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Topic: eBay Power Bank Sellers (Read 2444 times) previous topic - next topic

Hiddenvision

Jun 15, 2019, 06:24 pm Last Edit: Jun 16, 2019, 09:25 pm by Hiddenvision

On the subject of powerbanks.
Did you know you can get some for FREE on ebay UK.

Simple process.
Look for those advertised as 500000mAh (500Amp!) units.
Actually you can select anything from 50000 up to 750000mAh
There is even some 3 or 4 panel solar units if your in a sunny place.
They range from £10 to £20 but mostly they all contain an approx 10000mAh (10Amp) LiPo cell.

Just purchase one (or many**),
when it arrives quickly test to see if it is actually a 500AMP unit.
If you did get a 500Amp unit for under £20, think yourself lucky and sell it to TESLA for millions.
If not then claim for return as "Not as described",

You will need to dance with the seller for a few messages,
They say it will improve,
Perhaps your cables,
Then they say perhaps a discount will make you happy,
Then they eventually buckle and refund in FULL.
Most sellers do not bother to ask you to return the item and you get a FULL refund.
But even if you have to return then it is at the sellers expense so it is no real loss to you.



But get your FREE power bank today!!, don't wait till they are all taken off the site.
ALWAYS READ THE TITLE AND DESCRIPTION.
Ensure they make the claim of over rated capacity.

** Best to only purchase ONE at a time from each seller
or they may see the loss of multiple units worth asking you to return the items.
For users outside of the UK check the eBay returns policy for items not as described in your area.

?? Is this wrong to do such a thing.??

Well in my book you are actually doing the online community a favour by helping to bring this false advertising scam to a halt before many more buyers are conned.

eBay will not act to stop this selling tactic unless more users report the items or request a refund.
Plus, you are only purchasing in the hope that you get what is offered, if you do not get what they describe then it is your right to claim return/refund.

Coding Badly

when it arrives quickly test to see if it is actually a 500AMP unit.
Post the details of how you performed the test including results.

If you are unable to provide the requested information in a timely manner I will conclude that you are encouraging others to commit a serious crime by defrauding eBay sellers and you will be permanently banned from this forum.


Hiddenvision

#2
Jun 16, 2019, 02:10 pm Last Edit: Jun 16, 2019, 05:16 pm by Hiddenvision
Hi CB,
Well I run several tests.

One is physically looking at the size of the unit.
As we all know the size of a battery is normally proportional to it's capacity.

Secondly I normally run the powerbank down till it stops working, then I place it on a 1Amp charger and count the hours it takes to reach 100% or it stops drawing current.
With the current limited to 1Amp max I figure it should take approx. 500hours to fully charge.
Normally I see a full charge result in approx. 10 hours or less.!

Thirdly I charge up some known capacity items from it.
Namely a Unit with a known 6000mAh battery and another random device with an internal battery in the range of 2000mAh to 5000mAh.

And normally after I get the refund I pop the lid off and look at the actually LiPo cell to confirm that it is as suspected. They generally contain one or two cells ranging in capacity of 5000mAh to 10000mAh.

With the exception of one solar type that uses 5 x 18650 cells that are rated and marked at 2000mAh each. That item was sold as 300000mAh and even my shady math still can't get to the same result.

I can assure you that I am not encouraging anyone to commit a serious crime.
In fact I am clearly pointing out eBay sellers are the ones committing the crime here.
If I were the one committing a crime eBay would have already banned me or had me arrested as I communicate with them very often about this very issue.

I have to date tested 15 powerbanks of various shapes and colors and not yet found any to be even close to the rated capacity they claim them to have.
Most of them only giving 2% or 3% capacity of what they claim to be selling.

I am not sure if you know much about powerbanks or LiPo batteries but if you could actually buy a 500AMP unit for less than £20 then the problem of power storage would be over.
Given the size of the unit provided then electric cars would not need to carry such a large array of cells and TESLA would not have a problem producing enough cells to meet the demand for their cars.

If you would like me to post some pictures of the internals of said 500000mAh powerbanks just ask.

Hv.


Hiddenvision

#3
Jun 16, 2019, 02:44 pm Last Edit: Jun 18, 2019, 08:47 pm by Hiddenvision
So I attach an email I wrote to one of the complaints team at eBay.
This was after they simply provided me with a rather non descript reply to a more detailed letter I wrote to them.
Sorry, I know that this is hijacking the original thread a little,
Original thread

if you feel it best that these messages are deleted or edited I have no argument.

But I can take some pictures of the various units and the PCB used on units with a percentage display and also some with simple led indicators for capacity. with luck it will assist the OP's desire to find a method to calculate remaining capacity.


This was the message I sent to ebay

So I present a little eBay puzzle for you.

This item number 153071001510 is also selling itself as a 300000mAh unit.

Although it actually contains NO batteries, as it is in kit form.

But the size and shape is very similar to those items sold as complete units.

However they do clearly state in the listing that it will require 2 batteries and give the size of the cells it will take.

Battery: Polymer battery 5565113*2 or 6060100*2 or 606090*2 (not included)

A simple search of eBay for the batteries will produce some search results.
Example Item numbers of these cells 123461213106 or 202420291349 or 192784195126.

Again I hope it is clear to see that the sellers of the actual batteries are being relatively honest and state the capacity as approx. 5000mAh. I believe them to be truthful and honest.

So given that the unit will take two cells @ 5000mAh each, simple math will show the kit will actually only produce something capable of holding a total of 10000mAh.

To realise the stated 300000mAh the user will need to purchase 60 batteries..

I encourage you to either find these batteries small enough to allow 60 units to be fitted into a size similar to that of any of the listed 300000mAh items or cheep enough.

Even harder is to fit 100 of these cells into a similar sized package to give you a 500000mAh powerbank.

And given the cost of the separate cells, although there is room for profit how pray tell me do they sell a 100,200,300,400,500 kmAh powerbank for the price they do including next day shipping.?

Simple physics or economics has to play a part in the modern day reality we live in.

I hope this puzzle has served you well and trust that it will shine some light on the situation I am trying to bring to your attention.

Please note that I am not trying to point out this single (kit) item, but more trying to highlight this issue with the whole category of powerbanks.

If you enjoyed this puzzle I can suggest some more.

Coding Badly

#4
Jun 16, 2019, 07:38 pm Last Edit: Jun 16, 2019, 07:39 pm by Coding Badly
I can assure you that I am not encouraging anyone to commit a serious crime.  In fact I am clearly pointing out eBay sellers are the ones committing the crime here.
Stealing from a thief is still stealing.

If I were the one committing a crime eBay would have already banned me or had me arrested as I communicate with them very often about this very issue.
That is the dictionary definition of specious reasoning.


Hiddenvision

#5
Jun 16, 2019, 09:24 pm Last Edit: Jun 16, 2019, 09:42 pm by Hiddenvision
Hi CB,
Many thanks for shifting into a new thread.
I was a little concerned with stomping over the original with this.

I should mention that I have never mentioned theft or stealing.
I was simply discussing the facts.

It is a fact that in the UK if you purchase something that is not as described you have the legal right to get your money back. If the sellers of such items want to have their product returned it is entirely up to them and their legal right also.

I have never said no to such requests, though I have told a seller once that I was unprepared to use the shipping label they provided as RoyalMail have a blanket BAN on shipping Powerbanks within their network.

So I do not think in any way that I could be accused of being a thief.

Obviously the way that I presented the facts in my first message may have triggered some people to thinking I was encouraging people to scam others but on reflection I hope that it is clear this is not the case.

Comes the question of whether doing something with reasonable knowledge of what the outcome may be should be classed as bad behaviour. Hope not as this is how most people go about their daily life.

Given the fact that I have been communicating with ebay 3 or 4 times a week on this matter for several months, and given that they have clearly admitted that the only way they can take action on fraudulent listings is with the help of their members purchasing items and reporting them thru the normal process this is what I am doing, as per eBays instruction. eBay do not have any staff with technical knowledge and so they simply rely on searching google for their answers.


Like I had mentioned, if I do actually receive a 500 or 300 kmAh powerbank, there will be nothing to report and I would make no attempt to exercise my rights as none would have been infringed.

I guess it is like the sellers who sell 512GB sd cards for next to nothing, while only supplying a doctored card of lower capacity. These and similar sellers should be tackled and stopped otherwise the process of online shopping becomes more and more like a game of Russian roulette with a fully loaded weapon.



Hv.

Coding Badly

Did you know you can get some for FREE on ebay UK.
The intent is get something for free.

Just purchase one (or many**),
By pretending to be a legitimate customer.

That meets the dictionary definition of "fraud".

By posting a how-to guide you are encouraging others to engage in fraud.


Riva

By pretending to be a legitimate customer.

That meets the dictionary definition of "fraud".

By posting a how-to guide you are encouraging others to engage in fraud.
Totally agree. Very shady practice IMO
Don't PM me for help as I will ignore it.

Hiddenvision

I apologise that my emails to you have not clarified the investigation process that your feedback about these items has initiated.

We have filters and systems in place that recognise selling accounts that accumulate high amounts of return requests opened by buyers. Defects accumulated from high amounts of return requests impact the amount of sales made on the account and if a seller falls to a below standard seller level, the Final Value fee charged to them is increased.

This means that repeated selling behaviour of the type that you have experienced consequently leads to the seller's account reflecting the true experience that they offer buyers.

As we generally don't inspect the items sold by our sellers, we rely on information gathered from the above data to make internal judgements and decisions. We are currently investigating the large amount of sellers who are selling the Power banks and we are addressing this internally.

As I explained previously, we are grateful to you for bringing this issue to our attention, as we do not want what you have reported to us continuing on site.




Hiddenvision

#9
Jun 18, 2019, 05:13 pm Last Edit: Jun 18, 2019, 08:58 pm by Hiddenvision
Well, because I take being accused of committing fraud, being a theif or encouraging others to commit crimes seriously, today I spoke to Consumer advice, Trading Standards and some very nice lawyers that were willing to give me a bit of legal advice without charging.

The long and the short of it was I am doing nothing wrong, both doing what I am doing purchasing these items and also by advising or encouraging others to do the same.

There is no crime, there is no fraud, there is no theft.


In fact one lawyer was keen to point out I may have a case for slander.

https://defamation.laws.com/slander/slander-accusation


For some other dictionary definitions see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation


I can only hope that people that wish to accuse me of something also do their homework so that they do not misinform anyone that maybe less able.

If you truly believe that I am committing a crime then please report this matter to ActionFraud.

https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

I will be only to happy to be investigated fully and post the results back here..

Actually I just got off the phone to Action fraud and they also have confirmed that I am doing nothing wrong.

And that would be the dictionary definition of "covering all your bases" and "Knowing the FACTS".


Riva

On the subject of powerbanks.
Did you know you can get some for FREE on ebay UK.

Simple process.
Look for those advertised as 500000mAh (500Amp!) units.
Actually you can select anything from 50000 up to 750000mAh
There is even some 3 or 4 panel solar units if your in a sunny place.
They range from £10 to £20 but mostly they all contain an approx 10000mAh (10Amp) LiPo cell.

Just purchase one (or many**),
when it arrives quickly test to see if it is actually a 500AMP unit.
If you did get a 500Amp unit for under £20, think yourself lucky and sell it to TESLA for millions.
If not then claim for return as "Not as described",

You will need to dance with the seller for a few messages,
They say it will improve,
Perhaps your cables,
Then they say perhaps a discount will make you happy,
Then they eventually buckle and refund in FULL.
Most sellers do not bother to ask you to return the item and you get a FULL refund.
But even if you have to return then it is at the sellers expense so it is no real loss to you.



But get your FREE power bank today!!, don't wait till they are all taken off the site.
ALWAYS READ THE TITLE AND DESCRIPTION.
Ensure they make the claim of over rated capacity.

** Best to only purchase ONE at a time from each seller
or they may see the loss of multiple units worth asking you to return the items.
For users outside of the UK check the eBay returns policy for items not as described in your area.

?? Is this wrong to do such a thing.??

Well in my book you are actually doing the online community a favour by helping to bring this false advertising scam to a halt before many more buyers are conned.

eBay will not act to stop this selling tactic unless more users report the items or request a refund.
Plus, you are only purchasing in the hope that you get what is offered, if you do not get what they describe then it is your right to claim return/refund.
Your suggesting people buy items from ebay knowing the items cannot match the listing description so they can then claim a refund and hopefully keep the item for free because the expense to the seller of returning the item is to much.

To me that is at least morally wrong and in your post you even question your actions
Quote
?? Is this wrong to do such a thing.??
A quote from the Action Fraud site you mention in your last post.
Quote
Fraud is when trickery is used to gain a dishonest advantage, which is often financial, over another person. Cyber crime is any criminal act dealing with computers and networks.
seems to sum up what your suggesting other people do and have possibly done so yourself.


Don't PM me for help as I will ignore it.

Hiddenvision

#11
Jun 20, 2019, 01:03 pm Last Edit: Jun 20, 2019, 04:40 pm by Hiddenvision
Hello Riva,

Your need to Quote my original message escapes me.
But I thank you, the more places people get to read it the better.

However if you are going to quote me then at least read it first.

NOWHERE did I mention
Quote
because the expense to the seller of returning the item is to much
Actually the cost to return is in the range of £3 to £5 at most.

Quote
Your suggesting people buy items from ebay knowing the items cannot match the listing description so they can then claim a refund and hopefully keep the item for free
They say hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I guess I am just sharing mine and perhaps predicting one or two of many possible outcomes. Just wish I could do the same with lottery numbers but I guess that is some trickery left to time travellers, voodoo and witchcraft.

Re your comment on morals.
Well perhaps to you it is morally wrong, but it is still lawful.
It is also following the advice given by people that work for the platform.
I would not try and defend their moral values in the slightest but as they are aligned with mine in this matter I am happy to follow their guidance.

You mention that I question my own actions. NO.
if you simply read the very next line where I clearly state my point of view, you may understand my own stand point in what I have typed on the matter. It was, as I think they call it, a rhetorical question and more to prompt others to give their point of view. Although looking at the dictionary definition perhaps rhetorical is the wrong term.

I do however question myself when I am accused of something, thus I normally contact others with far more knowledge and experience than me on such things to ask for and listen to their advice.

You also quote an interesting line from Action Fraud.
That is wonderful, however I suspect that I will still depend on the advice I was given by a person that works in that department and has been told and understands the facts and even gone off to check with their superior, rather than just what someone SEEMS to think.

I am always stunned by the attitude of some people.

Personally I think your time would be better served by actually helping the community and purchasing one or many of the units I discuss. Making a report to eBay or whatever online shopping platform you prefer and assisting in trying to prevent fraud. If you feel strongly about the poor seller loosing their item then insist that it is returned either at their expense or your own.
This would be better than simply letting off stale wind IMHO.

Let me be clear AGAIN.
I have the FULL backing and encouragement by the following groups for both what I am personally doing and also what I have posted encouraging others to do.

Action Fraud,
Citizens Advice,
eBay,
Trading Standards,
Competition and marketing department,
And several lawyers that I have encountered during this exercise.

I cannot claim that they ALL are prepared to make statements to that effect although I never asked.
But my opinion is that I have nothing to worry about.
And honestly, my opinion, given that I do hold all the facts, wins on this right now.
However I do respect your right to hold and voice your own opinion and in no way wish to influence or bend your own moral compass.

But I will again state that if you feel I am doing ANYTHING that is against the law then I encourage you to do the right thing and report me to anyone you see fit. I can only see that it would draw more lawful attention to this situation and the more people that know the better.


Riva

Quote
Your need to Quote my original message escapes me.
Just so you cannot keep editing it.

AFAIK there is really not much point in saying anything else on the matter. I doubt know either of us is going to change our views and arguing the point would just degenerate into a pointless flame war.

Don't PM me for help as I will ignore it.

Hiddenvision

#13
Jun 20, 2019, 06:22 pm Last Edit: Jun 20, 2019, 06:28 pm by Hiddenvision
No worries Riva,

I can still edit, but I guess it gives a snapshot of a moment in time.
Your explanation gives an impression you feel I may be trying to retract something.

Just so you know I only edit to perhaps add more information or to correct spelling errors.
Don't think I have changed any facts or changed my initial description.
But that is an OCD thing where I may read over what I post several times over many weeks to make sure it is accurate and at least not full of goofy errors that make me look totally uneducated. Bless the site for allowing people to correct themselves.


Please do not think I was arguing about anybody's views, I think I was just trying to emphasise the facts and make my position clear. One of my pet hates is misinformation, but I enjoy discussing different views on any topic.

With luck others may contribute with their experiences.

As always, I wish no harm or ill will and hope that anyone reading these posts comes away with a more informed view.

I do also thank the Arduino forum for allowing this topic to remain and be shared with other members.

Best wishes to all..

6v6gt

Whatever the legal situation, you are not acting in good faith if you simply scour eBay for items where the seller has made an obvious error in the description, then purchase the item with sole intention of squeezing money out of the supplier based on the false description, with the implied threat of damaging that supplier's reputation.

I would suggest that your next action should be to ask the mods to remove the entire thread. It is anyway certainly not relevant to the "device hacking" sub forum.

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