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Topic: Suitable content for the Introductory Tutorials section - please discuss (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

Robin2

If the Forum is going to be moved to operate on new software (see above) perhaps we could have a discussion about what should, and should not be in the future Introductory Tutorials section.


To my mind {A} the present section has far too many Threads so that a newbie will have difficulty figuring out which to read  and {B} most of them deal with topics that are not relevant for a beginner and will probably go right over their heads.

Perhaps there is a case for having a Tutorials section and a separate beginners Let's Get Started section.

IMHO the Let's Get Started section should have no more than 15 Threads so they can all be seen on the first page.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ballscrewbob

Would tend to agree with you.

My own suggestion would be leave the "TUTORIALS" header and then subdivide that to two sub forums.
As you suggest one for new people and one for more advanced topics.
Subdividing it inside its main title keeps it neater on the outside.

It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

Robin2

Subdividing it inside its main title keeps it neater on the outside.
That sounds like a good idea.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ballscrewbob

I had a peek around and a few other sections would also benefit from a main and sub clean up.

Languages section came to mind first of all as that would reduce the outward view from 10 to 1.

Certified products would come down from 2 to 1

Products would go from 14 to 1 with CREATE hived off to its own section as I dont really count it as a "product" per-se.

Development from 3 down to 1.

You get the idea i think and it saves the looooong scroll.

It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

wildbill

I'm doubtful about putting the beginner stuff into a subfolder. It needs to be front and centre with klaxons and flashing lights. And still no-one will read it.

Cynicism aside, I can't see a way to get people to look at any kind of help before they start. There's a huge number that just want to post as brief as possible a description of their problem with an expectation that an immediate (crystal ball driven) answer will be forthcoming.

Maybe new users can be directed to a really short version of Nick Gammon's page, but however short it is, many people "Just ain't got time for that stuff". It's a thorny problem.

ballscrewbob

@Bill

From my understanding almost ANY new software would be email capable.
An email giving the user a "confirmation" link IMHO could and should include having to scroll past some basic etiquette to get to the confirmation link.

Yes I know we all just scroll like mad for those but it would reach some people and that is a start.
The confirmation link could also land them on any more etiquette to drive it home and catch a few more on the way to the party.

A confirmation link email would also negate a large chunk of spam too.


It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

Robin2

I'm doubtful about putting the beginner stuff into a subfolder. It needs to be front and centre with klaxons and flashing lights. And still no-one will read it.
To my mind the Beginner's Tutorial (or what I have suggested should be called "Let's Get Started") should be a very short collection of things that will be useful for the beginner

I do not see it as a rite of passage in the same way as How to use the forum.

However I am inclined to your view that a "Let's Get Started" section should be front and centre and, paradoxically (is that the right word?), Bob's suggestion to use subfolders elsewhere would actually make space available to have it on its own rather than as a subfolder of Tutorials.

It could be that Project Guidance and Programming could be a single section (Projects and Programming ?) and the Tutorials could be subsection of that. It certainly seems to me that most of the stuff in the current Introductory Tutorials section is actually about projects and programming. Perhaps the Exhibition Gallery could also be a subsection of Projects and Programming.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

lastchancename

Since I'm the cause of the existing Introductory Tutorials section...
I agree with the thoughts above.

Sorry for coming in late here, but I didn't see this discussion until just now...

My choice would be to dumb it down a bit
My original goal was to 'tell' the really new newbies about the very basic fundamentals to get a circuit working...
(But god, there are some painfully deaf, dumb & blind beginners out there!)

TWO Sections


BEGINNERS - which would take the bulk of the current threads (+V supply, Ground,  MOSFETs etc), and
STUFF TO LEARN - for the slightly more advanced topics (EEPROM text/serial handling etc).
Everything heavier goes back into a more advanced thread like Programming Questions in the existing tree.
Or if that's too hard to moderate Introductory HARDWARE & Introductory SOFTWARE

I chose these names, because newbies hate to admit they're starting out with zero knowledge, but the response to the BEGINNERS: topics in the current section appears to be quite strong (but needs curating*)

Project Guidance and Programming - to newbies ("my LED doesn't work") are the same thing, but to more experienced users, there is a distinct difference, perhaps if the site can liit 'where low-ranking users (or karma > 10) can post - that might limit the pollution.

Member QUESTIONS should be summarily deleted until they learn there are existing dedicated 'question' threads.. they'll learn fast enough!

* Curation - that's a curly one, I'd volunteer but feel that I'm a bit too OCD/passive aggressive to be objective with really stupid punters !  and perhaps my C/C++ knowledge is a bit thinner than many of the senior guys here.
-- even some of the threads I started have veered off topic, but because I'm not a mod, I can't trim/move the irrelevant posts (!) which they need.   I feel like I'm bothering the mods when I suggest a thread should be moved or deleted.
Experienced responders have a nose for laziness, (they were beginners once)... Sure, there are trolls, chest-beaters, and pretenders - but the help you'll get here is about as good as it gets - if you try to help youself!.

Robin2

I suggested the Section title "Let's get started" because it seems to be a very common intro to YouTube tutorial videos and I would expect newcomers to this Forum to recognise the phrase. Also it makes no comment about the user's current ability (or lack of it)

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ballscrewbob

* Curation - that's a curly one, I'd volunteer but feel that I'm a bit too OCD/passive aggressive to be objective with really stupid punters !  and perhaps my C/C++ knowledge is a bit thinner than many of the senior guys here.
-- even some of the threads I started have veered off topic, but because I'm not a mod, I can't trim/move the irrelevant posts (!) which they need.   I feel like I'm bothering the mods when I suggest a thread should be moved or deleted.

We dont mind reports.
That is one of many reasons we are here.

Jus  don reepurt speelung mistooks cuz sum ov hus isnt gud.



It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

pert

Project Guidance and Programming - to newbies ("my LED doesn't work") are the same thing, but to more experienced users, there is a distinct difference
I don't understand this part. Are you talking about the existing forum boards: "Project Guidance" and "Programming Questions"? Or are you suggesting these as new sub-boards of the Tutorials board?

lastchancename

The crossover of questions in these two sections would suggest that some posters don't understand the difference between Guidance and Programming...

To me, it is strategy/philosophy vs technique,
When we see questions about motor drivers or 9V battery capability in the Programming section, it makes me wonder what I'm missing.
Guidance is a bit more flexible in that regard.

(Just BTW, I sometimes see posts discussing the OPs 'code', but there is no code posted above...   90% of the time there is, bt I'm curious what happened to the invisible code that people are commenting on !)
Experienced responders have a nose for laziness, (they were beginners once)... Sure, there are trolls, chest-beaters, and pretenders - but the help you'll get here is about as good as it gets - if you try to help youself!.


ballscrewbob

@lastchancename

Some posters use pictures of code (without proper links etc) or external links (both of which I dont really like)
Some others I have seen remove the code when they have been told to change it and then post it again later which is just as confusing.

I sort of wish this topic was part of the other forum software one but I understand Robins reason for this as a seperate issue and respect his POV in keeping it more distinct.

Slightly OT but I still think an OP's original post should be locked against edits.
OR better still..

The ability to actually SEE what was edited be available to all as it is on most social media platforms.

It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

lastchancename

Experienced responders have a nose for laziness, (they were beginners once)... Sure, there are trolls, chest-beaters, and pretenders - but the help you'll get here is about as good as it gets - if you try to help youself!.

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