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Topic: avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding (Read 94250 times) previous topic - next topic

jetblack8033

#150
Nov 17, 2020, 12:51 pm Last Edit: Nov 17, 2020, 01:09 pm by jetblack8033
Hi everyone, hope you are all well and keeping safe!


This is my first time with UNO and I'm having the infamous error :) would much appreciate your input, google did not seem to help.


Regarding the specifics of my situation,


Setup
1. I'm running macOS Catalina 10.15.6 on MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019)
2. I have Arduino UNO R3, with ATMEGA328P-PU microcontroller
3. I'm connecting UNO to MacBook pro with "Ugreen" brand USB C to Type B Printer Scanner Cable (https://www.ugreen.com/products/usb-c-to-type-b-printer-scanner-cable?variant=32466568970302)
4. I don't have any wiring/shields/modules/circuits/etc. I'm just connecting the board. (Updated as Pert's comment)
5. Arduino IDE version 1.8.13

Reproducing the error
1. In Tools menu, the board is selected as "Arduino Uno" and port is selected as "/dev/cu.usbmodem14201 (Arduino Uno)"
2. I go to File -> Examples -> Basics -> Blink
3. Click "Upload" button
4. I receive the following error

avrdude: Version 6.3-20190619
         Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/
         Copyright (c) 2007-2014 Joerg Wunsch

         System wide configuration file is "/Applications/Arduino.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf"
         User configuration file is "/Users/jetblack8033/.avrduderc"
         User configuration file does not exist or is not a regular file, skipping

         Using Port                    : /dev/cu.usbmodem14201
         Using Programmer              : arduino
         Overriding Baud Rate          : 115200
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 1 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 2 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 3 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 4 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 5 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 6 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 7 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 8 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 9 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 10 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00

avrdude done.  Thank you.

Problem uploading to board.  See http://www.arduino.cc/en/Guide/Troubleshooting#upload for suggestions.




5. I also run the same command with 4 time -v option in "Terminal" application and receive the following error


 ~  /Applications/Arduino.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/bin/avrdude -C/Applications/Arduino.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf -v -v -v -v -patmega328p -carduino -P/dev/cu.usbmodem14201 -b115200 -D -Uflash:w:/var/folders/zz/r4rgbbjx4jg1v0qn20rwtyd40000gn/T/arduino_build_611352/Blink.ino.hex:i


avrdude: Version 6.3-20190619
         Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/
         Copyright (c) 2007-2014 Joerg Wunsch

         System wide configuration file is "/Applications/Arduino.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf"
         User configuration file is "/Users/jetblack8033/.avrduderc"
         User configuration file does not exist or is not a regular file, skipping

         Using Port                    : /dev/cu.usbmodem14201
         Using Programmer              : arduino
         Overriding Baud Rate          : 115200
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 1 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 2 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 3 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 4 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 5 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 6 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 7 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 8 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 9 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
avrdude: Send: 0 [30]   [20]
avrdude: ser_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 10 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00

avrdude done.  Thank you.




Best,
Jet

pert

If you have any wiring/shields/modules/circuits/etc. connected to your Uno, try removing them and uploading to the Uno alone to see whether they were interfering with the upload.

jetblack8033

Hi Pert, I don't have any wiring/shields/modules/circuits/etc. I'm just connecting the board.

TechGraphix

#153
Nov 28, 2020, 02:10 am Last Edit: Nov 28, 2020, 02:11 am by TechGraphix
Same problem here... I used my original UNO R3 for about a year now and suddenly this evening i had it too..
did the communication-test (RST>GND and TX > RX).. that works fine.. So the com-prt settings are right

can get all info from the board, like serialnumber etc..  The 13-led is blinking too
but even uploading the bareminimum (just void loop()) gives the error...  There is not a single wire attached to the uno, besides the USB-cable.

stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
stk500_getsync() attempt 10 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xab

Tried it on another Windows 10 computer: same problem..
When i place a programmed 328P, it does everything i programmed..
So short: i can't upload a prgram to the UNO although all comms have tested fine..
Guess there is no other thing to do than replace the UNO and use it, preprogrammed, for something else..

Or??????

Kees

pert

When i place a programmed 328P, it does everything i programmed..
Pleas provide a detailed description of how the ATmega328P was programmed.

niceslips

Hi, 

I'm getting following error messages and I've followed a load of the simple solutions I could find. 
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 8 of 10: not in sync: resp=0x00
I uploaded something earlier with no problem, and a few minutes later started to get this message.

I'm on a macbook running catalina and using an arduino uno. 

TechGraphix

Pleas provide a detailed description of how the ATmega328P was programmed.
The 328P was programmed before with the same Arduino Uno R3 (original Arduino) It reads an RTC and displays it on an Oled, in this case.. That works on this "defective" Arduino..   
It was programmed over the same USB-cable, with the same 1.8.13 Arduino program on the sam Windows 10 computer.

bethannw123

Hello -- 

I'm an engineering teacher, and I work with arduinos every year with my students.  This school year, due to COVID I created electronics project baggies for each of my students. Each baggy included an arduino appropriate for the students' project.  

After troubleshooting standard issues, all of my students were eventually able to upload code to their boards.  Over the course of the semester, however, 6+ students have gone from being able to upload code to receiving the same error message described below.    
</> 
Code: [Select]
Arduino: 1.8.10 (Windows 7), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Uno"

Sketch uses 3468 bytes (10%) of program storage space. Maximum is 32256 bytes.
Global variables use 306 bytes (14%) of dynamic memory, leaving 1742 bytes for local variables. Maximum is 2048 bytes.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr/bin/avrdude -CC:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr/etc/avrdude.conf -v -patmega328p -carduino -PCOM5 -b115200 -D -Uflash:w:C:\Users\ADMINI~1\AppData\Local\Temp\arduino_build_399939/tachometer.ino.hex:i

avrdude: Version 6.3-20190619
         Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/
         Copyright (c) 2007-2014 Joerg Wunsch

         System wide configuration file is "C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr/etc/avrdude.conf"

         Using Port                    : COM5
         Using Programmer              : arduino
         Overriding Baud Rate          : 115200
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 1 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 2 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 3 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 4 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 5 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 6 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 7 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 8 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 9 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4
avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
avrdude: stk500_getsync() attempt 10 of 10: not in sync: resp=0xb4

avrdude done.  Thank you.

Problem uploading to board.  See http://www.arduino.cc/en/Guide/Troubleshooting#upload for suggestions.

This report would have more information with
"Show verbose output during compilation"
option enabled in File -> Preferences.

It is difficult to troubleshoot with a student having the issue and myself not having the issue. We end up reading the forums and trying this over zoom.  Here are some (from memory) of the things all students have tried. 
1. Removing all wires from arduino. 
2. Unplugging and replugging arduino. 
3. Uninstalling and reinstalling arduino. 
4. Restarting arduino, restarting computer. 
5. Pressing reset button at various times as described by the forum. 
6. Ensuring Port is selected correctly. 
7. Ensuring Board is: Arduino Uno
8. Ensuring that Programmer is AVR mkII

Some times things like this were able to resolve the problem! So thank you! 

There are more things we have tried, but I can't remember everything. 

At a certain point, we run out of time and I have provided four students with new boards.  This forum also states that you need to determine whether it is the computer causing this or the board causing this error.  In these four cases the student was able to upload again with the new board, so the problem was the board. 

My question related to this is: how do these students go from functional uploading to AVRDUDE?  This is happening pretty frequently (6/20 students).  All on different types of devices.  

Now I'm out of unos.  I can't give anymore out.  I have two additional students who I have provided a new board to who are getting AVRDUDE on both boards! And each of them has a second computer and AVRDUDE is happening on both computers.  

I just finally got one of the students with AVRDude to bring me their old Board and I attempted the loopback test (passed--I thought this was hopeful), and I tried Burning the Bootloader.  I used these instructions:  

Try a loopback test:
  • Disconnect power from the board.
  • Remove all connections and shields from the board.
  • Force the processor to remain in reset by connecting a jumper wire from the RESET to the GND pin.
  • Connect a jumper from the RX pin (Arduino pin 0) to the TX pin (Arduino pin 1).
  • Connect the board to your computer.
  • Select the port of your board from the **Tools > Port** menu.
  • **Tools > Serial Monitor**
  • Type some text into the input field at the top of the Serial Monitor window.
  • Press Enter. If the text you typed is shown in Serial Monitor's output window, the loopback test passed. If the text was not shown, the loopback test failed.
  • Close Serial Monitor.
  • Disconnect the board from the computer.
  • Remove the two jumper wires.


If the loopback test failed, the USB to TTL serial adapter is damaged and it's unlikely to be worth repairing your board.

If the loopback test passed, or if you skipped the loopback test. Try doing a Burn Bootloader. You'll need an ISP programmer. If you don't own a programmer, you can use a spare Arduino board as an "Arduino as ISP" programmer:
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP
I received this error message:  
Code: [Select]
Arduino: 1.8.10 (Windows 10), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Uno"

Error while burning bootloader.
avrdude: Yikes!  Invalid device signature.
         Double check connections and try again, or use -F to override
         this check.

This report would have more information with
"Show verbose output during compilation"
option enabled in File -> Preferences.


I'm hoping for two answers here: 
1) Some possibilities of why this keeps happening when everything works ok initially.  
2) How to get past it/my next steps with this error.  I really hope I'm on the right track with this one. I did look this up but was not able to understand how to override. 

If you help me, you help my six students too, and future students! 

Here is a link to one of their sites where they document the project:  https://sites.google.com/drewcharterschools.org/andrewbotchwey/academics/10th-grade/pathways 

Thanks in advance. I hope I did the forum right.

pert

3. Uninstalling and reinstalling arduino.
8. Ensuring that Programmer is AVR mkII
These two have no chance of fixing this specific upload error. It doesn't do any harm, but I wouldn't recommend instructing students to do these thing because it only adds unnecessary complexity to the troubleshooting process.

I received this error message:
Please do this:
  • (In the Arduino IDE) File > Preferences
  • Check the checkbox next to "Show verbose output during: upload".
  • Click the "OK" button.
  • Tools > Burn Bootloader
  • After the Burn Bootloader process fails, you'll see a button on the right side of the orange bar: "Copy error messages". Click that button.
  • Paste the copied error message to a forum reply here.


Some possibilities of why this keeps happening when everything works ok initially.
Most likely they subjected the boards to conditions outside the rated specifications of the electronics (e.g., short circuit, drive a motor directly from an I/O pin), resulting in physical damage and/or corrupted flash memory.

I think some "magic smoke" is an inevitable part of the learning process. A balance must be struck between feeling feeling free to experiment and preserving limited resources. From my own experiences, I would guess that students are less likely to be careful with their class materials than the hobbyists, and even the hobbyists are likely to burn some hardware, especially in the early days.

I'm sure this is a difficult situation in the face of limited budget, but you need to assume this sort of thing is always going to happen and make plans for avoiding having it disrupt your process. Maybe that means having more spares on hand, or maybe it means requiring the students to replace the boards themselves.

2) How to get past it/my next steps with this error.  I really hope I'm on the right track with this one. I did look this up but was not able to understand how to override.
Hopefully the verbose error output will provide some information that will allow us to help you  get the burn bootloader process to work. However, burning the bootloader is only a solution if the contents of the flash memory was corrupted. It can never heal physical damage. So it's worth trying, but not at all guaranteed to fix the boards.

For hardware damage, if you have the Unos with the socketed ATmega328P, you could try replacing that chip. After doing that, you'll need to do a burn bootloader, since the factory-fresh chips don't have a bootloader. Removing the old chip without bending the pins is a bit tricky, but if the old chip is likely burned anyway it's not so much of a problem if it happens. You can get chip puller tools that make it a little easier, but it's only worth getting one if you're going to regularly be pulling socketed chips. Putting the new chip in is only a matter of bending the pins in just a little so that they are at a 90 degree angle to the chip (they come from the factory slightly splayed, which makes them not line up with the sockets).

CrossRoads

If you are not connecting a Programmer to the 2x3 ICSP header on the board, then selecting AVR MKii or anything else will not make a difference.
More than likely, some static electricity from dry winters homes is zapping the USB/Serial chip, or the 328P chip, or there is no bootloader installed, or the bootloader has become corrupted.
Feel the chip when it is powered up. Is it hot to the touch? That is another indication that something fried the chip.
The bootloader is the Programmer referred to in the "programmer is not responding" message - the 328P is not talking to the PC.

You could get a Programmer, like this one, and see if the bootloader on the non-working boards can be restored.
Also, measure the 3.3V and 5V on the power header, see it the board has good power.
https://www.pololu.com/product/3172
Designing & building electrical circuits for over 25 years.  Screw Shield for Mega/Due/Uno,  Bobuino with ATMega1284P, & other '328P & '1284P creations & offerings at  my website.

bethannw123

Hi Pert, Thanks. 
Regarding uninstalling and reinstalling: 

I am still learning this forum (I'm not sure how to snip small bits of your text like you did mine).  Thanks for the advice. Somewhere within this forum there were some users recommending trying 1.8.4 to address this issue and I recall now that that was something we tried. 

Regarding AVRmkII --sounds great, we will avoid that moving forward. 

Here is the result of my verbose output when attempting to Burn the Bootloader: 
Code: [Select]
Arduino: 1.8.10 (Windows 10), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Uno"

C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr/bin/avrdude -CC:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr/etc/avrdude.conf -v -patmega328p -cstk500v1 -PCOM8 -b19200 -e -Ulock:w:0x3F:m -Uefuse:w:0xFD:m -Uhfuse:w:0xDE:m -Ulfuse:w:0xFF:m

avrdude: Version 6.3-20190619
         Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/
         Copyright (c) 2007-2014 Joerg Wunsch

         System wide configuration file is "C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr/etc/avrdude.conf"

         Using Port                    : COM8
         Using Programmer              : stk500v1
         Overriding Baud Rate          : 19200
         AVR Part                      : ATmega328P
         Chip Erase delay              : 9000 us
         PAGEL                         : PD7
         BS2                           : PC2
         RESET disposition             : dedicated
         RETRY pulse                   : SCK
         serial program mode           : yes
         parallel program mode         : yes
         Timeout                       : 200
         StabDelay                     : 100
         CmdexeDelay                   : 25
         SyncLoops                     : 32
         ByteDelay                     : 0
         PollIndex                     : 3
         PollValue                     : 0x53
         Memory Detail                 :

                                  Block Poll               Page                       Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  MaxW   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ----- ---------
           eeprom        65    20     4    0 no       1024    4      0  3600  3600 0xff 0xff
           flash         65     6   128    0 yes     32768  128    256  4500  4500 0xff 0xff
           lfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
           hfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
           efuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
           lock           0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
           calibration    0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0     0     0 0x00 0x00
           signature      0     0     0    0 no          3    0      0     0     0 0x00 0x00

         Programmer Type : STK500
         Description     : Atmel STK500 Version 1.x firmware
         Hardware Version: 2
         Firmware Version: 1.18
         Topcard         : Unknown
         Vtarget         : 0.0 V
         Varef           : 0.0 V
         Oscillator      : Off
         SCK period      : 0.1 us

avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x000000 (retrying)

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x000000 (retrying)

Error while burning bootloader.
Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x000000
avrdude: Yikes!  Invalid device signature.
         Double check connections and try again, or use -F to override
         this check.


avrdude done.  Thank you.


Regarding what is causing this and your suggestions: 

I tend to agree with you that it is generally students just not knowing exactly where to place their wires, and accidentally placing them in the wrong place and attempting to run their robots or just placing them in the wrong place temporarily.  The other reason I was thinking this could be the issue is the sophomores are doing a battery powered project and the juniors are doing all of their power from the A-B Cable, and the sophomores (using external power) are the only class experiencing this specific error. 

Yes, I think in the future I will tell my students that if they destroy a board, they will need to replace it themselves so they better pay close attention to the wiring diagrams.  This question may go into the hardware forum (let me know if this is not appropriate) but is there a list somewhere of "what not to do" for beginners? Like the examples you stated but more comprehensive? 

I could try to replace the 328P Chip! I like that idea: I believe this is the correct product and it is only $2.08! 

Thank you for the input.  I'm looking forward to hearing of there are any next steps from the verbose output, but I believe I have read those 0x000000s are no good. 

What about the students who have a new board and are still getting this same error? 

bethannw123

Thanks Crossroads!  

Ok, so the programmer doesn't affect the upload.  Got it!  

And I checked and the chip is not hot. 

And I created a quick voltmeter using this: https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub/next-tech-lab/voltmeter-using-arduino-00e7d1 because I don't have one at home and I found:  

The 5V Pin is reading 4.83V!
The 3.3V Pin is reading 0V!  

I looked at the programmer that you sent.  I don't think I fully understand what the benefits of this are versus going through the process of using one arduino as ISP for another.  Is it just a more streamlined process or maybe I don't understand fully and they have different functions?  I have used arduinos to program other chips in the past and it has worked ok for me.  Thanks for all of the suggestions. 

Why do you think my 3.3V pin is at 0? Does it matter if we never use it for this project?  

CrossRoads

Dedicated tool, the Programmer, is always ready to go, no fooling around wondering if the right code has been loaded or not.

If something happened extreme enough to take out a regulator, and  they are pretty tough, then it's a guess if the more sensitive parts survived. Usually the Atmega 16U2 USB/Serial chip is the first thing to die, and it's generally not replaceable without a hot air station.
Designing & building electrical circuits for over 25 years.  Screw Shield for Mega/Due/Uno,  Bobuino with ATMega1284P, & other '328P & '1284P creations & offerings at  my website.

bethannw123

Thanks for clarifying Crossroads. 

You are saying that the board is fried, correct? 

Thanks for your help!

TechGraphix

#164
Dec 06, 2020, 06:39 pm Last Edit: Dec 06, 2020, 06:40 pm by TechGraphix
I solved my problem:
When a processor is programmed in the Arduino, you can upload another program.
When the processor is programmed over the ISP and you put that processor in the arduino, you will have this problem.
When the processor is bootloaded over ISP you can use it in the arduino.
So, although everything is fine with the wiring, the Arduino itself and the program (as it does work in the Arduino) you can't upload a program to it,  if it was programmed before over ISP (which i often do)  Burning the bootloader makes it usable again..
Haven't found this solution here yet but it might solve many of the same problems.
Things to do: always keep a fresh bootloaded processor spare.. Upload the program over ISP only then when you need that processor in your project..  I will keep my collection processors with fresh bootload, no program..
Kees


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