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Topic: Priceless in a really sad way. (Read 3878 times) previous topic - next topic

Robin2

I don't like/agree with welfare for all
I'm not questioning your personal opinion but this seems to be a common attitude in the USA which is not mirrored at all in the UK or European Union. To my mind it makes the USA seem mean and heartless - especially as it is such a rich nation.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Qdeathstar

It's mean and heartless to demand I give up what I've earned.
A creaking creeping shadow
stiff against the freezing fog
glares at a tickless watch.

Time has failed him -- all things shall pass.

Delta_G

I'm not questioning your personal opinion but this seems to be a common attitude in the USA which is not mirrored at all in the UK or European Union. To my mind it makes the USA seem mean and heartless - especially as it is such a rich nation.

...R
The world is mean and heartless by nature.  To imagine that there will ever be a society of any sort where some don't have it better than others is to be completely naive of human nature. 
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Robin2

To imagine that there will ever be a society of any sort where some don't have it better than others is to be completely naive of human nature. 
There are haves and have-nots on this side of the Atlantic too. We just try to be a bit kinder to people in poor circumstances.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ardly

The world is mean and heartless by nature.  To imagine that there will ever be a society of any sort where some don't have it better than others is to be completely naive of human nature.  
That is true. However banding together and providing a basic safety net for all makes sense, that is what welfare is. Anybody can fall ill or get injured.

There is a growing divide between rich and poor in the "developed" nations and that is not good. There is also the up and coming issue of automation and AI. That is why experiments have been taking place in various places with "universal income" to see what happens if everybody gets a basic salary as a right. There is nothing to stop them topping it up though.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

GoForSmoke

#opinions


I personally have no issues with him calling Ukraine or Russia and getting a little extra help... but I'm not voting for him because he is an ineffective leader.  Even when his party controlled the entire government he was too busy trolling dead men to get anything done.

Warren seems like the only adult running.  I don't like/agree with welfare for all but not everything in the primary doesn't make it to the general election much less through Congress.
+1 but in the meantime the exra-special alternate-reality spoiled yet desperate rich brat has the football.

Did you see the video there at the UN? Zelensky's reaction as he heard the news, from smile to shock so fast, LOL!
How soon no more Ukraine, huh?
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

GoForSmoke

Subsidizing industries somehow isn't wealth redistribution either.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

ardly

Subsidizing industries somehow isn't wealth redistribution either.
Are you saying Universal Income is a subsidy to industries?
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

Robin2

Are you saying Universal Income is a subsidy to industries?
I suspect @GoForSmoke was trying to point out that US politicians are perfectly happy to re-distribute taxpayers' wealth to industry yet strangely reluctant to re-distribute wealth to help the needy in society.

But I may be wrong.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ardly

I suspect @GoForSmoke was trying to point out that US politicians are perfectly happy to re-distribute taxpayers' wealth to industry yet strangely reluctant to re-distribute wealth to help the needy in society.

But I may be wrong.

...R
I would agree with that. Some politicians might feel that helping industry supports jobs. However we are now seeing that companies are not paying their taxes, a small number of people are benefiting in a hugely disproportionate way from profits and there is a real risk of automation displacing a significant part of the population from work.
I think we are long way from AI being truly intelligent but quite close to AI being able to take over a lot of jobs.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

Robin2

I find it very strange. Given that there have been such huge improvements in productivity since (say) the year 1900 why doesn't everyone work a 3-day week? Just as much would be done as was done in 1900 - more probably. And there would be a lot less damage to the environment.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Delta_G

The question has to be, how much do we do for those who won't do for themselves?   Do we raise them up to a place that is survivable?  Do we raise them up to a point where they are at the median?  Do we bring them up to the point that they can have the American dream without working?  And from where do we get all this money to shore up all of those who don't have enough. 

I find it interesting that even with all the "meanness" and "unkindness" that you say America shows to the poor, the poor people from all over the world are clamoring to get here.  They're not rushing to places with handouts.  They're coming to America because of opportunity.  Even a poor man can make it here if he applies himself.  Every man can be in control of his own destiny here. 

And I hear plenty of people talk about what they think holds them back.  But I see people right now in America that have gone from homeless on the street to multimillionaire CEO in one lifetime.  So it can be done.  And only here. 

So while we don't just give away money, we do at least leave you in control and with the ability to go and make it.  It just depends on you. 

I hear the pushback on this already.  But all I can say is see where people are going.  Even in Europe the poor clamor to come to America.  Why would they do that if it is really so horrible here and so kind there?
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Delta_G

And from a philosophical point, let's look at something like healthcare.  Should everyone get the same?

So let's say everyone gets treated equally.  And when you get sick there are some things that will kill you and some we can cure.  And no matter who you are you get the same level. 

Well then a wealthy man gets sick.  He thinks that he can maybe save his own life if he could just throw enough money into finding a cure for himself.  Or maybe the cure is known but takes more resources than are available for us to provide to everyone.  Do we now tell this man that he isn't allowed to spend his money to save his life just because there are some other people who can't?  Just because we can't afford to provide this cure to everyone we restrict what this man is allowed to spend his own money on. 

That's obviously not kind.  We are telling a sick man who has the resources to save himself that he must die and he is not allowed. 

So let's allow him to do this.  Let's let him save himself.  Now the poor man cries that it isn't fair because he doesn't get the same cure. 

See, it's a catch 22.  You're going to have to tell someone that they have to die.  How do we decide who?  What should we do?  Should we tell the rich man to die?  Or should we accept that sometimes wealth gains you things. 
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

Delta_G

#43
Oct 04, 2019, 06:52 pm Last Edit: Oct 04, 2019, 06:53 pm by Delta_G
Kindness is going and helping someone. Kindness is not passing a law to force everyone else to help someone. 

If you think that everyone should have healthcare but you aren't out there spending your money to buy healthcare for people then you're just a hypocrite.  And don't tell me it's because you don't have the money.  If you're here then you have more than some.  Go and find them and give them what you have if you think that's the way it should work.  Be the change you want to see.

Asking the government to do it doesn't make it free.  It's the same situation.  So if you aren't giving all of your money to the poor then don't try to tell me that you think I should have to. 
|| | ||| | || | ||  ~Woodstock

Please do not PM with technical questions or comments.  Keep Arduino stuff out on the boards where it belongs.

ardly

....
And I hear plenty of people talk about what they think holds them back.  But I see people right now in America that have gone from homeless on the street to multimillionaire CEO in one lifetime.  So it can be done.  And only here.
....
And China :)
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

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