Arduino Forum

Using Arduino => General Electronics => Topic started by: TobiasRipper on Apr 19, 2019, 12:43 am

Title: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: TobiasRipper on Apr 19, 2019, 12:43 am
Good day and thank you for clicking on the question. Right off the bat I'd like to let you know that I'm fully aware of dangers of electrocution that improper circuit design for this sort of a project may lead to. I would also like to ask that you can hear me out.

I made a video game... it's a fun game, very challenging, you tend to die a lot. I want to introduce a bit of extra incentive to survive in the game by zapping the player every time he dies. This is only for my own use and will only be used to make an entertainment video for promoting the video game. This is not for commercial use. The data is being transfered to an arduino over usb serial. That much is already done.

So all I'm talking about is something along the lines of one of those prank shockers (https://www.google.ca/search?q=prank+shocker&client=opera&hs=ljI&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi675mo2trhAhWmtlkKHXI3BzQQ_AUICygC&biw=1200&bih=923&dpr=1) or perhaps something simmilar to this party game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsiq8wb-Qvc)

I can certainly get myself a few coils, capacitors and resistors and small transformers and start experimenting but I think having someone knowledgeable advise me on things I should be watching out for would go a long way than me going at it by myself.

One thing I can tell for sure is that this thing would have to be battery powered for safety reasons.
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: DVDdoug on Apr 19, 2019, 01:21 am
I getting cautious in my old age...  I don't know if these things are ever "safe".  You never know if someone has an undiagnosed (or undisclosed) heart condition or epilepsy or something like that...

Quote
One thing I can tell for sure is that this thing would have to be battery powered for safety reasons.
Police tasers operate off of small batteries and once in awhile someone dies.   Of course, your little circuit isn't supposed to as strong as a taser, but...

The regulations in most countries require anything over 50V to be insulated or enclosed so nobody can touch it.  And, you usually can't feel 50V, although you can "feel" a 9V battery if you touch it to your tongue.

Here (https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/physics/p616/safety/fatal_current.html[/quote) is something I found about electrical safety.

Those things are usually more than 1000V with limited current (so the voltage drops with a low resistance load).   If you understand how an inductor works, it's not that hard to limit the current by limiting the amount of current that you "charge" the inductor with.   
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: wvmarle on Apr 19, 2019, 07:18 am
Electric fences that are used to keep cattle out (or in) tend to work at voltages like 10-20kV, give you a good shock, but are basically considered safe to humans due to the very low current they can produce. One of such devices may be a suitable starting point. They're kept safe by limiting both the maximum current and the duration of the shock.

Another thing to consider is the current path. Hand to hand through the chest is one of the most dangerous routes, as it goes through the heart. Leg to leg is much safer.

Other devices that are designed to deliver safe electric stimulation (as safe as it can ever be, of course) can be found in the sex shops. Such electrical sex toys are generally advised to be used below the mid riff only. Nipple to nipple while obviously attractive is a risky idea, as the heart is right in between.

One thing I would NEVER do is attempt to build such a device myself. A minor mistake and your party gag turns deadly. You would also need very good testing equipment to make sure the currents and shock duration are what you expect.
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: srnet on Apr 19, 2019, 09:29 am
"Sure Its safe, I found the instructions on the Internet"
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: hammy on Apr 19, 2019, 03:02 pm
Agree - don't do it
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: Paul__B on Apr 19, 2019, 04:20 pm
Police tasers operate off of small batteries and once in awhile someone dies.
Generally as a result of the load of drugs in their system, or other things used besides the taser.  :smiley-roll:

Electric fences that are used to keep cattle out (or in) tend to work at voltages like 10-20kV, give you a good shock, but are basically considered safe to humans due to the very low current they can produce. One of such devices may be a suitable starting point. They're kept safe by limiting both the maximum current and the duration of the shock.
And when you say "duration", the frequency of the impulses is important.  They allow sufficient time between impulses for you to let go and move away.

Other devices that are designed to deliver safe electric stimulation (as safe as it can ever be, of course) can be found in the sex shops. Such electrical sex toys are generally advised to be used below the mid riff only. Nipple to nipple while obviously attractive is a risky idea, as the heart is right in between.
Can't say I would have naturally thought of that as a source of such equipment ... :smiley-eek:

One thing I would NEVER do is attempt to build such a device myself. A minor mistake and your party gag turns deadly. You would also need very good testing equipment to make sure the currents and shock duration are what you expect.
Or more accurately, advise a beginner to do so.

Hey, we had great fun back at school.  :smiley-lol:
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: Geek Emeritus on Apr 19, 2019, 05:42 pm
I have a defibrillator implanted. zap me and you risk damage to my obscenely expensive implant. I will express robust displeasure, vigorously.

this is not merely no. this is stop what you are doing and rethink your life no.
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: vertigon on Apr 19, 2019, 07:35 pm
I have a defibrillator implanted. zap me and you risk damage to my obscenely expensive implant. I will express robust displeasure, vigorously.
he did say it was for his own personal exclusive use. that said i do not advise doing this, and if you do i would not allow ANYONE else to touch any part of it, even if they knew fully what it was.

my suggestion, is not to build your own anything. i would get one of those prank shock things and take it apart, rewire it. dont reinvent the wheel, if theres an off the shelf solution available, use it.


Police tasers operate off of small batteries and once in awhile someone dies.   Of course, your little circuit isn't supposed to as strong as a taser, but...   
early models ran off of regular 9v, now theyve got a proprietary rechargable thing
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: MarkT on Apr 20, 2019, 12:03 am
A lot depends where the current flows.  From thumb to finger of the same hand, it could hurt, but you'll live.  From one hand to the other, through the chest, all bets are off as current reaches the heart muscle.

I recall I've seen a shocker game which had two electrodes close together that you placed your
thumb on - insulated plastic toy, no chance of current to ground, contacts close together in a groove,
clearly to make it hard to place your vital organs in circuit.   Seems to me this is a way to avoid any
risk of affecting the heart.
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: Paul__B on Apr 20, 2019, 01:07 am
I have a defibrillator implanted. zap me and you risk damage to my obscenely expensive implant. I will express robust displeasure, vigorously.
Actually, it would be extremely difficult to damage a defibrillator.  The reason should be obvious.

Some years ago I was threatened with one.  The alternative - fish oil - appeared to work.  Part of the threat was that I would not be able to practice (or indeed, learn) arc welding.  That was not however a suggestion of risk to the defibrillator itself.

early models ran off of regular 9v, now they've got a proprietary rechargeable thing
Wouldn't want it to fail at the wrong time.  :smiley-eek:
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: Thee_Captain on Apr 20, 2019, 03:05 am
For one dollar you can get one of these (https://www.robotshop.com/ca/en/2mm-mini-vibrating-disk-motor.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6JnJz7zd4QIVBYbICh3eKgAvEAQYAyABEgJfEPD_BwE). Just like the old handshake party zappers.
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: JohnRob on Apr 20, 2019, 03:49 am
Quote
.......... but I think having someone knowledgeable advise me on things I should be watching out for would go a long way than me going at it by myself.
I don't mean to disrespect anyone in this forum but I'll guess the folks here do not have practical experience to guide you to a positively safe solution (if there is one).


And I think this is one of those ideas that sound good when you say them but should not be pursued.


If you look at TENS devices, you will find they are touted to be safe, however their application (physically on the body) is restricted to certain areas away from the heart.  "Proper" use of a party zapper is suspect especially when alcohol is likely to be involved.

IMHO
Title: Re: How to build a safe shocker/party zapper?
Post by: Southpark on Apr 20, 2019, 05:53 am
This is like the game called Domination in James Bond, right? Never Say Never Again.