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Topic: Electric Shock Machine!  (Read 9176 times) previous topic - next topic

aphasia

Okay, so now that I've gotten your attention... I've read a bunch of posts, differing topics and ideas, on this forum and on others-- and nobody wants to touch this subject with a 10-foot pole. 

I understand the legal and ethical dangers of advice in this area, and that there are major safety concerns.

It is BECAUSE of these concerns that I am seeking the advice of those much smarter than I. :) So understand that I have all of these thoughts at the forefront of my mind when asking for help on this.

I am looking for assistance in using an Arduino to safely create an electric shock against the skin.  There are many different applications (perhaps I'm masochistic in pursuing this, if so, whatever). 

For example, I once played a video game at an arcade based on Uncle Fester from the Munsters.  You had to hang on to two metal posts with your hands while a meter slowly lit up on the machine... the backdrop of the machine was a picture of Uncle Fester, and when the meter got to the top the lightbulb in his mouth lit up... all the while an electric shock in the two posts got stronger and stronger, uncomfortably so but not exactly painful.  The idea was to hold on as long as you could.
 
or...

TENS units for pain control.  I'm sure people are familiar with these.  I live with someone who suffers from chronic pain and we've tried the standard TENS units before to no effect... however a programmable one might be just the key, as the single constant effect hers had was more irritating that helpful.  She has often said one that pulsed or changed up some would have been better.  Plus, making one myself is a lot cheaper than buying these units. 

Most of the threads I've read revolved heavily around "why do you want to do this" and "if someone has a pacemaker or a heart condition..." etc.  So I want to be absolutely clear that I do not intend to do anything to anybody without their full and informed consent -- and likely, my experimentation is going to likely be just for myself. 

I am asking for help so that I don't hurt MYSELF. :) Much. Anyway. And I think also that IF other people are looking for answers to similar questions we (as a community) might actually be doing more harm than good by being so vague about the answers.  I've seen some REALLY sketchy ideas out there for ways to shock someone, and people ARE going to get hurt if they mess around without better knowledge... and just warning people not to mess around is about as effective as telling teenagers to just not have sex, instead of teaching them how to do it safely.

SO

Can anyone help?  I own an Arduino UNO and I understand that a TENS unit is basically a square wave generator... and I understand that the TONE function basically creates a square wave.  Can this be easily and safely scaled up? 

And how does this differ than a "shocking" sensation... or doesn't it?  Is it just a matter of voltage as to how "unpleasant" the feeling is? 

All comments welcome of course.  Please help!

larryd

I believe TENs is a voltage at ~ 80VDC.
Do you have access to a commercial unit to measure the frequencies evolved?
A very important part of TENs is the electrodes.
STIMCARE are self-adhesive electrodes, carbon FM electrodes are often used.

All that said, buy a unit that is certified.
No technical PMs.
The last thing you did is where you should start looking.

Greensprings


Delta_G

The problem isn't that I have some moral objection to helping you shock someone.  I really don't.  The problem is one of liability. If I help you build this and someone gets hurt, even unintentionally, it could end up coming back on me.  That's not a risk I'm willing to take without significant financial compensation.  Nobody wants to take on liability for free.  That would be incredibly stupid.
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Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

DVDdoug

#4
Apr 29, 2015, 02:52 am Last Edit: Apr 29, 2015, 02:57 am by DVDdoug
The OSHA website has some information about the effects of current on the human body (from a slight tingle to death).

I found one online source that says a taser is ~150mA.   Usually it's not lethal (and usually the current doesn't pass through the heart) but a few people have died.  (It's still safer than the .38 or .45 caliber alternative. ;) )

You need to control the current.   It's the current that you feel and it's the current that kills you.     As I different current levels.   It does depend on the current path through your body...  One amp between your thumb and finger probably won't kill you, but one amp from one hand to the other through your chest probably will kill you.

As I assume you know,  the relationship between voltage, current, and resistance is described by Ohm's Law.   Since the resistance of human skin is highly-variable your circuit needs current limiting, not just voltage control/regulation.

Quote
For example, I once played a video game at an arcade based on Uncle Fester from the Munsters.
I'm not sure you'll find such a machine today in the U.S. or Europe...  All it takes is someone with a weak heart or a pacemaker, or maybe an electrical fault, and you're broke and out of business.... and someone is dead!   

I believe the normal product safety standard is 50V maximum on any part that can be contacted by a user.  Under normal conditions 50V does not generate enough current to be felt.    If you can touch something and you feel the electricity, the device/product is probably illegal.

zoomkat

You could get the shock parts out of a shock pin like below. I got some a good while back and they have a noticeable shock to the hand. 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=shock+pen&_sop=15
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aphasia

I feel as though this thread is already headed down the same path as others... CLEARLY there has to be a level at which people feel comfortable talking about safe ways to shock. 

Forget that I mentioned TENS -- I have a feeling that is a major issue and all are probably right, best to buy one.  So I'd like to talk instead about things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mBMxKWTTD0

This is the Uncle Fester video game I mentioned.  These machines ARE still in use all over, perhaps not super popular but videos are popping up from just a year or two ago on YouTube showing this machine in use.  Again, its a MILD shock at best, but combined with the psychological aspects of the sound and lights etc the "pain" feels more and more intense as the shocks build.  But again, this is a GAME that the makers are clearly NOT WORRIED about killing anyone with.  Surely shocks of this nature are safe enough to talk about?

How about this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgmcNjsvRzk

This is another commercially produced and sold ENTERTAINMENT item... and the makers clearly again not worried about hurting anyone. 

So, how do you recon the best way is to produce COMPLETELY HARMLESS and just otherwise surprising shock effects, simply?  Something that obviously is enough to be felt, enough to be unpleasant, but not anything dangerous in the least...?

Ideas?

JimboZA

there has to be  a level at which people feel comfortable talking about safe ways to shock. 
My emphasis... and there's the false premise. Why would there be?
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zoomkat

Quote
So, how do you recon the best way is to produce COMPLETELY HARMLESS and just otherwise surprising shock effects, simply?  Something that obviously is enough to be felt, enough to be unpleasant, but not anything dangerous in the least...?
If you can figure this out on your own, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. Quit the whining and do some research on your own.
Google forum search: Use Google Search box in upper right side of this page.
Why I like my 2005 Rio Yellow Honda S2000  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWjMvrkUqX0

AWOL

Quote
I once played a video game at an arcade based on Uncle Fester from the Munsters
Perhaps Fester's surname might give you a clue that you've got the wrong sit-com.

I'm moving this to Bar Sport - it clearly has nothing at all to do with Arduino.
"Pete, it's a fool (who) looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

aphasia

I brought this to the Arduino forum because I was looking for input into ways the Arduino could be used in projects that utilize this effect-- specifically that it would be useful as a square wave generator-- but I am very confused and rather frustrated that somehow this is a taboo subject.

No, I clearly do not know what I need to know about electronics and electrical theory and yes, I have much learning and reading to do.

I had hoped that the folks of this forum could be part of that process.  I'm accused of whining?  Thanks for making a new person feel welcome.

If there were more information around on this subject in a clear and understandable form for someone like myself to read -- I'd go there. But since everyone is so oddly touchy about this that kind of information isn't available. That's why I thought (gasp) that asking and explaining could help.

I'm still eager to hear from anyone who is willing to help me out. Maybe a private message would be better? 

Very unpleasant experience using this forum so far.

AWOL

#11
Apr 29, 2015, 07:20 pm Last Edit: Apr 29, 2015, 07:24 pm by AWOL
Quote
specifically that it would be useful as a square wave generator
Try a 555

Quote
I am very confused and rather frustrated that somehow this is a taboo subject.
Because the chances of things going wrong are high, and no-one wants that on their rap sheet.

Seriously, grow up.
"Pete, it's a fool (who) looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

aphasia

Btw AWOL, yes-- I was an idiot and said Munsters instead of the Addams Family.  It was a mistake but hardly changes the meat of the subject.

aphasia

My emphasis... and there's the false premise. Why would there be?
Yes. Clearly I was mistaken.

We'll go with the "abstinence works" approach.

AWOL

Btw AWOL, yes-- I was an idiot and said Munsters instead of the Addams Family.  It was a mistake but hardly changes the meat of the subject.
well, if you can't get a simple thing like that right (and that is easily googlable), imagine how likely you are to screw up your shocker.
"Pete, it's a fool (who) looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

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