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Topic: pulse width / period measurment with offset (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

country4life89

#15
Mar 09, 2018, 03:34 am Last Edit: Mar 09, 2018, 04:04 am by country4life89
The 5 to 15ms reaction time  will not be consistent for a particular relay, so you using a relay you have a built in deviation for each activation from what you want of  up to 15ms.
A MOSFET will be consistent and fast in its response.
Can you provide a diagram of your apparatus and a diagram/graph of the response you need from the timing circuit.
Can you please tell us your electronics, programming, Arduino, hardware experience?

[soapbox]
If you can get even 5% more energy out than you put in, then why isn't it available now?
5% would revolutionary.
1000W in out of my mains supply, (Easy) and the machine gives me an extra 50W, give it to me.
50W of extra LED lighting for free in a factory lighting situation for every 1000W, got to save money, so why aren't we seeing this now?
I appreciate that there has to be experimenters out there prepared to deviate from the norm, but the demonstrations that I have seen of over unity either;
  • use black boxes that are never disclosed.
  • show apparatus, but never any details on coil construction or circuit description.
  • use very unorthodox methods of measuring energy in and out, so efficiency/over unity calcs are not valid.
  • the demonstrator confuses Potential and Kinetic Energy.
  • has the fixation that back EMF from a disconnecting coil is extra energy coming out of the ether.

[/soapbox]
Tom.. :)
Its is available. A few different devices from a man named john bedini can do it. The aspect that makes it not feasible is a good section of the "reaction" occurs in lead acid batteries. The radiant electric spikes That are caused on purpose in his motor/generators are directed from the coil to a "charge" battery when properly tuned the amount of energy that ends up in the battery bank on the charge side cannot be accounted for. Many people have succeed with small systems in this way: Take one 12 volt battery and discharge it while measuring the energy that comes out of it so that you have a known capacity. Lets say for example that each battery (perfect scenario) have 100 watt hours of energy if you start at 12.5 volts and discharge down to 11.5. If you take these batteries and have the right generator tuned properly and you use one battery to run the machine while charging two batteries in parallel on the charge side. let the "run" battery discharge the predetermined value of 100 watt hours. when done you can take those two batteries that started at 11.5 and were charged to some higher value and discharge them back to 11.5 you will have over 100 watt hours from those two batteries. This has been replicated my quite a few people me being one of them. so for this particular setup you would need battery banks that could handle all the wattage you are looking for and when you calculate that it would take a very expensive battery bank to be able to get that "free" lighting. Therefore it works but is not economically feasible. The government knows of many devices that do this but will not consider it a success until 300 percent is achieved. At that point it becomes economically feasible.

Raymond kromrey built a device that also had an over unity aspect. One key to his generator is that when you pull more energy from the "charge" side the "run" side draws less current and the generator actually speeds up. This is backwards to conventional generators because on a normal generator the more power being used the more the reaction force in the generator winding causing it to be harder to turn the rotor therefore more energy being input via a gas engine or whatever kind of generator you are using. The kromrey converter, as it is called, also has the effect that the more energy you use on the output the colder the machine gets.

One thing that helps people wrap there head around how this stuff is "different" is the understanding that normal conventional electrical work is a positive pressure. Where negative force (whatever you want to call it) is "compressed" in one pole of a battery and positive force is "compressed" into the positive. when they are allowed to equalize through a load both sides are "discharging" the accumulated positive or negative charges from the battery into the load and the reaction is heat. In the radiant electricity the negative pole is discharged to become a "vacuum" for negative charge and the positive is discharged to create a vacuum for positive charge. when they are equalized through a load they actually discharge (the charge in the load) into the battery not from the battery....the reaction is cold.
 
I am not here to argue or prove what I am working on. I have seen the effects caused by this "different" form of electricity I don't need anymore proof and i don't need you to believe me to continue studying it. Just as I am not asking anyone to do research for me and simply help me with pointers. I will not do research for you or try to prove it to you. If you decide its a crock pot full of conspiracy crap....that's fine you may have your opinion.

Having said that .... I am NOT here to explain why I am researching whatever, and be talked down to from a [soapbox]. You can answer this question to yourself....have you experimented with any of these devices or have any knowledge, at all, about how they work or tested anything yourself when it comes to this. Or is your opinion based on what you read on google somewhere. Basically making it someone else's opinion that you have copied and state as fact because you truly have no idea.

 On another note....most heat pumps put out more heat than the energy you put into them. So if you cannot ever get more out than you put in please explain that to me.

and also there is this http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/10/11/multiple-scientists-confirm-the-reality-of-free-energy-heres-the-proof/

country4life89

Can you please tell us your electronics, programming, Arduino, hardware experience?

Sure, I started messing with electronics at a very young age because my mother was a technician in the air force and always had electronics books laying around. From there I tinkered with everything from potato clocks to high power Tesla coils and the like. At 17 I joined the navy as an electronics technician specializing in radar/communications/and microscopic circuit board repair I advance to E-5 in 3 and a half years, mostly due to saving a crap ton of money by repairing circuits instead of buying new circuit boards. I now work for a communications company working on pretty much anything I can figure out. Mainly troubleshooting and repairing radios for police, fire, ems, and pretty much anybody else that would have a radio. We also do access control systems phone systems and camera systems.

As for the arduino I have a few years experience but can easily admit writing codes is not my strong suit. As I stated before I struggle with ADHD and medication I take only lasts about 5 hours and I work 9 hour days. So by the time I get home inability to focus is a real problem. circuits I know so it doesn't take a lot of focus to figure out. But writing a code with functions I have never used before takes me a while because my brain works on the "why". Most references tell you what a code does but never explains the "why". for instance the delay subject for the oled display. I have absolutely no understanding of why that is there or if it is necessary and searching for the reasoning behind it just gets me to a bunch of pages with examples that still leave me in the same place.

I would guesstimate I have written about 20 arduino sketches over the few years. I would say maybe 5 slightly complex ones but nothing super fancy at all.

As for the hardware, Not really sure what you mean by that. I do know a good bit about machining welding, and physically building things. I have an IQ of 147 and I do not mean that to be cocky at all because i am just not that kind of person. I just simply mean that I have the brains to figure out pretty much anything that my attention span will allow me to learn. writing sketches seems to be one of those roadblocks for me. 

TomGeorge

#17
Mar 09, 2018, 04:05 am Last Edit: Mar 09, 2018, 04:07 am by TomGeorge
Hi,
If you look at the code posted in post #1, it is a good start to getting a good reliable tacho reading.

It is coded so you can do other processes such as calculate, control and display an output to activate your MOSFET and still get sensor readings.
You may want to add an analog input connected to a potentiometer to use a an input to set your delay time.

What voltage are you using on the solenoid and how much current does it consume?
The MOSFET characteristics will depend on the load characteristics.

What model arduino are you using?

Tom...... :)
Everything runs on smoke, let the smoke out, it stops running....

wvmarle

I hear a whole lot of excuses of why it doesn't work/scale/is available, but no good explanation of why it does work. Only that Tesla saw "a purple glow" and it could not be explained by science.

There are two things that strike me right away. The effect is supposed to work on the nanosecond level, or sub-nanosecond time. Human eyes don't react that fast, it's impossible to observe such events.

Secondly, there was A LOT that could not be explained by science in Tesla's time. Electricity itself, for example, is something that at the time wasn't exactly well explained - Tesla is one of the persons that really advanced that science. So if he saw something he couldn't explain, doesn't mean it can't be explained. Science has gone a lot further since Tesla's time, but we're certainly far from explaining everything that's out there. We've come a long way for sure but until we get rid of "dark energy" and "dark matter" that are now cluttering cosmic models we know we've got quite a way to go on probably both the atomic/quantum and cosmic levels. We haven't been able to explain how quantum level events effect the working of the cosmos, either.

If it's 50% (or even 5%) of free energy, the scale doesn't matter any more. Just use that free energy to produce more of them. It's exponential so very soon you're churning out huge numbers of those devices.
Quality of answers is related to the quality of questions. Good questions will get good answers. Useless answers are a sign of a poor question.

Paul_KD7HB

Perhaps there are relays that can switch in such a short time. I have not had one in many years, but there are "polar relays" that were used in the old teletype equipment. Ran 60 ma. current through the coils and the SPDT contacts did a great job of recreating tty signal. I think they ran perhaps 100 VDC.

Another relay may be some vacuum relays are capable of keeping up with sending Morse code.

Paul

country4life89

Tom, One more for you. If you have a transformer with the primary hooked with a capacitor and a tank circuit at resonance, and the secondary of that transformer with a light bulb and capacitor in series connected as tank circuit through the light bulb. If that secondary is tuned to resonate at the same frequency. then when you crank the frequency up on the primary...at resonant frequency the current draw becomes zero and the light will be lit. THERE is your free light. The problem is to run any normal load it has to be tuned for the load....in a house the load changes all the time. In a motor the load changes all the time.  

Also if you have just a single coil at resonance at a high frequency the current draw "at true resonance" will be zero. but if you hold a fluorescent bulb next to the coil THERE is your light again.  

So back to my original statement....the stuff can be done. The problem is finding a device that can put out energy in the way we need it. hence my experimentation.


I hear a whole lot of excuses of why it doesn't work/scale/is available, but no good explanation of why it does work. Only that Tesla saw "a purple glow" and it could not be explained by science.

There are two things that strike me right away. The effect is supposed to work on the nanosecond level, or sub-nanosecond time. Human eyes don't react that fast, it's impossible to observe such events.

Secondly, there was A LOT that could not be explained by science in Tesla's time. Electricity itself, for example, is something that at the time wasn't exactly well explained - Tesla is one of the persons that really advanced that science. So if he saw something he couldn't explain, doesn't mean it can't be explained. Science has gone a lot further since Tesla's time, but we're certainly far from explaining everything that's out there. We've come a long way for sure but until we get rid of "dark energy" and "dark matter" that are now cluttering cosmic models we know we've got quite a way to go on probably both the atomic/quantum and cosmic levels. We haven't been able to explain how quantum level events effect the working of the cosmos, either.

If it's 50% (or even 5%) of free energy, the scale doesn't matter any more. Just use that free energy to produce more of them. It's exponential so very soon you're churning out huge numbers of those devices.
I did explain how it works....The one i started with works because of the battery chemistry and the effect of the spikes. So if you go buy a large battery bank and hook the thing up you will have your extra energy. You will spend a whole lot of money on being able to light a few lights for free but it works. That doesn't at all have an excuse in it....I do not feel the need to buy a massive battery bank to light a few lights when the FACT has been proven MEANING if you can do it a little then you should be able to do it alot when somebody like me actually frigin tries to figure it out instead of denying facts! holy crap if you people spent half as much time looking into things instead of just being negative you would see what im talking about but instead you sit here and tell me that everything i have seen and the proof i have is wrong because you have a bunch of knowledge about it without having ever tried it. You surely are smarter than that!

wvmarle

I did explain how it works....The one i started with works because of the battery chemistry and the effect of the spikes. So if you go buy a large battery bank and hook the thing up you will have your extra energy. You will spend a whole lot of money on being able to light a few lights for free but it works.
I'd love to see a battery sitting away from any power source and shining a light while increasing its charge level. Where can I go see one?

Until then, I will adhere to the laws of physics, including the law of preservation of energy. Well, and mass for that matter as we do know how to convert mass into energy and the other way around and are doing just that on massive scale already. And that's done without breaking the laws of physics.
Quality of answers is related to the quality of questions. Good questions will get good answers. Useless answers are a sign of a poor question.

country4life89

Hi,
If you look at the code posted in post #1, it is a good start to getting a good reliable tacho reading.

It is coded so you can do other processes such as calculate, control and display an output to activate your MOSFET and still get sensor readings.
You may want to add an analog input connected to a potentiometer to use a an input to set your delay time.

What voltage are you using on the solenoid and how much current does it consume?
The MOSFET characteristics will depend on the load characteristics.

What model arduino are you using?

Tom...... :)
I have one arduino MEGA 2560 and probably 5-6 UNO's

The original code I posted was only put together for the purpose of testing the oled because this is the first time i had a project I actually wanted to display. So I will be adding analog inputs with pots to adjust any delays as necessary. I will be taking a day or two to really run this through my head to decide what is the best way to move foreward then i will upload schematics pictures and the code to see if any of you know of any tweaks to make it better....or run at all if i fail miserably!


As for the solonoid, I was using a brushed contact on the generator at first and running it up to about 15 volts and my bench power supply read 0 for current. That is only because the duty cycle is so low that it doesn't even see it. when at full speed on 12 volts the 4 ohm drive coil draws an average of 100ma viewed on an analog panel meter. It draws amps obviously if connected straight to 12 volts but at top speed the pulsing of the analog meter will read about 100ma when the power supply digital readout says 0.

country4life89

#23
Mar 09, 2018, 04:48 am Last Edit: Mar 09, 2018, 04:54 am by country4life89
I'd love to see a battery sitting away from any power source and shining a light while increasing its charge level. Where can I go see one?

Until then, I will adhere to the laws of physics, including the law of preservation of energy. Well, and mass for that matter as we do know how to convert mass into energy and the other way around and are doing just that on massive scale already. And that's done without breaking the laws of physics.
#1 I never said anything about a battery sitting by itself charging up!

#2 Let me say this one more time....I am NOT here to prove anything to you!
answer this simple question for me.....if you have a resonant transformer like i stated before.....and there is NO current flowing into it "because physics says so thats how resonance works" then how and WHERE does the energy come from to light the light. PLEASE go grab a damn coil and capacitor and try it. When you can use your physics to explain to me how ZERO current flowing into a primary can light a light on a secondary...THEN I will respond to your post. Until you try "something" instead of telling me its not possible I will no longer respond to your negativity.

#3 how much energy is preserved in a hydro electric damn. do we constantly pump thousands of watts into the damn. NO nature provides the power we simply store it up and give it a way to make electric. It is a fact in physics that there is energy in EVERYTHING. I am just using methods to get it that you have never tried and only questioned without any experience at all.

#4 I forgot one....use a timer of some sort to charge two capacitors in parallel from a battery then hook them in series and discharge back into the battery. do that at a 50/50 rate and watch what happens. this will be my last explanation on anything to to with radiant energy.

wvmarle

So you want to do sub-nanosecond switching and delays in the same order of magnitude, right?

How are you planning to pull that off using an Arduino (with a 62.5 ns clock pulse), and a brushed motor (with mechanical contacts taking time to make and break - probably much longer than for a relay).

It seems the system limits for timing are some 3-6 orders of magnitude off of where you want to be.

Oh, and I just realise: Tesla was purportedly trying to do this with a knife type switch. Why don't you start to replicate his experiments? At least you don't have to worry about nanosecond scales, as those switches will make and break in the microsecond scale or worse, and the principle was working for him, didn't it? Modem MOSFET switches are so much faster than Tesla's technology could ever be... and the time scales we can measure on have gone down at least that much as well. Tesla probably couldn't even get near millisecond resolutions.
Quality of answers is related to the quality of questions. Good questions will get good answers. Useless answers are a sign of a poor question.

wvmarle

#1 I never said anything about a battery sitting by itself charging up!
OK, with some kind of equipment attached to it, but I consider that an integral part of such a battery system. Call it a black box, good enough for now. Just a battery with a lamp that lights up the lamp without going dead, ever. Because that's what I understand you were claiming is possible (or a machine that uses one battery to charge up two more, and then those to charge up itself again or so). Just anything that demonstrates this free energy thing.

Quote
#2 Let me say this one more time....I am NOT here to prove anything to you!
I'm not asking you to prove anything. I'm just asking you for references to people that did prove it, and for whatever reason you seem completely unable to deliver just that. So besides that I'm highly skeptical of this being able to work in the first place, there apparently being no-one with a working demonstration out there makes me even more skeptical.

Quote
#3 how much energy is preserved in a hydro electric damn. do we constantly pump thousands of watts into the damn. NO nature provides the power we simply store it up and give it a way to make electric. It is a fact in physics that there is energy in EVERYTHING. I am just using methods to get it that you have never tried and only questioned without any experience at all.
That's a whole different thing than producing energy out of nothing. The energy from the dam comes from the water, water that was brought up there through the power of the sun. That's all fully scientifically explained and there's no doubt on the workings of it. Hence we have dams, and hydroelectric power.

Indeed I have no experience with your methods, but I do know a bit about science and electricity. That's why I'm questioning you on how it could possibly work. That's why I point out parts that I believe can not work - hoping for you to provide a clear explanation on where my knowledge is lacking and why it does work. So far you have failed to convince me. And that's OK, maybe I am totally wrong here, and that's the fun of science: being proven wrong and that way learn whole new parts of science. It's what makes science exciting.

You obviously know a lot more about the subject, which is why you are the one to provide an explanation on how it works. Formulas, scientific principles, references to demonstration projects, that kind of things all go a long way to me (and other readers here) understanding the thing you're trying to do, and how it works. I'm really looking forward to see all that scientific proof.
Quality of answers is related to the quality of questions. Good questions will get good answers. Useless answers are a sign of a poor question.

country4life89

To clear up one thing I do not want to be switching in the nanosecond range....I wanted the "connection" to happen as fast and "clean" as possible while being able to handle the SPIKE. as stated before this SPIKE is what these generators make on purpose and they are deadly to semiconductors. BACK-EMF is NOT the spike. Back-emf is a reverse electromotive force, when a north pole magnet approaches a coil, the electricity induced in the coil if allowed to flow will cause a north magnetism in the coil causeing resistance to the magnets motion. THAT is back-EMF.

The "spike" is an effect of an inductor when voltage is present and no current is yet flowing (when source dipole is connected to a coil) or when current is flowing and there is no source dipole (when the source is disconnected).  
So i desire a connection that is clean. at the very picosecond that a relay contact touches the other contact it has the source voltage even if it is not completely smashed against the other contact it still has the entire source voltage connected the instant it touches even a microscopic amount. If one contact is "12 volts" and the other is "ground" then even a very microscopic connection is still a 12 volt potential being "instantly" connected. in a semiconductor even switching at nanosecond speeds, if you have a fast enough scope it would still show a "build" up to 12 volts. because the pn junctions have to be filled. The time it takes the relay to go from the initial first touch to full closure is irrelevant because the "event" will happen during that first touch. but if there is no way to switch a relay fast enough then thats out.

I think if i switch to a two magnet rotor and use lower voltages the top speed would be lower allowing me to have the test i want without having to be nearly as precise. I also am probably going to just do away with the display idea and opt for just a serial connection so i can plot the data. It also seems like the display would cause more issues with the timing.

I apologize for getting off track and having this whole forum post turn into a bunch of crap about energy instead of the point witch is the arduino code that will make it possible. Thank you all for your time I will check back in when i have some solid plan and idea of how to proceed. Truly appreciate all the input!

country4life89

WVmarle I PMed please keep any further discussion on this thread to the topic. Anybody that wants to ask me questions about the other aspects feel free to pm me.

wvmarle

So i desire a connection that is clean. at the very picosecond that a relay contact touches the other contact it has the source voltage even if it is not completely smashed against the other contact it still has the entire source voltage connected the instant it touches even a microscopic amount.
Science as we know it doesn't agree.

The charge at relay contacts is not confined to the surface of the relay. The electrons form an electric field around the relay contacts, which has an actual size away from it. On top of that the atoms that make up the relay contacts have an electron cloud around them. So on a picosecond scale, those electrical fields will interact with each other as the contact closes well before the contacts make physical contact (as we call it - and even that is in fact to the electrical fields of the atoms on both sides repelling each other so strong they can't move closer).

Those interacting fields mean there is never an absolutely sub-atomic level point where the electrical field has this 12V potential difference (which what you appear to try to describe). It is spread out over the different atoms in range - probably spreading at light speed, and with the electrical fields of the contacts being able to sense each other very well when the relay is open, and physics getting in the way, there's just no way to get them to close fast enough to see any real effect. The fields push each other away as the contacts of the relay approach, and by the time they're close enough to make electrical contact (which is NOT the same as physical contact) the potential over the relay contacts has dropped to zero already.

This are image from someone who put relays to the test. Scroll down about 3/4 of the page for voltages seen by a scope as a relay is closing. You will notice that even on microsecond scales this is not instant, in both opening and closing. As it's such a large time scale that's not a scope artifact, scopes are much faster than that. There are more such reports available online, he's not the only one, just one that came up on top on a Google search.
Quality of answers is related to the quality of questions. Good questions will get good answers. Useless answers are a sign of a poor question.

country4life89

Even if you use a scope you are watching the effect of current flow.....I am looking for the effect before the current flows....you are not going to even take a second to think about what im saying because your blinded by your textbooks. test something yourself and let me know. I am seriously done even responding to you.

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