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Topic: Electric cars . . .  (Read 15700 times) previous topic - next topic

larryd

#345
Feb 23, 2021, 10:01 pm Last Edit: Feb 23, 2021, 10:11 pm by larryd
No, I know nothing about these cars.

Was wondering about the massive amount of electrical energy just sitting there, must have some serious fusing protection (I hope); mind you, the same can be said about gasoline but there is a history there.


Had a car 12v battery stolen in a car park once.  A new criminal industry might start up if your car batteries are exchangeable.



When fully charged, guess there could be quite a bright welding arc light if there was an accident.



Wander about the cost of replacing the batteries as they would have a limited life.

Wander how these batteries work at -40°C.

I guess I'll keep the horse for a few more years.




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TheMemberFormerlyKnownAsAWOL

I guess I'll keep the horse for a few more years.
That's funny - I've got a hybrid, so, of course, it's called "The Mule"
Please don't PM technical questions - post them on the forum, then everyone benefits/suffers equally

CrossRoads

#347
Feb 24, 2021, 12:03 am Last Edit: Feb 24, 2021, 12:23 am by CrossRoads
It does happen
https://insideevs.com/news/423581/severe-electric-car-fire-explosion-charging/


https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/success/electric-car-vehicle-battery-fires/index.html
Whole model lines impacted.

Wonder how much one of these battery packs weigh vs 50 gallons of gas at 6 lbs/gallon (300 lbs in two 25 gallon tanks in my plane, on which I can fly nearly 5 hours, probably close to 650 miles).  Could I even get 5 hours of battery life off the ground?

Wikipedia: The 85 kWh battery pack weighs 1,200 lb (540 kg).
So the battery pack could fly, but there'd be no payload left for me or passengers!
Designing & building electrical circuits for over 25 years.  Screw Shield for Mega/Due/Uno,  Bobuino with ATMega1284P, & other '328P & '1284P creations & offerings at  my website.

PerryBebbington

I don't doubt it happens, but does it happen more often than with ICE cars?

Robin2

True, but that's clearly not the way the industry is going.
That was the point of my Reply #338. Why not?

It may well be for the same reason that (from what I hear) there are a few different incompatible charge-socket designs in the USA. I believe things are more standard in Europe.


Quote
Anyway, I can charge a car in my garage, so I have little need for swapping batteries.
There will be lots of people (or circumstances) for whom (for which) that is not an option. How would you recharge on a trip from Lands-End to John-O-Groats? Or even London to Glasgow?

Referring to Reply #345 ... I don't think the theft of interchangeable batteries is an insurmountable problem. It would be worthwhile incorporating anti-theft features that would not be justified for a £100 starter battery.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Qdeathstar

#350
Feb 24, 2021, 02:03 pm Last Edit: Feb 24, 2021, 02:07 pm by Qdeathstar
No one is interested in interchangeable batteries. That's not the future. What is the future is 800v dc fast charging that will give about 300km of range in about 15 minutes.

The reason is that it is much cheaper to install fast charging stations than it would be to maintain a stock of batteries and be responsible for maintaining them, recharging them, and owning them. Batteries are a depreciating asset that loose value and maximum capacity over time.  It makes a lot more sense for a car company to shift that liability to the consumer and just install fast charging stations.
A creaking creeping shadow
stiff against the freezing fog
glares at a tickless watch.

Time has failed him -- all things shall pass.

Robin2

No one is interested in interchangeable batteries.
Why not ?

They would completely solve both the charge-time and any doubts about the life-expectancy of the batteries.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

CrossRoads

If you look at how batteries are installed in many cars/SUVs, they are pretty much built into the floor of the car, and would appear to need some serious disassembly to remove & replace.
Until the OEMs come up with a method to slide a pack out and slide in a new one, and make that universal across vehicles, I don't think battery swapping will be viable.  They are not commodity items like gasoline/diesel is, and may never be.
Maybe for fleet vehicles that need quick turn times, like tractor trailers or busses, where there are fixed destinations between routes.
This 2-seat trainer aircraft, with 50 minute range, doesn't swap batteries either from what I read in the text.
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/velis-electro-easa-tc/
There does appear to be a bunch of battery packs in one of the pictures, so maybe they do.


Designing & building electrical circuits for over 25 years.  Screw Shield for Mega/Due/Uno,  Bobuino with ATMega1284P, & other '328P & '1284P creations & offerings at  my website.

Henry_Best

Is it an option (even if expensive) to have your own charge point at your house and charge your car while it is parked in front of your house?
How would I get the charging cable across the pavement [US = sidewalk] without it being a trip hazard and probably illegal (obstructing the highway)? 

larryd

How would I get the charging cable across the pavement [US = sidewalk] without it being a trip hazard and probably illegal (obstructing the highway)?

You have to buy a new house with a garage.




No technical PMs.
If you are asked a question, please respond with an answer.
If you are asked for more information, please supply it.
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Robin2

Until the OEMs come up with a method to slide a pack out and slide in a new one, and make that universal across vehicles, I don't think battery swapping will be viable.
I agree. So why aren't they working hard to achieve that ASAP ?

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Robin2

How would I get the charging cable across the pavement [US = sidewalk] without it being a trip hazard and probably illegal (obstructing the highway)?
I'm pretty sure I saw installations outside a terrace of small houses in New Mills (Derbyshire) with permanent charge points mounted at the edge of the pavement and (I presume) wires running under the pavement into the house. They certainly were NOT public charging points. And this may have been 2 years ago.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ardly

....
Until the OEMs come up with a method to slide a pack out and slide in a new one, and make that universal across vehicles, I don't think battery swapping will be viable.  They are not commodity items like gasoline/diesel is, and may never be.
Maybe for fleet vehicles that need quick turn times, like tractor trailers or busses, where there are fixed destinations between routes.
....
There were electric buses in 1906 and charging was done by swapping battery packs which took 3 minutes!
http://electrobus.co.uk/the-technology/

On the topic of fires: I had quite a new ICE vehicle that caught fire while parked. On examination it was quite clear that the fire had started at the battery.

Recently I have been reading that Edison tried to use Iron Nickle batteries and that there is a resurgence of interest in them. It seems that they are robust, long lived, fast charging, and use materials that are abundant and cheap. Once charged they produce hydrogen, so are in fact a sort of battery electrolyser cross and that in itself is generating interest.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

Qdeathstar

#358
Today at 12:13 am Last Edit: Today at 12:14 am by Qdeathstar
Robin, you can get 100km of range in 15 minutes. How long do you think it would take to swap batteries?


I believe I have already explained the why not. It doesn't make economic sense.
A creaking creeping shadow
stiff against the freezing fog
glares at a tickless watch.

Time has failed him -- all things shall pass.

ardly

..... How long do you think it would take to swap batteries?


I believe I have already explained the why not. It doesn't make economic sense.
In 1906 it took 3 minutes to swap lead acid battery packs weighing 1.2 tons :)
The people doing the swapping were probably like an F1 pit stop crew though.

Like you I don't really see a future for swapping batteries in private vehicles.
Partly this is for economic reasons but partly because I don't think people would trust getting a battery that might have been used for who knows what.

They might have a place in commercial vehicles though as they did in the 1906 buses. Those buses seem to have been popular and the technology seemed to work but fraud brought down the companies involved.
http://mostdeliberateswindle.com/




"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

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