Advice needed on controlling a 20v dc motor from a Dual turntable

Hi all:

I'm working on a DIY turntable project and I'd like to use an Uno to control a Dual EDS 910 dc motor sourced from an old CS 620 turntable. According to the service manual I believe this is a 115v, 60 Hz motor. [EDIT -- it's a 20v motor, not 115v.]

I had no problem working with the little DC motor & controller chip that came in a Rex Qualis starter kit, but of course the Dual motor draws much more power. I haven't worked with large motors before and I've been trying to research what kind of controller chip & power supply I'd need to control the Dual, but haven't had much luck -- can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

Do you have the driver board with it? Any idea of the circuit connections?

Thanks for writing back. It did come with a circuit board attached -- not sure if that's the driver board, but this is what I have:

I am not 100% sure but it looks like that green ribbon cable/connector is represented by inputs on the schematic in the service manual, which I've got on my google drive here. I have to admit that I'm not skilled in reading schematics but I see what looks like a 5-pn connector; pin 5 is +20v, pin 4 is ground, pin 3 is +5v. Pins 1&2 connect to other circuits I can't identify.

I can save out a copy of the schematic as a jpg and post it as an image here if that'd be helpful.

Is it possible that the motor itself only runs off of 20 volts? I assumed it was 115 but that may be to power the entire Dual turntable...

Here are (what I hope are) the relevant pages from the schematic:

Dual_schematic-1.jpg

Dual_schematic-2.jpg

Dual_schematic-1.jpg

Dual_schematic-2.jpg

Pin 1 is the speed control, and pin 2 is the speed feedback. It's connector BM 01 should connect to BR 01 on the main board (previous page) but for some odd reason the pin numbers don't match up.

They use a 6805 microcontroller. The speed feedback goes to an interrupt input and speed control comes from some strange combination of A4, A5 and A6. I assume it's just generating a PWM signal.

Anyway, it certainly looks possible, but be prepared for a lot of experimenting! First thing you'll need is a 20VDC power supply. Needn't be regulated - they just use a transformer and bridge rectifier with a resistor and a capacitor to smooth it. Shouldn't need more than a couple of amps. Looking at the circuit again, it should run fine with a 24VDC supply, which is much more common and easier/cheaper to get. You should find one on one of the "big sellers" for well under £20 (GBP).

That's great, thanks -- that makes sense. I'll get a 6805 and a 24v power supply and see if I can get it to spin. I'll report back -- thank you!

darby_gaines:
Hi all:

I'm working on a DIY turntable project and I'd like to use an Uno to control a Dual EDS 910 dc motor sourced from an old CS 620 turntable. According to the service manual I believe this is a 115v, 60 Hz motor.

I had no problem working with the little DC motor & controller chip that came in a Rex Qualis starter kit, but of course the Dual motor draws much more power. I haven't worked with large motors before and I've been trying to research what kind of controller chip & power supply I'd need to control the Dual, but haven't had much luck -- can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

People tend to do this using a step-up transformer, reducing the problem to that of synthesizing a sine-wave
or pair of sine waves and amplifying them using audio amp chip to drive the low voltage winding of the transformer.

This works because turntable motors are low power so the transformer doesn't need to be excessively large.

The isolation keeps the dangerous voltages just on the motor side of the transformer.

You could drive the motor from a high voltage DC rail using standard motor drive techniques and H-bridges,
but there is a risk of creating audible interference if the switching frequency contains any harmonics or
sub-harmonics in the audio band (other than the 50 or 60Hz signal).

I made a battery-powered turntable by disassembling the motor and rewinding with a 12V winding,
but this involved drilling out rivets, counting thousands of turns and use of a winding machine - not
perhaps a trivial approach!

But my turntable motor was a simple 2-phase synchronous motor, which I think is simpler than
yours.

darby_gaines:
... I'll get a 6805 ...

No - their 6805 has a program in it that you - none of us - know anything about! An Arduino is quite capable of doing the job, it's just a case of figuring out exactly how to do it! As I said, be prepared for a lot of experimenting.

PS 6805's are obsolete, anyway.

MarkT:
People tend to do this using a step-up transformer ....

The motor drive board's already there - one input signal and one feed back signal, supplies of +20V (24V will do) and +5V (only used for the feedback). The board does all the fancy phasing - just need to work out how to drive it. Can't be too much involved in driving it from an Arduino.

BTW, the manual it here (link from @darby_gaines).

It looks like a 4 pole motor too...

hammy:
It looks like a 4 pole motor too...

Correct. Just have to work out what the 6805 is doing to drive it. Suspect it's synthesizing a variable-frequency sine wave. The controller circuit is in the manual. Don't know how the coil phasing on the drive board works.

It might be worth just seeing if you can get the driver board to make this work rather than develop something yourself .

Direct drive seems to have gone out of fashion now and there may be a simpler approach to driving a turntable .

hammy:
It might be worth just seeing if you can get the driver board to make this work rather than develop something yourself .

That's what I'm suggesting. He has the driver board.

Ok -- thanks for clarifying that. Obviously this is a bit over my head, but I'll see if I can get the motor to run with just the arduino and power supply.

Hi all, I got the motor to spin! This turned out to be very important:

johndg:
It's connector BM 01 should connect to BR 01 on the main board (previous page) but for some odd reason the pin numbers don't match up.

I had tried sending an analog write command to pin 1 on the ribbon cable for the motor speed, 5v to pin 3, ground to pin 4, and 20v to pin 5. Nothing happened. But after re-reading johndg's note on the pin numbers not matching up I tried flipping the order, and it came to life. So now (on the ribbon cable, anyway) it's:

pin 1 - +20v
pin 2 - ground
pin 3 - +5v
pin 4 - (not using it yet)
pin 5 - Speed control from the Arduino

I don't know if that's the "correct" order, but at least it spins. Thanks for your help on this.

It seems to spin at more or less the same speed no matter what value I give to 'speed control,' it's either off or fast. Can't seem to get any inbetween values, and ideally I'd like to get it to spin at 45 rpm. Any thoughts on that?

Movement is good! I think the speed control should be a (slow) sine wave (11/3 second period for 45rpm). The PWM output must be smoothed - the arrangement in the picture below should do it - sorry about the (lack of) clarity, it's a 100 ohm resistor an a 1 microfarad capacitor, but it's not at all critical.

Here's a bit of code to try:

float A;      // A holds the angle (radians). Don't like using
              // single-character variable names, but this sketch
              // is so tiny, I'll excuse myself!
int pin = 3;  // speed control output pin (must be PWM capable)

void setup() {

  pinMode(pin, OUTPUT);
  A = 0;
}

void loop() {
  int S, M;

  S = (int) (sin(A) * 100.0);     // sin() goes from -1 to 1, so S will go from -100 to +100
  M = map(S, -100, 100, 0, 255);  // PWM goes from 0 to 255
  analogWrite(pin, M);
  A += 0.024;                     // The increment (0.024) and the 10ms delay are guesses to
  delay(10);                      // get an output at about 0.75 Hz (45 per minute, 1.3 second period)
}

Good luck!

WIN_20210106_11_46_35_Pro.jpg

WIN_20210106_11_46_35_Pro.jpg

Excellent, I will try that and report back, thank you again for your help!

Do you have the driver board with it? then ask me I will help you

leo157:
Do you have the driver board with it? then ask me I will help you

Yes, I do. It's spinning right now...

johndg:
Movement is good! I think the speed control should be a (slow) sine wave (11/3 second period for 45rpm). The PWM output must be smoothed - the arrangement in the picture below should do it - sorry about the (lack of) clarity, it's a 100 ohm resistor an a 1 microfarad capacitor, but it's not at all critical.

Here's a bit of code to try:

float A;      // A holds the angle (radians). Don't like using

// single-character variable names, but this sketch
              // is so tiny, I'll excuse myself!
int pin = 3;  // speed control output pin (must be PWM capable)

void setup() {

pinMode(pin, OUTPUT);
  A = 0;
}

void loop() {
  int S, M;

S = (int) (sin(A) * 100.0);    // sin() goes from -1 to 1, so S will go from -100 to +100
  M = map(S, -100, 100, 0, 255);  // PWM goes from 0 to 255
  analogWrite(pin, M);
  A += 0.024;                    // The increment (0.024) and the 10ms delay are guesses to
  delay(10);                      // get an output at about 0.75 Hz (45 per minute, 1.3 second period)
}




Good luck!



![WIN_20210106_11_46_35_Pro.jpg|318x174](upload://iS9Vq0iI7BwMuoMRkXr94tlBz2d.jpeg)

Ok. So, what happens with this code is that it does change the speed, but because the speed is constantly changing, the motor oscillates (which won't really work for playing a record).

I suspect this motor might just want a single, constant integer to run smoothly. I know that, based on what you've told me, I should be able to calculate this to give me 45 rpm, but...math isn't really my strong point, I'm afraid.

I did try giving it various speed values via a simple analog write command. Using the resistor+capacitor circuit you gave me I was able to get different speeds, although the range seems limited. 9 was the absolute lowest value that would spin the motor. For anything above 100 I wasn't really able to detect much of a difference, speed-wise.