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Topic: Why the Arduino needs RoHS/CE ? (Read 2001 times) previous topic - next topic

Lawris

Hello everyone,


I'm actually looking for informations on RoHS and CE norms to sell electronic material.


I've noticed that the Arduino got both CE and RoHS Compliant logos.

But, Arduino is in the "Electronic low voltage Material" category if I'm not wrong, whether the 2015/35/UE regulation.

However, in this regulation, its written that the RoHS norm apply to electrical equipment designed for
use with a voltage rating of between 50 and 1 000 V for alternating
current and between 75 and 1 500 V for direct current. (see Chapter 1 GENERAL PROVISIONS
Article 1 on http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32014L0035&from=EN)

Arduino is never getting the voltage above, I'm wondering then why the Arduino needs the RoHS/CE certification.



Thanks in advance.

MarkT

#1
Nov 25, 2016, 09:50 pm Last Edit: Nov 25, 2016, 09:52 pm by MarkT
RoHS is about not polluting water tables from waste electronic equipment in rubbish dumps,
and not generating (highly) lethal smoke in a fire.

The regulations for mains equipment is probably not the only place it is mentioned.
[ I will NOT respond to personal messages, I WILL delete them, use the forum please ]

srnet

As has been mentioned, there are restrictions about the sale of products containing lead based solder etc. The problem is that a lot of electronic stuff ends up in landfill and the toxic stuff (lead and cadmium for instance) leach into the waterways.

And CE is required for most things placed on the market in the EU.
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Grumpy_Mike

#3
Nov 26, 2016, 10:33 am Last Edit: Nov 26, 2016, 10:41 am by Grumpy_Mike
Quote
However, in this regulation, its written that the RoHS norm apply to electrical equipment designed for
use with a voltage rating of between 50 and 1 000 V for alternating
current and between 75 and 1 500 V for direct current. (see Chapter 1 GENERAL PROVISIONS
No that is the wrong interpretation, RoHS applies to all equipment who's main purpose requires electricity. There are certain exemptions applying to some categories of equipment such as military, medical and building infrastructure. All other categories of equipment on sale in the EU need to be compliment, there is no official logo for this.

CE is required on all goods sold in the EU, it is just a self declaration that the product conforms to all the relevant regulations for that category of equipment. So a CE logo for electronic equipment serves as the RoHS logo as well.

I spent a few years of my life being in charge of regulation at one place I worked for so I have read all the documentation on this and attended training courses on it.

Grumpy_Mike

As has been mentioned, there are restrictions about the sale of products containing lead based solder etc. The problem is that a lot of electronic stuff ends up in landfill and the toxic stuff (lead and cadmium for instance) leach into the waterways.
Note there has NEVER been any documented occurrence of this happening, nore any measurements suggesting it could happen. This is a theoretical risk only dreamed up by EU technocrats.

Is it any wonder the UK voted to leave.

srnet

No that is the wrong interpretation, RoHS applies to all equipment who's main purpose requires electricity. There are certain exemptions applying to some categories of equipment such as military, medical and building infrastructure. All other categories of equipment on sale in the EU need to be compliment, there is no official logo for this.

CE is required on all goods sold in the EU, it is just a self declaration that the product conforms to all the relevant regulations for that category of equipment. So a CE logo for electronic equipment serves as the RoHS logo as well.

I spent a few years of my life being in charge of regulation at one place I worked for so I have read all the documentation on this and attended training courses on it.
Does not some stuff needs additional (expensive) testing by a notified body, RF devices for instance ?
$50SAT is now Silent (but probably still running)
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srnet

Note there has NEVER been any documented occurrence of this happening, nore any measurements suggesting it could happen. This is a theoretical risk only dreamed up by EU technocrats.
Maybe not.

I will ask my partner, who was (now retired) a chemist working for the Environment Agency, her job was the regulating and control of landfill sites. 
$50SAT is now Silent (but probably still running)
http://www.50dollarsat.info/
http://www.loratracker.uk/

Grumpy_Mike

Does not some stuff needs additional (expensive) testing by a notified body, RF devices for instance ?
Yes that is all part of the "relevant " regulations that is signalled by the use of the CE logo.
You do not need to actually test the equipment but you have to certify it will meet those regulations. Due diligence is to have it tested but for CE there is no need. The same goes for safety certification. Mind you some companies will insist these things are tested by an external body, these are mainly in my experience German companies.

An offensive is only committed when someone has tested the equipment and found it failing. Then how much of the "book" is thrown at you depends on your attitude to due diligence in the past. That is if you had it tested or your reasons for not having it tested.

I am aware that this is different to FCC regulations on emissions.

srnet

Yes that is all part of the "relevant " regulations that is signalled by the use of the CE logo.
You do not need to actually test the equipment but you have to certify it will meet those regulations. Due diligence is to have it tested but for CE there is no need
Intereseting and I am not in disagreement.

I would sell the LoRa trackers I designed, but have always held back because of the special requirments of a RF device, I presumed it needed external notified body testing.

Even it you could self certify, that is a problem because the 'regulations' are not free, and it can be rather expensive to aquire all the ones you would need to be sure your product does comply.

Its a mess for sure, myself I think its conspiracy by 'big business' to kill off inovation and competion from small business.
$50SAT is now Silent (but probably still running)
http://www.50dollarsat.info/
http://www.loratracker.uk/

Grumpy_Mike

Quote
Even it you could self certify, that is a problem because the 'regulations' are not free,
What is not free? It costs you nothing to self certify. Or do you mean you have to pay for the documents that tell you what needs to be met?

Quote
because of the special requirments of a RF device, I presumed it needed external notified body testing.
Not in the EU, you can do it yourself. That is you can do the tests required and self certify the compliance.

For FCC you do need an approved external test house however.

Quote
myself I think its conspiracy by 'big business' to kill off inovation and competion from small business.
There is a lot of truth in that, it is called "a high barrier to entry".

In the US FCC and UL are looked at by many as a form of import control.

srnet

Or do you mean you have to pay for the documents that tell you what needs to be met?
Directives are free, the actual standards are not, althoug if anyone knows of an online source .......

In the UK you would get them as the equivalent adopted British Standard, not cheap.

There can also be quite a few standards that apply.
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gpsmikey

Quite some years back, we were designing avionics stuff.  The processor we picked was the Motorola 68332 for a number of reasons.  One of the reasons (other than it was a really neat processor) was that it had been developed for the automotive industry and cleverly got around some requirements for EMI - there are different (stricter) regulations that apply to any digital device with a clock frequency above 32khz ... so, the 68332 was developed with an internal phase locked loop multiplier - externally, the processor ran at 32khz but internally, we ran it at 16mhz.  Well, the clock WAS 32khz  :)
mikey
-- you can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !
old engineering saying: 1+1 = 3 for sufficiently large values of 1 or small values of 3

srnet

Note there has NEVER been any documented occurrence of this happening, nore any measurements suggesting it could happen. This is a theoretical risk only dreamed up by EU technocrats.
I did ask and the answer was less than convincing.

So it seems likley the ban (on leaded solder etc) was based more on a general 'its a good idea' than actual hard evidence.
$50SAT is now Silent (but probably still running)
http://www.50dollarsat.info/
http://www.loratracker.uk/

Delta_G

#13
Nov 27, 2016, 07:18 pm Last Edit: Nov 27, 2016, 07:18 pm by Delta_G
Note there has NEVER been any documented occurrence of this happening, nore any measurements suggesting it could happen. This is a theoretical risk only dreamed up by EU technocrats.

Is it any wonder the UK voted to leave.
Are you saying that lead cannot oxidize from the solder on a board and leach into water?  A well trained chemist (me) would like to disagree.  That is not only very possible, but I could easily set up an experiment to demonstrate it.  All I'd need is something that is known to be put together with lead solder. 
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Grumpy_Mike

#14
Nov 27, 2016, 07:46 pm Last Edit: Nov 27, 2016, 07:50 pm by Grumpy_Mike
Quote
Are you saying that lead cannot oxidize from the solder on a board and leach into water?
No I am saying that there has never been any documented nor experimental evidence that this can happen in land fill with electronic equipment. Sure you can put all sorts of acid on it to make it oxidize but those acids are not found in any landfill situations.

Quote
So it seems likley the ban (on leaded solder etc) was based more on a general 'its a good idea' than actual hard evidence.
Yes, it is known as "the precautionary principle" - which a lot of EU legislation is based on. That means no evidence, but we like banning stuff so we cover our arse. That is why we now have to put up with glues that don't stick, wood preservative that doesn't preserve wood and cold treatments that don't work. This is due to

1) Stupidity
2) Lobbying by companies that seek to profit or cripple their rivals.
3) Stupidity

Same with banning lead in the paint on pencils. You would have to chew through several boxes per days for a few months to exceed minimum safety levels.

Latest one is the proposed ban on glyphosate-based herbicides because traces many thousand times lower than "safe" levels have been found elsewhere. That may be a ban too far and countries are starting to kick back. The whole EU is a farce in this respect and the quicker the UK is out of it the better so they can paint themselves into their own bureaucratic corner.

Did you know there was a ban on advertising water as capable of rehydrating you. That caused such an outrage that they rescinded it, but the stupid bureaucrats still thought it a good idea to introduce.

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