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Topic: Saw a new thing in the Playground -- Dudelib. (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

GoForSmoke

https://github.com/vinmenn/DudeLib

Quote
This library is a completely software solution for remote uploading of compiled sketches into connected Arduinos. Dudelib can upload a sketch using standard optiboot bootloader if a normal serial line is used (with DTR line to reset Arduino), or using a lightly modified optiboot you could send a sketch through a local RS485 network.
A bit like Nicks' hex file loader, I guess.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

TomGeorge

#1
Feb 01, 2016, 11:36 pm Last Edit: Feb 01, 2016, 11:37 pm by TomGeorge
Hi,
Has anyone seen/used this arduino INDUSTRIAL product?

http://www.industrialshields.com/

Interesting..

Tom..... :)
Everything runs on smoke, let the smoke out, it stops running....

amine2

Hi,
Has anyone seen/used this arduino INDUSTRIAL product?

http://www.industrialshields.com/

Interesting..

Tom..... :)
hey :) , it's nice that you brought this up George .
i was an intern for a metal forging factory a while back in tunisia . and they were using Siemens PLCs .
they buy all the software (expensive as ---) and always have to bring some german programmers to update it and work on it . it's all so closed .

once i recommended using a more Open PLC , it wasn't that one , but one quite similar to it (being familiar with the AVR or ARM architecture would allow you to fully and effectively program it without problems)
due to my young age and that being out of the mainstream they rapidly rejected the idea . big businesses consider such a thing to be risky and unreliable just because it defies the mainstream 

that place has a large number of factories  all using PLCs similar to the Siemens system , and all closed when it comes to software and licensing
it's all about the melons .

Robin2

#3
Feb 02, 2016, 04:08 pm Last Edit: Feb 02, 2016, 04:11 pm by Robin2
and all closed when it comes to software and licensing
If they get the sort of guarantee where they can recover their costs if something goes wrong then it may make sense to pay for an expensive system. The expense is to cover the guarantee - not the hardware or software.

I may be able to source hardware and write software but there is no way in hell I could provide a guarantee.

However if they are paying through the nose without getting that sort of guarantee ... ...

Another important issue is not to be dependent on the expertise of a single person - who could die or just decide to withold his expertise. It may well be more expensive to have 4 expert programmers as permanent staff than it is to pay for an outsourced system. Also, if these are the only experts of that type it will be difficult for a company to manage them - who to hire, how to know if they are underperforming, how to keep up their professional development etc.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

GoForSmoke

PLC's are blazing fast, aren't they?
Blazing expensive too.

How do you program PLD's like the ATF16vb8 as a glue chip? They've hobby-affordable, $1 range.
But how to code them, is there a hardware model, those things I don't find.







1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

amine2

If they get the sort of guarantee where they can recover their costs if something goes wrong then it may make sense to pay for an expensive system. The expense is to cover the guarantee - not the hardware or software.

I may be able to source hardware and write software but there is no way in hell I could provide a guarantee.

However if they are paying through the nose without getting that sort of guarantee ... ...

Another important issue is not to be dependent on the expertise of a single person - who could die or just decide to withold his expertise. It may well be more expensive to have 4 expert programmers as permanent staff than it is to pay for an outsourced system. Also, if these are the only experts of that type it will be difficult for a company to manage them - who to hire, how to know if they are underperforming, how to keep up their professional development etc.

...R
Thank you very much Robin that's a very interesting point . it might work for new small factories though . it's just not for the big ones like you said .
it's all about the melons .

amine2

PLC's are blazing fast, aren't they?
Blazing expensive too.

How do you program PLD's like the ATF16vb8 as a glue chip? They've hobby-affordable, $1 range.
But how to code them, is there a hardware model, those things I don't find.
"a glue chip"? what's the use of that ?
it's all about the melons .

Robin2

it might work for new small factories though .
Even that is not a simple issue. If (for example) your expertise is in making carpets you don't want to waste any of your very limited management time on complex computer stuff, or become dependent on some really enthusiatic computer geek who suddenly decides to take a year off to meditate.

It is too easy to assume that cheap is actually a saving.

Having said all that I am not saying the expensive companies (eg Siemens) should have it all their own way. But the answer, I think, is for someone to establish a competing product and to be able to offer appropriate quality assurances. A "kitchen table" solution is generally not an appropriate alternative.

Actually a big factory might be more easily able to absorb the cost of some cheaper experimental alternatives if there was a prospect of a useful overall saving.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

GoForSmoke

1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

amine2

Don't worry about it.
i did already establish the fact that your experience is superior than mine .
i am asking you for help with that one .
it's all about the melons .

amine2

Even that is not a simple issue. If (for example) your expertise is in making carpets you don't want to waste any of your very limited management time on complex computer stuff, or become dependent on some really enthusiatic computer geek who suddenly decides to take a year off to meditate.

It is too easy to assume that cheap is actually a saving.

Having said all that I am not saying the expensive companies (eg Siemens) should have it all their own way. But the answer, I think, is for someone to establish a competing product and to be able to offer appropriate quality assurances. A "kitchen table" solution is generally not an appropriate alternative.

Actually a big factory might be more easily able to absorb the cost of some cheaper experimental alternatives if there was a prospect of a useful overall saving.

...R
thank you very very much sir . i highly appreciate it .
it's all about the melons .

GoForSmoke

i did already establish the fact that your experience is superior than mine .
i am asking you for help with that one .
My experience with programmed logic is hearing and some reading, very little.

With a simple one, you can connect inputs and program links and logic gates between inputs to make outputs, quicker than Arduino clock. Just reordering 8 inputs to 8 outputs would be the Blink for those.

What do you know about using logic gates? Ever see the old lights and switches arrangements to teach logic and show tricks with? Programmed Logic chips have arrays of those that you can set to operate between the inputs and outputs, all in a chip.

But I don't find the 101 course on PLD's so I do other things.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

Whandall

How do you program PLD's like the ATF16vb8 as a glue chip? They've hobby-affordable, $1 range.
One place would be http://www.atmel.com/tools/atf15xx-dk3-u.aspx#buy

Xilinx has some free software for their CPLDs.
Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of. (D.Adams)

GoForSmoke

#13
Feb 04, 2016, 05:01 am Last Edit: Feb 04, 2016, 05:24 am by GoForSmoke
After some digging I find that I want SPLD, not CPLD. The AT16vb8 came in a 20 pin PDIP a couple of years ago, for about $1.

Found it. Datasheet has the path I wanted under 9. Software Support.

1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

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