be reviewed. I think Nick Gammon must have put a lot of work into them because he did a really good job. I need to think about this.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 24, 2020, 03:18 pm
I am sure he did and i think we have come a long way.

Any revisions of his hard work need to be quite concise and maybe condensed similar to yours.
And of course reflect thier origins in Nick.

It is the reason I have not made any changes to his work myself and still refer to it commonly in other areas.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Sep 24, 2020, 05:00 pm
Why is Nick Gammon not active anymore on the forum?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Sep 24, 2020, 05:07 pm
Burn-out.
It's a side-effect of being a mod here.

Here's (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=286322.msg4697141#msg4697141) a recent post.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Sep 24, 2020, 05:40 pm
Burn-out.
Since you resigned as a mod I've been amazed at how many posts you've made! You don't seem to be burnt out at all!!!!
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 24, 2020, 05:43 pm
Since you resigned as a mod I've been amazed at how many posts you've made! You don't seem to be burnt out at all!!!!
It has given him a new line of release though.
Sort of scares me sometimes and rolling on the floor the rest.

 :smiley-lol:

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL on Sep 24, 2020, 05:46 pm
Quote
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long and you have burned so very brightly
Eldon Tyrell
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: roches on Sep 30, 2020, 03:39 am
Hi all. I want to add a quick comment about the forum design that will hopefully be seen by some of the right people without worrying about the optimal place to put it, about whether there's already a thread, etc. It's about the message asking people to set up 2-step verification, and it says that if you set up 2-step verification, a hacker won't be able to get into your account even if "he" has your password.

The open-source community, I think, is an inclusive one, and 2-step verification will stop any intruder who has the password, unless he, she, they, or <intruder's pronoun> got that one-time code, right? I can't see the actual text because I guess the prompt only comes up every so often, but it is probably possible to simply remove the pronoun. For example, "even if he has the password" might become "even with the password". I'm not trying to insist on a change or object strongly; the idea is to keep the focus on security by avoiding any inadvertent implication about hackers being male.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Sep 30, 2020, 03:47 am
@roches  (Andrea ?)

The correct place for the request would be github. (https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues)

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 07, 2020, 11:10 am
A suggestion.

If a new person was to sign up on the forum, instead of taking them here (https://forum.arduino.cc) after they complete all the registration steps, won't it be more suitable to take them here (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=148850.0) or here (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=705698.msg4757829#new) if you wish, before they post?

Should this be taken up on Github? Cause I am also getting confused when to post on Github or when to post in this board...The title says '...Suggestions and feature requests' so I think it is suitable to post here...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 07, 2020, 01:53 pm
A suggestion.

If a new person was to sign up on the forum, instead of taking them here (https://forum.arduino.cc) after they complete all the registration steps, won't it be more suitable to take them here (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=148850.0) or here (https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=705698.msg4757829#new) if you wish, before they post?

Should this be taken up on Github? Cause I am also getting confused when to post on Github or when to post in this board...The title says '...Suggestions and feature requests' so I think it is suitable to post here...
You suggestion is already on github (https://github.com/arduino/forum-issues/issues/287) and has been discussed extensively in here too besides being on my list for a long time.


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 07, 2020, 06:24 pm
Oh cool...Didn't notice that :D
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: wildbill on Oct 08, 2020, 04:56 pm
The new floating help button is rather irritating and doesn't work well on my iPad. It overlays the content that I'm trying to read. Sometimes I can scroll away so it disappears, sometimes it redraws itself.

On my Mac it at least lives in the right margin, so it doesn't obscure anything, but having chase around as I scroll is an annoyance.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Oct 08, 2020, 05:32 pm
I HATE the floating help button!

I hate anything like that. What a button like that says is "We know that this is the single most important thing on the page, we don't care if you don't want it or need it we are going to place it right where you can't miss it because we know better then you do what you want"

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Please, get rid of it!
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Oct 08, 2020, 05:45 pm
Please, get rid of it!
+1


And what is its purpose?  The sort of help I need won't come from this Forum!

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 08, 2020, 06:30 pm
ZERO to do with me !

LMAO but you all know where to post your angst is really in github. (https://github.com/arduino/forum-issues/issues)

(https://www.animefuntv.com/wp-content/uploads/Animal-drumroll.gif)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: larryd on Oct 08, 2020, 06:59 pm
I HATE the floating help button!

I hate anything like that. What a button like that says is "We know that this is the single most important thing on the page, we don't care if you don't want it or need it we are going to place it right where you can't miss it because we know better then you do what you want"

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Please, get rid of it!
Junk on mount Everest:











(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=661642.0;attach=384667)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Oct 08, 2020, 07:16 pm
Junk on mount Everest
I don't see a floating help button amongst that lot!!!
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: larryd on Oct 08, 2020, 07:29 pm
.

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=661642.0;attach=384669)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Oct 08, 2020, 08:05 pm
LMAO!!!
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Oct 08, 2020, 08:49 pm
ZERO to do with me !
I accept that.

However you seem to be the only point of human contact that we have with the Arduino Dev Team so perhaps you can pass on our irritation with this "feature"

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 08, 2020, 08:51 pm
I accept that.

However you seem to be the only point of human contact that we have with the Arduino Dev Team.

...R
I did pass the concerns along with a small suggestion to the correct person.
No idea what may happen though.

Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: Robin2 on Oct 08, 2020, 09:35 pm
I did pass the concerns along with a small suggestion to the correct person.
Much appreciated.

It gets more annoying every time I come back to the Forum

...R
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 08, 2020, 10:03 pm
Hey Larry you have too much time on your hands and a warped sense of humour !
Wanna be a moderator ?

Oh wait you are not called Bob....Change your name and we are golden.




Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: larryd on Oct 09, 2020, 05:33 am
I think you need two robin as a moderator.






Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 09, 2020, 05:40 am
I think you need two robin as a moderator.


LOL he wont even play test moderator so a real one is a No-Go.
I mean did you even think about what you said or just looking to pull the tigers tail  :smiley-lol:


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: larryd on Oct 09, 2020, 06:06 am
The sidelines are a comfortable place to be these days.




Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 09, 2020, 07:22 am
So I'm asking for a "Feature Request'...A Korean board?
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Oct 09, 2020, 07:49 am
So I'm asking for a "Feature Request'...A Korean board?
Are you Korean? Your English is very good. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but if you posted in Korean all the people who help you now would not help you as they probably don't know Korean. I don't know how many if any Korean speakers there are here.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 09, 2020, 09:52 am
Are you Korean? Your English is very good. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but if you posted in Korean all the people who help you now would not help you as they probably don't know Korean. I don't know how many if any Korean speakers there are here.
I'm sorry Perry you got me wrong...I'm American :D
I'm requesting for this feature because over the course of the past 2 weeks I saw many Korean peeps post and I thought they could me more comfortable if they posted in their own language...

Don't ask my age though  ;D
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: PerryBebbington on Oct 09, 2020, 09:59 am
I'm sorry Perry you got me wrong...I'm American :D
I'm requesting for this feature because over the course of the past 2 weeks I saw many Korean peeps post and I thought they could me more comfortable if they posted in their own language...

Don't ask my age though  ;D
I was actually surprised when you asked for a Korean forum because I assumed that you were a native English speaker.

As for your age I won't ask that, but how old will you be in 2030? :)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 09, 2020, 04:30 pm
I was actually surprised when you asked for a Korean forum because I assumed that you were a native English speaker.
Actually I am...Check out reply #165...Oh you did LOL...

As for your age I won't ask that, but how old will you be in 2030? :)
Take a guess :smiley-twist:
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 09, 2020, 04:39 pm
Many of the Korean posts also tend to be SPAM.
having other languages would be a useful feature but it is finding suitable and reliable long term moderators for those sections that tends to be a larger issue.

There have been open calls for mods in the past that went almost entirely un-answered.
It takes a quite special skill set to be one and the burn out factor can be another problem.


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 09, 2020, 04:55 pm
Well I knew nothing about what what you just said and now I shall accept that it is not wise to have a Korean board...Well that's without a mod :)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 16, 2020, 03:01 pm
Well why do we have these? Everything's been deleted here...
(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=661642.0;attach=385627)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 18, 2020, 05:41 pm
@TheUNOGuy

Did you even open those areas and dig deeper before presenting us with that last post ?



(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=661642.0;attach=385943)
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 19, 2020, 04:00 am
I couldn't as when I opened any of them, it kicks me back to the forum home page...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 19, 2020, 04:36 am
Odd works OK here.
Maybe you have a browser add on that is not playings nice ?


Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 19, 2020, 04:46 am
My browser add ons: McAfee, DuckDuckGo, FireFox Container tabs...I don't know if my add-ons are the culprit...I would like to hear from other people if the boards work for them...
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: pert on Oct 19, 2020, 05:04 am
Works fine for me, even if I log out of my account. Try it from a private window to eliminate the extensions (File > New Private Window).
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: ballscrewbob on Oct 19, 2020, 05:09 am
Mcafee says enough to me to be wary of it as a probable cause.
Title: Re: Forum software open discussion and suggestions feature requests.
Post by: TheUNOGuy on Oct 19, 2020, 06:14 am
Alright it's fixed. I don't know how it worked but when I logged out of my account and tried to access those boards it worked! So then I logged in again and tried and to my surprise it opened and I could see the sub-boards!  :D