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Topic: Wifi without WiFi shield only with NRF24L01+possible ? (Read 42026 times) previous topic - next topic

Frederic_Plante

#15
Sep 11, 2013, 06:58 pm Last Edit: Sep 11, 2013, 06:59 pm by Frédéric_Plante Reason: 1
Quote
In that case, the differences are actually quite significant; the raw processing power of a Raspberry Pi class device is many, many times that of an Arduino,


Yeap that is true for sure. And that why I was talking about the Yùn up there.

But in the same way, your solution is not much different from the WIFI to UART adapter once you have a tight programmed mini pro to do the transition between UART and SPI.

The thing is you need a board that has IP Stacking built in so you don't use your resources to do the stacking.
As we fight our way northward into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain...

pico


Just can't wait to my hand on the new Yùn to give it a test drive:

http://store.arduino.cc/ww/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_12&products_id=313



Yes, the Yun looks interesting; like RFXduino, it is actually a Linux gateway system as well, it just has a Linux gateway attached to every dev board!

Which is one way of doing it, but ultimately perhaps not the most efficient way of doing it. And which means that I don't think it's going to get down to < $20 /node deployment any time soon. ;)



Raspberry is nice but they like to sell there software, while Arduino has the good habit of giving every thing.



Well, Arduino don't actually give away everything, at least not the last time I looked. But if in fact, Arduino are giving away their Yuns, let me know...   :smiley-mr-green:
WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

Frederic_Plante

#17
Sep 11, 2013, 07:06 pm Last Edit: Sep 11, 2013, 07:12 pm by Frédéric_Plante Reason: 1
Bien you don't put the Yùn on every project, you put a NRF24 on the Yùn SPI  to turn it in to a NRF24 to WIFI or Ethernet gateway, and you go with cheaper board for all the project you Have. Basically the Yùn replace the Raspberry in your gateway project.

And when I say Arduino give away stuff I'm talking about the software of coarse.
As we fight our way northward into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain...

pico


Quote
In that case, the differences are actually quite significant; the raw processing power of a Raspberry Pi class device is many, many times that of an Arduino,


Yeap that is true for sure. And that why I was talking about the Yùn up there.

But in the same way, your solution is not much different from the WIFI to UART adapter once you have a tight programmed mini pro to do the transition between UART and SPI.


I think you'll find there is much, much more difference than you realise. How many client Arduinos do you think a 328p class device can handle at once and keep up an acceptable bandwidth for each? How many port connections can you have simultaneously open with an ENC28 module?


The thing is you need a board that has IP Stacking built in so you don't use your resources to do the stacking.


When you got a CPU running at 700MHz+, 512MB of RAM to play with, and 8GB of SD Card storage, a Linux software stack is no problem at all... :smiley-mr-green:

WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

pico

#19
Sep 11, 2013, 07:22 pm Last Edit: Sep 11, 2013, 07:24 pm by pico Reason: 1

Bien you don't put the Yùn on every project, you put a NRF24 on the Yùn SPI  to turn it in to a NRF24 to WIFI or Ethernet gateway, and you go with cheaper board for all the project you Have. Basically the Yùn replace the Raspberry in your gateway project.


Yes, except the RPi is running a full Debian Linux distro and the Yun is only running OpenWRT, which is a fairly cut down and minimalist version of Linux designed for routers. It's also running a significantly less powerful processor than the RPi. It could be made to work, but what I've read about it, I think performance would be significantly compromised.

The main reason I chose the RPi for the gateway device was simply the power/cost ratio. Hard to beat, just like the nRF24L01+ radios.

But I'm glad to see you agree with the basic Linux gateway philosophy. I think the Yun is still way too expensive to deploy on every project.


And when I say Arduino give away stuff I'm talking about the software of coarse.


I know. I'm just saying that everyone has their business models, even Arduino, and no-one stays in business very long giving everything away for free all the time. And Arduino hardware is _far_ from free!
WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

Frederic_Plante

Well let's refere to there :
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardYun

Quote
AVR Arduino microcontroller
Microcontroller   ATmega32u4
Operating Voltage   5V
Input Voltage   5V
Digital I/O Pins   20
PWM Channels   7
Analog Input Channels   12
DC Current per I/O Pin   40 mA
DC Current for 3.3V Pin   50 mA
Flash Memory   32 KB (of which 4 KB used by bootloader)
SRAM   2.5 KB
EEPROM   1 KB
Clock Speed   16 MHz
Linux microprocessor
Processor   Atheros AR9331
Architecture   MIPS @400MHz
Operating Voltage   3.3V
Ethernet   IEEE 802.3 10/100Mbit/s
WiFi   IEEE 802.11b/g/n
USB Type-A   2.0 Host/Device
Card Reader   Micro-SD only
RAM   64 MB DDR2
Flash Memory   32 MB


For sure the Raspberry has more resources, but seriously who would really run 255 devices? Some maybe but Mister any one would do just fine with the Yùn. Plus the Yùn has the advantage to be in the same scheme of programming as all your other Arduino device.

Doesn't take much to screew your mind up when you have to pass from one language of programmation to the other. Having one and only one scheme to work with save time of changing from one philosophy to the other. To me it's very important.

Finaly i'm pretty sure that they did not put an ENC28 on the Yùn, it's probably more a W5100 network device.
As we fight our way northward into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain...

Frederic_Plante

#21
Sep 11, 2013, 07:27 pm Last Edit: Sep 11, 2013, 07:30 pm by Frédéric_Plante Reason: 1
With time, it's gonna turn into the same kind of fight that PC and MAC has, but what really matter is, does your computer is up to do what you need to do. There both good in there own way. ;)

And for now, I can't even say is Yùn is good since I have not tried the device.
As we fight our way northward into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain...

Frederic_Plante

Talking about amazing and expensive board, have you tried the BeagleBone? I'm looking for feed back before give it a try.
As we fight our way northward into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain...

pico

#23
Sep 11, 2013, 07:49 pm Last Edit: Sep 11, 2013, 08:45 pm by pico Reason: 1

Well let's refere to there :
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardYun
Microcon

Quote

Linux microprocessor
Processor   Atheros AR9331
Architecture   MIPS @400MHz
Operating Voltage   3.3V
Ethernet   IEEE 802.3 10/100Mbit/s
WiFi   IEEE 802.11b/g/n
USB Type-A   2.0 Host/Device
Card Reader   Micro-SD only
RAM   64 MB DDR2
Flash Memory   32 MB



The main thing I compare here is RPI: 700MHz+ (vs 400MHz Yun), 512MB Ram (vs 64MB Yun).


For sure the Raspberry has more resources, but seriously who would really run 255 devices? Some maybe but Mister any one would do just fine with the Yùn. Plus the Yùn has the advantage to be in the same scheme of programming as all your other Arduino device.


It's true, few people would need to connect 255 devices. But I'm running 14 at the moment connected through a single RPi gateway in my home network, and I wouldn't think that's unusual for many keen embedded device enthusiasts (there's always another project!). It's also about having the spare maximum capacity to run well in the average case... I just really don't think the Yun would have the capacity to do this nearly as well.


Doesn't take much to screew your mind up when you have to pass from one language of programmation to the other. Having one and only one scheme to work with save time of changing from one philosophy to the other. To me it's very important.


As for the same scheme, I run gcc when I program the Arduinos, and I run gcc when I program the RPi. I even run the same editor (emacs) programming both devices. I like gcc and emacs. Keeps me sane (sort of). :smiley-mr-green:


Finaly i'm pretty sure that they did not put an ENC28 on the Yùn, it's probably more a W5100 network device.


Yes, I'm sure the Yun would have something more capable than an ENC28. I was referring to your original gateway proposal with the ENC28.

On balance, I think the Yun will be a good thing for the RFXduino project, as it will make people a bit more familiar with the whole Arduino+Linux gateway concept, and its great potential to make things simpler and yet more powerful. That's the message I've been preaching! I think sometimes I'm a bit misunderstood though because the concept isn't quite mainstream yet in the Arduino community.

But I think that's going to change.
WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

pico

#24
Sep 11, 2013, 08:03 pm Last Edit: Sep 11, 2013, 08:09 pm by pico Reason: 1

Talking about amazing and expensive board, have you tried the BeagleBone? I'm looking for feed back before give it a try.


No, I haven't got one yet, but only because I've been too busy. I think they look like really nicely thought out boards, and obviously priced to go head to head with the RPis.

I was toying with the idea of porting the RFXduino gateway to a BBBlack just to compare performance, and I may still do this at some stage. But I think strategically the RPi is the preferable platform for the gateway, because there are probably a lot of RPis out there that were bought when they came out and have been sitting on shelves looking for something to do. So the RFXduino gateway is something they can do, if they've been underemployed!

Also, the RPis have the benefit of a larger and more established user community, and so on. But in terms of raw specs, the BBBlack is a very attractive proposition... I'll definitely be getting one, just not sure when.
WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

Frederic_Plante

#25
Sep 11, 2013, 08:27 pm Last Edit: Sep 11, 2013, 08:38 pm by Frédéric_Plante Reason: 1
Quote
... as it will make people a bit more familiar with the whole Arduino+Linux gateway concept, and its great potential to make things simpler and yet more powerful. That's the message I've been preaching! I think sometimes I'm a bit misunderstood though because the concept isn't quite mainstream yet in the Arduino community.


Personally I believe the greatest device are running under Linux. And not just gateways, but network printers, networked cameras, all that can be networked. And that why I was like "Finally they made some thing like the Yùn!!!" Cause they were loosing all the level 2 programmer to other kind of board like RPie..

But the thing is, Arduino is espacially there to initiate mister anyone to programming something else then a PC. So they have to put all the basic stuff on the same board. And then they have to make an IDE that is simple enogh for anyone to use it.

And I believe that on all these levels they deserve a big BRAVO.
As we fight our way northward into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain...

Frederic_Plante

Ouf I have a 6gig max download monthly this gcc installation scare the crap out of me ;)
As we fight our way northward into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain...

pico

WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

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