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Topic: Time to retire ATmega328P? (Read 10401 times) previous topic - next topic

Isaac96

#30
Jul 26, 2015, 11:10 pm Last Edit: Jul 26, 2015, 11:12 pm by Isaac96
The Teensy is a great product. Costs the same amount as a Pro Mini (in the Arduino store) and has  built-in USB,
(the picture from the product page)

Microcontroller
MK20DX256VLH7
Operating Voltage
3.3V
Input Voltage (limit)
5V
Digital I/O Pins
34
PWM Digital I/O Pins
12
Analog Input Pins
21
Analog Output Pins
1
Flash Memory
256 KB
SRAM
64 KB
EEPROM
2
Clock Speed
72 MHz

It also has 2 SPI ports. And the emulation for the AVR is amazing.
There is also CAN bus functionality.
Do not PM me for help. I will delete immediately.
CONNECT THE GROUNDS!

After Tuesday, even the calendar goes W T F

odometer

People have to deal with workarounds and removing features to deal with the low space Uno's and Nano's have. As soon as one wishes to use any networking, GPS or anything else other than simple led blinking.
That would be cool for an info Web site:


Which board is right for you?

Question #1:
Do you want to
(a) just blink an LED
or
(b) do more than just blink an LED?



Pinaki_Gupta_1982

I don't understand why Atmel does not release a 48 pin native USB based ADC/DAC included DIP packed ARM. Question is not who will buy. Who buy AVR? We.
When they released AVR who were their target customers? All these does not matter. Initially that might be a little problem but they will find intended customers at the end.
If an ARM like this comes into the open market we can think about UNO R3 ARM. At least we will be able to soil our hands with ARM development process with no or little effort.
Things will be a lot easy.

Pinaki_Gupta_1982

Just now I found an ARM  LPC1114 DIP packed IC. Just google 'arm in dip package'.
It application has been mentioned here.
Now our Arduino can create an ARM board based on this IC.
One question, Can I create a JTAG or alike programmer with UNO R3 board? Can I create a usbasp like ARM programmer? I would not mind using gcc-arm.

68tjs

#34
Jul 27, 2015, 08:54 pm Last Edit: Jul 27, 2015, 09:01 pm by 68tjs
Quote
When they released AVR who were their target customers?
Professionals and only professionals.

You, like me, represent a very very small percentage of Atmel  customers and it is happy for Atmel.
Our opinion has no weight compared to that of professionals

Professionals refuse DIP: too big, too long to assemble.
In total cost of a product percentage of pcb area is very important so packages have to be smaller as possible.

Currently professionals prefer SMD and BGA.
Tomorrow they will use only chip on board (COB) or Wafer Size Package.

You'll have to admit that it will be increasingly difficult to make our board ourselves and  we will have to content ourselves to  assemble manufactured modules.

Regarding the ATmega328 IMHO it is still usable for many years.
 The real question is: "How long Atmel will maintain production lines etching 90nm".
IMHO the answer will not be technical but financial.

Pinaki_Gupta_1982

#35
Jul 28, 2015, 02:04 pm Last Edit: Jul 28, 2015, 02:07 pm by Pinaki_Gupta_1982 Reason: typo
Quote
You'll have to admit that it will be increasingly difficult to make our board ourselves and  we will have to content ourselves to  assemble manufactured modules.
Yes, we are already doing this. We cannot make our own motherboards. It will be too difficult to assemble a large circuitry. We are also buying modules BMP, motion analyzer like this one, or Wi-Fi like this etc are examples.
But for a small custom circuit their production method is not feasible. Their method is suitable for a commonly and widely used products like our arduino boards, sensors, computer SMPS, motherboards, mobile phones, TV set, washing machines, automobile electronics, calculators etc, not for a custom solution.
Also there is a prototyping stage in every manufacturing process. Oh! I forgot to tell a little story, what about schools and colleges? So DIP is not going to be obsolete. But it will be limited within a few types of usages and the price will be prohibitively high.

Quote
Regarding the ATmega328 IMHO it is still usable for many years.
 The real question is: "How long Atmel will maintain production lines etching 90nm".
IMHO the answer will not be technical but financial.
But Atmel is still manufacturing ATMEGA328 because there are other customers who buy 328. And NXP has released their DIP packaged ARM  LPC1114. All we need a USB-TTL converter, find a description. We can make our own USB-TTL if we hate to buy it. There are AVR-CDC, V-USB based on existing AVRs. Many China manufacturers are shipping cheap Chinese SMD versions of AVR-CDC here in India. These are cheap and small. So we can start our ARM Arduino with NXP even if Atmel stops the DIP AVR production line.
And why not use LPC1114? Its all
   50 MHz
   32KB Flash
   8KB SRAM
   SPI
   I2C
   USART
   10-bit ADC
   1×16-bit timer
   2×32-bit timers
   Cortex M0+
Best part its 1 USD. We expect at least at 1.6-1.8 USD when it will reach the local market. Atmega is still much above 2 USD. I bought an ATMEGA328-PU from an old stock rack from a local shop for 150 Indian Rupees (nearly 2.5 USD).
If we wish we can get into ARM and DIP at the same time. I expect our next Arduino UNO R3 ARM now.
Yes a lot of trouble is waiting there. We have to add a new tool-chain GCC-ARM plus we will have to configure our IDE so that it can compile ihex for ARM via GCC-ARM from Arduino C++ ino codes.
But it is possible if we wish.


Isaac96

There are already ARM boards in Boards Manager. The STM32 core is an example of porting to 32-bit ARM processors, and works well (so I've been told). http://stm32duino.com
Do not PM me for help. I will delete immediately.
CONNECT THE GROUNDS!

After Tuesday, even the calendar goes W T F

westfw

Quote
And why not use LPC1114? [in DIP]  Its all
   32KB Flash
   8KB SRAM
Well, to start with, it doesn't have the stuff like MORE FLASH MEMORY that we wanted an ARM to have, and there's no growth path to another DIP chip that does have more flash...

Quote
Best part its 1 USD. We expect at least at 1.6-1.8 USD when it will reach the local market.
Digikey and Mouser are both charging nearly $6 for the LPC1114 in DIP.
Also note that it's a "wide" DIP; I don't know if you can fit it on an arduino form-factor board.


Pinaki_Gupta_1982

Quote
it doesn't have the stuff like MORE FLASH MEMORY that we wanted an ARM to have
Well, this chip is meant to replace the 8-bit micro available in DIP package. This chip may not have much memory, but they (NXP) may release another with more memory. Memory has nothing to do with the ARM architecture. Our ATMEGA328 has the same amount that does not bother us.

Quote
there's no growth path to another DIP chip that does have more flash...
This is not the end of anything. ARM is not limited with this particular chip. We might have another DIP with a better memory or even another SMD ARM from a different vendor. Since the architecture is same, ARM, we won't have to pay very extra efforts. At anytime we can switch to an SMD version of another ARM. So nothing is in stake.
How do we think 8-bit DIP AVRs have a better growth path! AVR will remain, but a better AVR will always be SMD. So whats our problem to jump into ARM. It is at least learning a new platform with a DIP. And we don't need very specialized tools/skills to deal with a DIP, all are available at our home. We should not compare everything based on some negligible aspects. Its not AVR vs ARM, its just riding a new Motorbike. Even if it does not have a better memory still it is ARM, and ARM has a growth path. Its the future. Not only this. It has a better clock speed, 50MHz at least. And Arduino is not going to kill their UNO boards with AVR chips. It will just be another weapon in their arsenal. So whats wrong with it!

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