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Topic: Calling all US registered voters! (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

chummer1010

Feb 04, 2019, 02:48 pm Last Edit: Feb 04, 2019, 03:21 pm by chummer1010
Hey all,

I am working on a school project in which I am going to apply various fields of engineering to prototype an improved American voting system to improve voter security across the country. I am currently in the researching stage and created a survey to find data trends by state regarding voting requirements and overall feeling of security.



In the US, especially during the recent midterm election (state governors, senators, etc), there were multiple allegations of fraudulent activity within the system. In addition, voter ID laws in the US are quite inconsistent from state to state, and contain very relaxed requirements. The results of this survey will help me determine how American citizens feel about the current voting situation, and help me see their experiences.


The more responses, the better the data, so if you are a US registered voter I would greatly appreciate if you could take the time to fill this survey out! :) It should only take a couple minutes.

If you are not from the United States, I would love to hear how the voting process is ran for those of you in other countries worldwide! If you have any questions/comments feel free to ask!

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/M9TKW6H

Thank you very much,

Marco
#include <signature.h>

larryd

We need to be on voter list (created from senses).
If not on list you need picture I.D.

With all the gerrymandering in the states, a minority vote in the US can easily win.


No technical PMs.
If you are asked a question, please respond with an answer.
If you are asked for more information, please supply it.
If you need clarification, ask for help.

Henry_Best

Here, in the UK the system is:

The local authority is required by law to make and maintain an up to date register of electors. This is a public document, usually viewable at the local library. They do this by sending each household a registration form annually. The form can be posted back (free of charge) or can be completed online.
Failure to register on the electoral roll or supplying false information can result in a £1000 fine.
The form asks the nationality of all people in the household over 16 years old. The voting age is 18, but there may be an election after the register is published and the person has reached 18 on or before the date of the election.
The nationality is required to determine which elections the person is entitled to vote in. UK and Irish nationals are eligible to vote in all elections (we have a reciprocal arrangement with the Republic of Ireland. I can and have voted in an Irish election when I lived there), EU nationals are eligible to vote in only some elections (local authority and EU parliamentary, but not national parliamentary elections). I don't know how this will change after the proposed brexit. Obviously, we won't have EU parliamentary elections.

At the polling station, you are only required to provide your name and address so that it can be checked that you are on the register and are entitled to vote. No ID is required. Your name is then ticked on the register so that you cannot vote more than once. If your name is not on the register you cannot vote.

You may apply for a postal vote if, for instance, you are housebound or not going to be in the area on the day of the election. Postal votes are scrutinised carefully, as these have been the vehicle for fraud in the past.

Coding Badly


Marking Texas as "photo ID requested" is disingenuous.


chummer1010

Marking Texas as "photo ID requested" is disingenuous.


That graphic came from the National Congress of State Legislatures - http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

Why would you say that? Is the requirement more or less than described?
#include <signature.h>

Coding Badly

#5
Feb 04, 2019, 09:57 pm Last Edit: Feb 04, 2019, 10:00 pm by Coding Badly
Is the requirement more or less than described?
Texas does a good job of documenting state laws.  I encourage you to do your own research instead of taking the word of some schmuck on the internet.  Which appears to include the National Congress of State Legislatures.

Why would you say that?
Photo ID is required except when the voter can prove a hardship that prevents getting a state-issued-but-not-college photo ID.  In other words, for the vast majority of Texans, especially college students, photo ID is a requirement.  "Strict Photo ID" is a more accurate description.

I should have included: "voting in person".  However, the last time I tried to vote absentee the state failed to send a ballot.  From my perspective, voting in person is required to actually participate.


chummer1010

#6
Feb 05, 2019, 04:16 am Last Edit: Feb 05, 2019, 04:16 am by chummer1010
Texas does a good job of documenting state laws.  I encourage you to do your own research instead of taking the word of some schmuck on the internet.  Which appears to include the National Congress of State Legislatures.

Photo ID is required except when the voter can prove a hardship that prevents getting a state-issued-but-not-college photo ID.  In other words, for the vast majority of Texans, especially college students, photo ID is a requirement.  "Strict Photo ID" is a more accurate description.

I should have included: "voting in person".  However, the last time I tried to vote absentee the state failed to send a ballot.  From my perspective, voting in person is required to actually participate.


Thank you very much! This kinda info is just what I was hoping for when doing this survey. Getting perspectives from citizens who experienced the voting process first-hand is essential to developing a solution.

It's interesting enough that after looking at the data already collected, this graphic stated that NY only required a matching signature. However the results showed an almost even split between nothing, matching sig, and photo-id.

Perhaps this means that a large issue is inconsistency.
#include <signature.h>

ardly

Mandatory reading;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida

Mandatory viewing;
Go to Youtube, search for "cgp grey electoral college" and take a look at all the videos on voting schemes e.g. "The Problems with First Past the Post"

Postal voting is of course wide open to abuse, an individual may dominate a household and gangs can coerce larger numbers.

Electronic voting is problematic because the counting is invisible and software could be rigged, manual checking needs to be possible.

Photo ID only proves that somebody has ID that has their photo on it, it does not prove that the ID is valid or that the person is actually entitled to vote.

Voting sounds simple but once you get into it it is hugely complicated particularly wen just 537 votes can swing a Presidential election.


"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

chummer1010

Failure to register on the electoral roll or supplying false information can result in a £1000 fine.
So it is required for every citizen to register?

The nationality is required to determine which elections the person is entitled to vote in. UK and Irish nationals are eligible to vote in all elections (we have a reciprocal arrangement with the Republic of Ireland. I can and have voted in an Irish election when I lived there), EU nationals are eligible to vote in only some elections (local authority and EU parliamentary, but not national parliamentary elections). I don't know how this will change after the proposed brexit. Obviously, we won't have EU parliamentary elections.
When you say EU nationals, are you referring to UK citizens that are from elsewhere in the EU? Or is citizenship not required to vote?
#include <signature.h>

chummer1010

Mandatory reading;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida

Mandatory viewing;
Go to Youtube, search for "cgp grey electoral college" and take a look at all the videos on voting schemes e.g. "The Problems with First Past the Post"

Postal voting is of course wide open to abuse, an individual may dominate a household and gangs can coerce larger numbers.

Thank you for the links! I have indeed dug a lot of research of allegations across quite a few states of tampered absentee ballots; this is something that I've struggled to brainstorm of a solution for.

Electronic voting is problematic because the counting is invisible and software could be rigged, manual checking needs to be possible.

Photo ID only proves that somebody has ID that has their photo on it, it does not prove that the ID is valid or that the person is actually entitled to vote.

Interestingly enough, I just discovered that the country of Estonia has an e-voting system that 30% of citizens use, along with 99% of their public services available online as well... Whether those numbers are true or not, and what services actually are provided online is beyond me (I have to look into this more).

My leading idea at the moment is to implement a system where you have to scan your ID to cast your vote. Police officers can run your drivers license for car information; I feel like there could be a way to use this idea in voting (hopefully minimally invasive).
#include <signature.h>

Qdeathstar

#10
Feb 06, 2019, 05:15 am Last Edit: Feb 06, 2019, 05:15 am by Qdeathstar
You don't rig the system you rig the people. Eg, "you don't gotta burn the books you just remove them"


Come on guys..... has russia tought you nothing! Fake News!!!!
A creaking creeping shadow
stiff against the freezing fog
glares at a tickless watch.

Time has failed him -- all things shall pass.

Qdeathstar

#11
Feb 06, 2019, 05:24 am Last Edit: Feb 06, 2019, 05:28 am by Qdeathstar
Quote
My leading idea at the moment is to implement a system where you have to scan your ID to cast your vote. Police officers can run your drivers license for car information; I feel like there could be a way to use this idea in voting (hopefully minimally invasive).

For me, you are creating a solution without a problem.  In fact, most of the "voting fraud" that has been been verified, and not just Trumped™️ up, involves not counting votes that should have been counted. Eg, destroying absentee ballots.  Not some miasma of phantom votes creeping out from the ether realm into republican nightmares. Why not just do what the afghans did, finger dip to vote. Low tech and effective.
A creaking creeping shadow
stiff against the freezing fog
glares at a tickless watch.

Time has failed him -- all things shall pass.

Qdeathstar

Also, i did not need my ID to vote in VA in the midterms or presidential elections...
A creaking creeping shadow
stiff against the freezing fog
glares at a tickless watch.

Time has failed him -- all things shall pass.

chummer1010


For me, you are creating a solution without a problem.  In fact, most of the "voting fraud" that has been been verified, and not just Trumped™️ up, involves not counting votes that should have been counted.
Also, i did not need my ID to vote in VA in the midterms or presidential elections...
See that right there I feel is the issue. As of right now, the survey results show only 19% of people had to show an ID to vote... Of course the majority of whatever voter fraud is going to go un reported/noticed and not appear like a big issue...

Also I just wanted to say this is in no way in support of the Trump train, and whatever he's spewing out ab voter fraud; I hope that people (both dems and republicans) don't associate this project with right wing motives...
#include <signature.h>

ardly

You don't rig the system you rig the people. Eg, "you don't gotta burn the books you just remove them"
....
Yes and no. Chosing the system rigs the whole thing. First past the Post voting ensures that power will oscillate between two parties and the majority of people don't usually get what they want. Proportional Voting, in various forms, has its pros and cons. A higher legislature can impose Proportinal Voting on a lower legislature as means of rigging the system to pretty much ensure the lower legislature is always hung and so cannot pose a threat.

Gerrymandering is of course a classic way to rig the results.


....
Interestingly enough, I just discovered that the country of Estonia has an e-voting system that 30% of citizens use, along with 99% of their public services available online as well... Whether those numbers are true or not, and what services actually are provided online is beyond me (I have to look into this more).
...
Estonia has gone all out on e-voting etc.
You can even become an e-resident of Estonia.
https://e-resident.gov.ee/become-an-e-resident/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIktLl6YGn4AIV6BXTCh2ixg5aEAAYASAAEgLiffD_BwE

However they were subject to a large scale cyber attack by Russia.
Also if you don't have physical votes how do you know the system was not hacked, how do you have a recount?

As for Driver's Licences, not everybody has them. Also the aim of a Driver's licence is to prove a person has passed a driving test it does not necessarily prove that person is not a fake identity - though that sort of thing is not going to occcur on a large scale.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

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