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AWOL

Windows 10 may not crash often, but it seems to spend an awful lot of time updating itself.

Delta_G

Quote
windows 10 hardly ever crashes
If you say so.  Not my experience.  
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Qdeathstar

It does update all the time...
A creaking creeping shadow
stiff against the freezing fog
glares at a tickless watch.

Time has failed him -- all things shall pass.

Delta_G

Arduino is completely open source.  You have all the source code right on your computer and can rewrite or copy or recompile any part of it you'd like. 
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Robin2

laymen don't care about open source.
I understand that.

However that is not a good reason to allow Microsoft to abuse its market position and force people who do like OpenSource to take Windows software that they neither need nor want.

I am certainly not, and never have been an IT professional. I switched to Linux years ago because I was not prepared to pay the price to upgrade Windows XP professional to whatever came next. And because I was fed up with the wading-through-treacle speed at which Windows booted. Even now (watching a friend's laptop) it seems to take forever just to load the device manager program. And at the time I bought the laptop with XP professional (it cost over €1000 IIRC) because I thought that was the only way to get a web server - not realizing I could have had it all free (and better) with Linux.

...R

Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Delta_G

I would add something about viruses and the size of the target being why most are written for Windows systems but I just suffered a MAJOR attack on my Ubuntu system so I might hold back on that.  Although the particular attack that got me seems to have been specifically targeted at me so it might not really mean much.  Seems someone in China (or at least appearing to be in China) was wanting to pull some specific proprietary company information off of me.  Fortunately they hit the wrong box and just messed up one morning and not my whole job.
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Robin2

I would add something about viruses and the size of the target being why most are written for Windows systems
This is a subject that really p****es me off about Microsoft.

Medical experts have understood for 100 years or more how nature deals with viruses - by diversity. It is why in-breeding is forbidden in most human societies. But Microsoft has never taken a blind bit of notice and continues to pump-out billions of identical clones.

Mind you, Google / Android is probably not any better.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Delta_G

#22
Dec 21, 2017, 09:00 pm Last Edit: Dec 21, 2017, 09:01 pm by Delta_G
I don't know how diversity of OS would work.  If I make it more diverse so unwanted programs can't install or can't run then that affects installing or running wanted programs too.  And whatever mechanism you can envision for allowing regular programs to install and run in a diverse system could be applied by the writers of the virus as well.  At the end of the day the only difference between a program you want and a virus is whether or not you the human wants it.  They're both just programs to the computer.

The real difference between biology and computer in this sense is that biological systems don't install new code at any point.  The body can assume that anything modifying the DNA "code" is an attack.  The computer can't make that assumption. 
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Robin2

I don't know how diversity of OS would work.
Windows viruses don't normally work on Linux. But there are many legitimate programs (such as Libre Office) that work on both.

I realize it would be expensive, but all Microsoft has to to is create and distribute (say) 3 other operating systems that cannot share viruses and ensure that each variety gets roughly equal distribution among users. That's how nature does it. And it is probably expensive for nature also.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

TKall

Quote
I realize it would be expensive
And who should pay that bill, you?  This is a law enforcement problem not a damn programming problem.  And, beyond that, it is a liberal problem because the judges don't have the spines to give harsh sentences. 

Delta_G

#25
Dec 21, 2017, 11:20 pm Last Edit: Dec 21, 2017, 11:25 pm by Delta_G
How is it a liberal problem about liberal judges when the vast majority of these viruses come from places like China, Russia, and North Korea with very harsh sentences for everything?  That assertion just doesn't make any sense.  We could have the death penalty in Europe and the US for cyber crime and it wouldn't make a dent because the kids in the US are too stupid to write a virus and the ones in Europe are too lazy. 
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

TKall

Look up a few of the sentences handed down.  That german kid got a couple of years for a virus that affected millions.  That gucifer f'er got like 4 years.  Ransom ware is an act of war and should be dealt with as such.

TKall

I remember though that ahole from russia that was given like 26 years in seattle. 


Robin2

And who should pay that bill, you? 
Of course the users should pay.

I suspect it would be cheaper in the long run than all the cost of anti-virus systems and the huge business losses suffered when the anti-virus systems fail.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

msssltd

Windows viruses don't normally work on Linux. But there are many legitimate programs (such as Libre Office) that work on both.
Libre Office is an application.  Windows is an Operating System.  The problem Microsoft face with Windows going forward is the old IT #101 lesson; choose the application (not the hardware or the operating system).  The point of The Cloud is the IT-Mega corporations are attempting to control access to applications.  The new model for companies in a position to do it, is to monetize global access to the application and let smaller fish carry the risk of competing for sales.  From Office 365, to Amazon Marketplace, to Uber, to the banks pushing the cashless society.  When you consider that most Cloud services are accessed by smart devices running OS derived from Linux, it becomes apparent that Windows is currently running on 'brand' loyalty.

Quote
I realize it would be expensive, but all Microsoft has to to is create and distribute (say) 3 other operating systems that cannot share viruses and ensure that each variety gets roughly equal distribution among users.
There were a lot more than 3 editions of Windows XP.   I disagree with you on this, by the way.  Nature is very inefficient when it comes to adapting to new threats.  Diversity brings complexity and complexity increases the attack surface.

Windows is fundamentally less secure than *Nix.  Windows NT started out as a pretty secure operating systems (designed along the lines of VMS).  Microsoft sacrificed the inherent security of NT, for ease-of-use and performance, when they merged the Win 9x APIs into  Windows XP.  They tried to put it right with Vista but by then, the Windows eco system had grown too large.

Old style, machine to machine, infections have had their day anyhow.  The vast majority of infections now involve compromising the human operator; clicking a link in e-mail, accepting a PuP/PuM during installation of a purportedly 'free' utility, visiting a dodgy website.  With so many of the newer attacks being delivered via Javascript in the browser, malware has already gone cross platform.  No small irony the 'malware' I remove most often these days are the McAfee and AVG 'safe search' hijackers :(

In addition to the illegal script kiddies and legal profit gougers, we are starting to see the extent of the War, that Nation States are waging across the internet.  Ransomware attacks being the most visible.  WW III broke out years ago and few people even noticed(!)



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