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Topic: Best compact approach for Monorail stair climbing Lift (Read 661 times) previous topic - next topic

mi1400

Dear friends,
I am envisioning a lift system for elderlies in my inlaws but struck me as eye opener as my own parents will be needing soon in 4-5 years.
after some 10 days of research i collected following terminologies
   High Torque Brushless Pinion Worm Stepper Actuator Reducer Servo Golf-Trolley Monorail Wheelchair Powerchair Guided Winch Hub 18v-Drill NEMA Motor Attic Penthouse Garage Base Floor Stairs Mounted Lift Climber
Now most techniques fail as i have 2nd batch/half of stairs turning at 90-degrees, so the guided-monorail-track should either be...
1. mounted on side wall at elbow height curving gracefully at every 90-degree turn
2. mounted on base i.e monorail support after every few stairs
3. mounted in roof also because the roof is not very far/high except last 10 of 25 stairs section.
4. as above point-1 mounted on side wall but more like point-3 ... monorail will be at 6.5 feet parallel to stairs (center or center-right).. the wall at 90-degree turn in stairs will help as roof like support and wall with bottom stair as other end monorail support

I fully understand PULL/PUSH and LIFT are entirely different. Even pulling at 45-degree is not lifting.

I partially understand stepper motor like even NEMA-42 may not lift a 120-kg man (+ 5-10kg for seat and mounting) and also may not pull/drag him on 45-degree pinion-monorail-system. plus on electric failure the motor might go free and cause devastating slide.
I partially understand the "lifting" (not pulling) Winch motor is best for this task as it applies inbuilt brakes upon electric failure/outage. 440-500 lbs lifting winches from FiveOceans etc

I need help in above understandings and which of following approaches to choose!?!
1. Take 18v drill motor from Bosch etc... but would 2Amp mini compact rotary/grinder tools be OK or i pair 2 of such drills 1 on each side of pinion. these drills dont have pistol-like-grip so easy to mount. What diameter of pinion on each motor to maximize torque!?!
2. Take 18v drill motor from Bosch etc... use 3Amp to 4Amp rotary/grinder tool/drill without pistol-like-grip... but 1 of such drill cost $200 approx .. would 1 be sufficient!?! 3Amp or 4Amp one!?!. What diameter of pinion on each motor to maximize torque!?!
3. Go for lifting winch (not pulling winch) ... its the best i can think, costs just $100, has inbuilt brakes safety i guess and i guess most ppl on this forum will advice this solution but the fat motor (in FiveOceans etc) will aesthetically look ugly and might not result in a compact foldable seat design. "Warn PullzAll" is exception but $190.
4. Go for NEMA-42 ... i have fallen in love at first sight, compact looks and love-lines ... it has 4200oz-inch,8A output but i guess to build a 150-200kg system 2 NEMA-42 would be needed to get 8000oz-inch !?! plus the fall/brakes protection and Pinion diameter!?!
5. Enertion skateboard motor. YouTube video watch at 1min;30sec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eym2qU2wEA0 "DIY Lightweight Lithium Powered Wheelchair Build part 3_ planning motor and axles".. same point-4 questions
6. Handyman-Jack, Bumper-Lift, Hi-Lift Jack, High-Lift Jack but an 18-feet twisting turning system and manual hand gear system.
7. all other solutions costs $2000-$3000 .. chain-rubber tracked wheelchair, and all types of indoor monorail stair climbing lifts
8. Spiked Snow chain Tendon belts on wheelchair wheels ... but puts all the force on person pulling the guy in wheelchair ... stair climber racks/hand-trucks/trolly even with brakes in handle are also fail for this reason.

So guys what do u say? NEMA-42 way or FiveOceans lifting-winch way ... but it has to be on monorail as i dont have line of sight clearance to pull in one clean single stretch.
Is there any more powerful "compact" motor like say NEMA-52 or any other brand with brakes/fall-protection!?!

Thank you

mi1400

the 18v figure i caught is from here https://www.toolbusiness.co.uk/reviews/Warn-Drill-Winch-from-Arbil

"This winch will move bulky and heavy objects up to 227 Kgs using the power of a corded or cordless (18v and upwards is best) drill"

"I used an18v newish cordless drill driver and an older 650W corded drill for the pull so that I could compare results.
I expected the cordless drill to struggle a bit with the load but the winch gearing is such that it more or less keeps up a constant speed of wind that doesn't seem to stress the drill motor at all. There is no need to use low speed on the drill either."

Robin2

There are good reasons why a professional solution costs $000 - you can sue the manufacturer if it fails and your elderly in-law is injured.

To my mind building a safe mechanical system for a stair lift is far beyond the scope of this Forum. Even if somebody does give advice (including this advice) how do you know that it is not rubbish?

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.


mi1400

I guess the 2 replies are typical "welcome aboard" msgs one encounter on entrance to any new forum.. i bet both were written from outside US. anyway thanks, looking forward for further input on tech (instead morals) , specially targeting the 3 questions i saught at closing of my post.

p.s:
i wish the tech guys in my quoted youtube video would have first watched ur quoted youtube video...

Robin2

i bet both were written from outside US.
That's a very interesting comment

Does it imply that people in the US are less safety conscious?



...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

mi1400

No they are more "enthusiast" !!!

ENERTION video i quoted was not made by any "less" safety conscious ppl...

i guess less move ahead and focus on requested questions i made in bottom of original post..

P.S:
expeditionary, adventurous, exploring-by-living-it are some more terms if i could use.

Robin2

i guess less move ahead and focus on requested questions i made in bottom of original post..
They seem to me to be mechanical engineering questions which, as I said earlier, are beyond the scope of this Forum.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

jackrae

Why not cut a hole in the floor and build a lifting platform - a much simpler technical problem

mi1400

yes I've seen those.. but in my part of world we have concrete floors n roofs.. 1 solution to complement urs is twisted vertical monorail which maneuvers through the gap between 2 sets of stairways.. say u sit attached to vertical monorail facing west n as rail motor starts ascending, at 5 feet the rail metal twists 90 degree so u get right at the first set stairways facing east.. as motors ascends 5 feet more the rail metal again twists 90 degree so u get right on the 2nd/last section of stairs facing west again.. the twisting is basically to avoid colliding with 2nd set of stairway from underside.

problem here is that the top support of vertical monorail beam has to go all way up to roof of 2nd floor to rest/bolted.. it will make rail 30feet, weeker n susceptible to earthquakes..

mi1400

dear jackrae very pleased n thankful to see u n serious contributions trickling in.. i mostly need help in knowing..
1. Does NEMA/stepper motors freeze/grip then n there when power disconnects or the motor goes free?..
2. I m sure Enertion is free motor only for horizontal displacements hence brakes mechanism needs to added by maybe reversing polarity.. but regardless of this can it lift 100kg?..I've see racing such skateboards uphill with 100kg guy but uphill race is still not "lifting".. here my concept is clear. just to know; can 2 paired enertion motors lift 100-170kg? or how much kgs it/two-paired could?
3. Do I need 2 NEMA-42 to lift 150-200kg.. is 4200oz-inch correct power of 1 NEMA-42? do the gears save from reverse travel on power outage or not until polarity of power is reversed?
3. Is there any compact motor than 500lbs lift version of FiveOceans lifting winch on Amazon/ebay? instead of round fat motor? i m really dying for NEMA-42 type solution.
4. Can someone point me to monorail types, locking, strengths i could calculate online?

mi1400

in my reply #9 i need to also add that i live in rented home, else i would have broken my concrete floor too.. i also considered to mount monorail with outside wall but thats taboo/awkward/disrespect here.. it has to be inside solution.

mi1400

$100
Five Oceans 440 LB. Overhead Electric Hoist Crane - BC 3780 - - Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WBVUC3G/

$157
Amazon.com_ Warn 885000 Corded PullzAll 120V AC_ Automotive
https://www.amazon.com/Warn-885000-Corded-PullzAll-120V/dp/B0043OV0IA/


$190
Amazon.com_ Warn 885001 PullzAll Hand Held Electric Pulling Tool Corded 120V CSA 1000 lb. Capacity PullzAll Hand Held Electric Pulling Tool
https://www.amazon.com/Warn-885001-PullzAll-Electric-Capacity/dp/B0097SU8HG/

justone

Quote
in my reply #9 i need to also add that i live in rented home, else i would have broken my concrete floor too.. i also considered to mount monorail with outside wall but thats taboo/awkward/disrespect here.. it has to be inside solution.
If instead YOU owned the property would YOU allow this "expeditionary, adventurous, exploring-by-living-it"

mishmash to happen?

YOU have brought this up with the landlord and he is OK with it?

mi1400

another outside US comment .. thanks justone for property advice on robotics forum.

Dear jackrae very pleased n thankful to see u n serious contributions trickling in.. i mostly need help in knowing..
1. Does NEMA/stepper motors freeze/grip then n there when power disconnects or the motor goes free?..
2. I m sure Enertion is free motor only for horizontal displacements hence brakes mechanism needs to added by maybe reversing polarity.. but regardless of this can it lift 100kg?..I've see racing such skateboards uphill with 100kg guy but uphill race is still not "lifting".. here my concept is clear. just to know; can 2 paired enertion motors lift 100-170kg? or how much kgs it/two-paired could?
3. Do I need 2 NEMA-42 to lift 150-200kg.. is 4200oz-inch correct power of 1 NEMA-42? do the gears save from reverse travel on power outage or not until polarity of power is reversed?
3. Is there any compact motor than 500lbs lift version of FiveOceans lifting winch on Amazon/ebay? instead of round fat motor? i m really dying for NEMA-42 type solution.
4. Can someone point me to monorail types, locking, strengths i could calculate online?

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