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Topic: Does anyone have a genuine education certificate? (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

Robin2

There have been several Threads where people were effectively looking for someone to write a paper or a project so they could qualify and the Forum response has generally been "would you want to hire a guy who got is grades by cheating"

Just now I have reported SPAM for some "Instant Certificate" and there was a similar case very recently.

If you go to hire a professional (any professional) and s/he shows you a certificate - how can you trust it?

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL

A lot of spam here used to be (still may be) for IELTS qualifications.

Face-to-face, I don't think I'd need to see a certificate to check that the supposed holder had earned it...
Please don't PM technical questions - post them on the forum, then everyone benefits/suffers equally

Paul_KD7HB

In the US, a professional will give you his resume and not a certificate. You can verify the previous contracts the professional has done.

Paul

Robin2

#3
Nov 09, 2019, 08:04 pm Last Edit: Nov 09, 2019, 08:04 pm by Robin2
In the US, a professional will give you his resume and not a certificate. You can verify the previous contracts the professional has done.

Paul
I guess, then, that you would not give anybody his/her first job.  :)

There are plenty of examples (and many from long ago) of people who operated (sometimes literally) with false credentials for long periods. In other words a resume may not be much use either.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Paul_KD7HB

I guess, then, that you would not give anybody his/her first job.  :)

There are plenty of examples (and many from long ago) of people who operated (sometimes literally) with false credentials for long periods. In other words a resume may not be much use either.

...R
Oh, but I have given people their first job. Based on interviews with more than just me and then there are probation periods for each of them.

Boy! can I tell you example of people, programmers and so called systems analysts who got hired with resume inflation. One programmer disappeared for a couple of weeks and then finally phoned in to say he had quit.

My most memorable was assisting on a payroll system for a big construction company. The lead analyst/programmer actually told me how he had faked his way up the ladder to his current position. One day he disappeared and I learned he had quit. What a mess, but myself and a great trainee managed to put the system and programs together to make it work. That was on an IBM 1440 disk system with 16k of memory. Had to reconfigure one disk drive to store tables on cylinders rather than tracks for faster access. Then use program overlays to load the tables(all punched cards). One table was 5 dementions.  Even had to use the console typewrite as a secondary printer.

All done and by the second payroll run, the construction company controller was so happy. The money saved on worksman's comp had paid for the payroll system.

Paul

DaveEvans

#5
Nov 10, 2019, 01:15 am Last Edit: Nov 10, 2019, 04:29 am by DaveEvans
If you go to hire a professional (any professional) and s/he shows you a certificate - how can you trust it?

...R
US professional engineers are registered on a state-by-state basis.   Their credentials can be checked on state board of registration websites.  Same for doctors, attorneys, architects, and a number of other professionals.

ballscrewbob

Any tickets I have can all be validated either through trade associations, past employment, or otherwise.

Not that I use or call on them much nowadays.
Had some pretty odd interviews and been on the other end  and actually turned down jobs as the job description was clearly written by somebody who did not know up from down.

Bob.

It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

wildbill

I guess, then, that you would not give anybody his/her first job.  :)

There are plenty of examples (and many from long ago) of people who operated (sometimes literally) with false credentials for long periods. In other words a resume may not be much use either.

...R
In some jobs I applied for, the employer wanted to see a diploma from a University and then employed an outside service to confirm that the University was genuine and that they could confirm the results of my degree.

This same process caused my sister a delay in verification because her alma mater had merged with another college and changed its name.

sayHovis

You can also ask the applicant to provide an academic transcript. The certificate is pretty much binary, and the one who ended bottom of the class at med school still gets to be called Doctor. (Although certificates usually do say if the certificate is given cum laude.)

But the transcript is literally a course-by-course list of marks over the whole program. So you could see that a civil engineer was brilliant with structures but crap at soil mechanics.

(Always assuming that the institution exists and is reputable. A certificate with oak leaves and crossed screwdrivers from Arduinos-R-Us-College-of-Total-Brilliance-As-Seen-On-TV, no matter how well it blinks* in the dark, would be dodgy.)

One other thing, if you want to look at candidates' publications: there's a site called academia.edu where folk publish stuff, and at least one poster on this site posts forum solutions there. It looks very fancy: footnotes and abstracts and all that.

But in a personal email to me, they told me:

Quote
Documents aren't peer reviewed on our side before being uploaded
So it's more faux-cademia... Don't be fooled: anyone can post any old bollocks there.

*with or without delay().






westfw

Meh.  We hired people mostly based on interviews.  Usually a full 8 hours of interviews, with half-a-dozen hiring managers and/or engineers (sometimes in groups.)  Occasionally someone would get sent home early :-(  This was usually the 2nd round interviews, where first round was by phone/email/with just the hiring manager, and or referrals from existing employees.  (Depending on distance of prospective employee from the interview site...)

For sure, degrees and certifications take a back seat to demonstrated knowledge.  The last round of interviews of university students for internship positions I did was rather depressing :-(

Although, with larger companies, getting TO the interview can be the tough part.  Getting through computer and/or HR screening can require having the right keywords on your resume.  (also depressing.)
 (Maybe.  I've been contacted on the basis of my github contents.  Post retirement, though.)
(On the bright side, HR at a large company will do the reference and credential checking, and handle immigration and other issues that a small company doesn't really understand how to deal with.)

 It's an unfortunate state of affairs when those hiring want EXACTLY a PERFECT candidate, rather than someone they can build into a useful contributor.

GoForSmoke

I had 2 customers that I should have seen their certificates or lack thereof.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

sayHovis

I had 2 customers that I should have seen their certificates or lack thereof.

Why do you need to see customers' certificates? They hire people to do stuff they can't do themselves. All you need to see is their bank balance ;)


GoForSmoke

Funny but rich assholes are the least likely to pay for work.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

sayHovis

Funny but rich assholes are the least likely to pay for work.

How do you think they got rich?


GoForSmoke

Both of mine inherited. They grew up with their attitudes.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

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