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Topic: Schematic Component for Altium/Eagle? (Read 950 times) previous topic - next topic

legotech25

I want to design a daughter-board for the H7 that takes advantage of the underside HDCs using CircuitMaker. As far as I've been able to search, not only do these symbols not already exist, but there isn't enough first party documentation to make one without reverse engineering a physical board. 

I did find this one-off breakout board project, but I don't think any of that can be imported directly (despite CircuitMaker being made by Altium). https://github.com/Rufus31415/arduino-pro-portenta-h7-carrier-board

As a workaround, I can use 2 HDC symbols, but the process will be flaky and error prone without automatically enforced spacing and exclusions, and with manually referencing unlabeled pins against printed documentation.

I happen to have the freetime to construct such a symbol (in CircuitMaker specifically), but I wanted to check a few things first:

Did I miss the existence of such a symbol already? because I'd rather feel dumb before spending the time to make one than after. Following that:

Does such an effort exist already? If not:

Is there enough first party documentation to constrain a symbol/footprint without reverse engineering? And, ultimately:

If I embark on the effort to make one, how can I most widely spread its existence so that no one else has to repeat the effort?

jwestmoreland

#1
Aug 09, 2020, 09:44 am Last Edit: Aug 09, 2020, 11:45 am by jwestmoreland
legotech25,

The datasheet is here:

Connector Data Sheet

A P/N that should mate with the connector is something like this:

DF40C(2.0)-80DS-0.4V(51)

The 2.0 there is the stacking height of the receptacle.

I have a symbol in Altium - I'm trying to get it over to Circuit Maker - as soon as I have it ready - I'll update this or reply to this thread.

I posted a symbol and layout example for the connector in Circuit Maker - I named the project 'foo' which I guess wasn't the best name in the world - it's public.  I tried bringing in the libraries from Altium but the schematic symbol wasn't correct so I decided to do it this way to make it as easy as possible.  I also attached the datasheet there.  I did try putting an external URL on it but it doesn't appear to be active yet - so I think once you are logged in and peruse the new projects - hopefully it's still fairly close to the top.  You should just be able to cut and paste into your design - I chose the 2.0mm receptacle - you may want to change that but that won't change the 2D layout symbol - so it should be usable.

HTH,
John

legotech25

Thanks. I did see the mating part number called out in the H7's schematics, though I was hesitant to use them directly for the aforementioned manual constraint enforcement hulabaloo. It's unfortunate that the expected library sharing mechanics between Altium and CircuitMaker are completely missing, otherwise I might have been able to grab the symbols from the git repo.

I was able to find the project through your user profile. I see the datasheet link and the title image, but the design is listed with no files, which means there's nothing to copy-paste from.

That said, I'm surprised the symbol does not exist already. The H7 is specifically designed to support what I'm aiming to do, so I'd think that reducing friction for intended pathways would be a priority for Arduino to support adoption.

I think I'll draw inspiration from your public project idea and create a template project others can fork, at a minimum. While I have no personal investment in other board layout tools, if I have time, I'll go back and do the same for KiKad/Eagle.

jwestmoreland

legotech25,

Hmmm, let me check that - I posted a schematic and pcb file - not sure why they didn't come up.

I'll take a look and post back here.

Regards,
John W.

jwestmoreland

legotech25,

It's there now - I didn't 'release' it - oops.  I thought once I saved it off it would be available - sorry about that.

You should be able to see it here:
DF40C(2.0)-80DS-0.4V(51) - 'Portenta High Density Possible Mate'


It's a starting point - that's it really - so, good luck with that.

Regards,
John W.

thejerseychemist

#5
Oct 21, 2020, 10:55 pm Last Edit: Oct 22, 2020, 05:27 pm by thejerseychemist
Dear all,

EDIT: After speaking with Arduino technical support, it turns out the answer to my question is that they will not release the footprints for their Pro branded products. To me, this is really, really weird and highly disappointing. What's the point in associating the Pro line of products with open hardware/software if you can't make anything custom yourself?

Did anyone yet find a footprint for the Portenta which is able to be imported into Eagle, rather than the board image PDFs? I too wouldn't mind breaking out the high density connector pins to reduce the number of wires by replacing them with traces to other circuitry to clean up my project; I'm relatively new to PCB manufacture and don't yet trust myself to accurately place the two HDCs at the exact distance if I make the footprint myself (I've also never tried it, in the full disclosure of honesty).

I know that someone has gone to the effort of making a carrier board by breaking out the HDC to terminal blocks. Although this is fine for a prototype, I feel that if one were to use all those terminal blocks, that would be a rats nest of wires!

All the best,
Ryan

legotech25

#6
Oct 22, 2020, 10:17 pm Last Edit: Oct 22, 2020, 10:18 pm by legotech25
Quote
they will not release the footprints for their Pro branded products. To me, this is really, really weird and highly disappointing.
That's ridiculous. Why make a product and not make it as easy to use as possible? There's already limited adoption in niche use cases, and broadly reducing the friction to integrate for minimal investment seems like it should be a trivial decision.

I was able to design the footprint in CircuitMaker, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to share it. I've ordered a board with the footprint, so I'll be able to verify my spacing is right and can pass the value to you.

thejerseychemist

It's stupid, and it's inconvenient, but necessity is the mother of all invention after all so we'll all just have to figure it out ourselves and share the knowledge. 

If they're trying to protect the mysterious carrier board that may or may not come out, I probably wouldn't attempt to make one myself if I just had more details on when precisely the official one is coming and the form it's going to take. I use my projects in research, so I don't tend to have many months to sit on my hands. 

All the best,
Ryan 

jwestmoreland

Hello Ryan,

I guess we need to get some calipers and measure the distances out ourselves then.

I have some older versions of Eagle and I have the new Autodesk stuff - I'm willing to put together a quick
simple layout for the connectors, holes, and things like that to help you get started.

Shame you can't get some easy measurements off of the Altium-365 layout by using cntrl-M.

Regards,
John W.



jwestmoreland

#9
Oct 24, 2020, 01:41 pm Last Edit: Oct 24, 2020, 02:00 pm by jwestmoreland Reason: Adding files to show connector spacing measurements.
Hello Again,

Taking some quick measurements - appears the connector are ~43mm apart - but I need to take some better measurements.

I've attached a couple of snap shots of one of the carrier boards that has been discussed on this forum - from outside pad center to center - it measures 45.71 mm; from inside pad center to center, it measures 40.29 mm.

Regards,
John W.



jwestmoreland

#10
Oct 24, 2020, 02:01 pm Last Edit: Oct 24, 2020, 02:01 pm by jwestmoreland Reason: Add image.
And the next saved image:




jwestmoreland

#11
Oct 24, 2020, 02:25 pm Last Edit: Oct 24, 2020, 02:55 pm by jwestmoreland
Hello Again Ryan,

Are you able to import the attached file - note I used 7Zip to compress it (zip format says this forum).

Regards,
John W.

thejerseychemist

Dear John,

I'm familiar with DWG as an AutoCAD file format, it seems that this is a good way to import artwork to Eagle, however will this generate the associated data (distances) that come with it?

I'll try opening this at the earliest convenience. A cursory glance of the internet shows that a DXF file can be converted to an Eagle script; I use AutoCAD for other things so I'll try and convert your DWG to DXF and then on from there if I cannot find a simpler method in the mean time. 

All the best,
Ryan 

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