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Topic: Looking for a brilliant idea to manage double rotary + push (Read 762 times) previous topic - next topic

skatospag

Hi,

I am working on a connected lamp using an Arduino, on which I am using 2 big rotary cylinders to manually control the lights brightness.
Illustrations attached.

Making these buttons works electronically is tricky, I would need 2 encoders.
I have found a "dual shaft encoder with push" here https://goo.gl/rFissh, but then assembly is a pain. :(

The best solution might be to read the rotations  of the encoder from the outside.
The cylinders are composed of solid metal aluminium tubes.

Any smart idea ?

Paul_KD7HB

Hi,

I am working on a connected lamp using an Arduino, on which I am using 2 big rotary cylinders to manually control the lights brightness.
Illustrations attached.

Making these buttons works electronically is tricky, I would need 2 encoders.
I have found a "dual shaft encoder with push" here https://goo.gl/rFissh, but then assembly is a pain. :(

The best solution might be to read the rotations  of the encoder from the outside.
The cylinders are composed of solid metal aluminium tubes.

Any smart idea ?
Sorry, your illustrations don't help a bit for me to understand how rotating aluminum tubes can vary a light's brightness.

One way to measure the cylinder rotation would be to drill pin holes and have a light sensor count the light pulses.

Paul

MorganS

Why do they rotate? I would use a capacative sensor to detect a finger dragged across the sense area.
"The problem is in the code you didn't post."

dougp

I am working on a connected lamp using an Arduino, on which I am using 2 big rotary cylinders to manually control the lights brightness.
Why two cylinders?
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.  If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. - Niels Bohr

No private consultations undertaken!

skatospag

Thank you for your answers! Sorry it's har to explain. Here is a full picture of the 3D lamp.

This has been made by a designer so I can't modifiy its overall aspect.
So 2 cylinders they are : one for the brightness, one for the warmness, they are in metal and they should both rotate (around an encoder axis for example).

So I can't modify it to be something capacitive or tactile. Drilling pin holes would have been a great idea but it would also modify the external aspect  :smiley-confuse:

There is like 0,5mm between the 2 cilynders, that may let us use something like this : https://www.metallux-usa.com/products/membrane-sensors/membrane-sensor-rotary-metapot/
But it's hard to fine on the internet with precise diameter.




Paul_KD7HB

Thank you for your answers! Sorry it's har to explain. Here is a full picture of the 3D lamp.

This has been made by a designer so I can't modifiy its overall aspect.
So 2 cylinders they are : one for the brightness, one for the warmness, they are in metal and they should both rotate (around an encoder axis for example).

So I can't modify it to be something capacitive or tactile. Drilling pin holes would have been a great idea but it would also modify the external aspect  :smiley-confuse:

There is like 0,5mm between the 2 cilynders, that may let us use something like this : https://www.metallux-usa.com/products/membrane-sensors/membrane-sensor-rotary-metapot/
But it's hard to fine on the internet with precise diameter.




Now, that makes more sense. Your aluminum cylinders have nothing to do with "light". They vary some electrical parameter which may eventually do something with light. Actually saying "light" just confuses your posting.

Do you have room to add a wheel with a rubber tire to rotate when the cylinder it rotated? They would be inside the base of the lamp.

Paul

MorganS

Welcome to the real world where designers and engineers have difficulty talking to each other.

Is that thin black line between the cylinders the thickness of a PCB? That may actually be the PCB, if you pay extra for black PCB material. Then you have some hope of putting a regular shaft encoder there.

The pushbutton effect you mentioned earlier? Is that still required? Because then you need a bigger gap to allow them to actually move.

Another thread alerted me to this encoder at Pololu. This uses a magnet which has several magnetic regions arranged as spokes on a wheel. One of those will fit inside your aluminum cylinders and the aluminum won't distort the magnetism too much. Then just redesign the circuit board to flip it to the outside of the magnet.
"The problem is in the code you didn't post."

skatospag

Now, that makes more sense. Your aluminum cylinders have nothing to do with "light". They vary some electrical parameter which may eventually do something with light. Actually saying "light" just confuses your posting.

Do you have room to add a wheel with a rubber tire to rotate when the cylinder it rotated? They would be inside the base of the lamp.

Paul
Thanks Paul, you are right, the 2 cylinders should just be connected to an electronic system recording their rotation.
Yes I have LOT of free space inside the lamp and close to the aluminium cylinders. Largely enough to put 2 small wheels.

skatospag

Welcome to the real world where designers and engineers have difficulty talking to each other.

Is that thin black line between the cylinders the thickness of a PCB? That may actually be the PCB, if you pay extra for black PCB material. Then you have some hope of putting a regular shaft encoder there.

The pushbutton effect you mentioned earlier? Is that still required? Because then you need a bigger gap to allow them to actually move.

Another thread alerted me to this encoder at Pololu. This uses a magnet which has several magnetic regions arranged as spokes on a wheel. One of those will fit inside your aluminum cylinders and the aluminum won't distort the magnetism too much. Then just redesign the circuit board to flip it to the outside of the magnet.
Exactly :D :D
Between the 2 cylinders there is small space, probably enough for a PCB. The only thing is that integrating a regular encoder inside the button itself implies la lot of machining inside the cylinder. It's an option that might work, but probably the most expensive one.

But magnetic encoder can be a really good idea, I don't know how it work but I will have a deep look!

About the push button, it's no big deal as both cylinders can move together (there is only one push action) so the push button can be implemented below them.

dougp

What about the sensor from a laser mouse?  Non-contact and no moving parts.
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.  If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. - Niels Bohr

No private consultations undertaken!

skatospag

What about the sensor from a laser mouse?  Non-contact and no moving parts.
Yes why not, but not sure it can work on metal finish. I'll test it, do you know if their is something existing for Arduino ?

dougp

do you know if their is something existing for Arduino ?
I do not.

A cursory, no pun intended, web search found this.
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.  If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. - Niels Bohr

No private consultations undertaken!

MarkT

Exactly :D :D
Between the 2 cylinders there is small space, probably enough for a PCB. The only thing is that integrating a regular encoder inside the button itself implies la lot of machining inside the cylinder. It's an option that might work, but probably the most expensive one.

But magnetic encoder can be a really good idea, I don't know how it work but I will have a deep look!

About the push button, it's no big deal as both cylinders can move together (there is only one push action) so the push button can be implemented below them.
Magnetic encoders will require two PCBs as you can't have them on either side of a PCB, the fields
will almost certainly interact too much.  AS5045 or similar parts I've used before, and yes Al cylinders won't disrupt
magnetic fields at all - you need the special tranverse polarized magnets to go with the encoder and
work out the mechanical details of course.  Magnetic encoders are pretty much immune to dirt and dust.
My worry is how the bearings are going to work with such as arrangement.
[ I will NOT respond to personal messages, I WILL delete them, use the forum please ]

skatospag

Ok thank you guys for your answer.

The magnetic encoder seems the better idea right now as it seems easier to program than laser motion sensor.
https://ams.com/rmh05-dk-xx#tab/description

skatospag

Do you have room to add a wheel with a rubber tire to rotate when the cylinder it rotated? They would be inside the base of the lamp.

Paul
Paul, what was your idea using 2 wheels ? Encoders with a "rubber tire" as knobs ?

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