I do notice an increase in problems with the glass I mail out around Christmas. The breakage goes up to maybe 0.5%, from 0.1% the rest of the year so really not much of a concern. The most difficult to ship product is the didgeridoos, which are a 5 ft long glass tube. I double box them and can ship them all the way across the country without problems but it's the only product I disable international shipping on because that seems like it would be asking for trouble. On all my other products I've actually been reducing my shipping box sizes and the amount of padding because the breakage rate is so low. I was much more paranoid about it when I first started doing online sales.
I haven't ever shipped palettes but I frequently receive them and that's actually where I see the worst breakage. I think the culprit is the forklifts.
The bigger problem for me is the packages that either get misdelivered or stolen. That goes way up around Christmas. It ends up being time consuming to deal with the customer and the postal service trying to figure out if it can be recovered before I have to resort to giving a refund. USPS refuses to take any responsibility even when their geotracking shows the package was delivered to the wrong address.
Boardburner2:
Daveinnj is right i think it is about what works now with the delivery companies.
Unless you ha
New batteries again. >:(
Unless you have the skills to convert your accelerometer results to new packaging methods this could be an expensive proposition.
I do not know much about packaging but if you have an existing business that knows about this , possibly.
If for instance you are shipping wine bottles i doubt you are the only victim of deteriorating courrier methods.
I would expect packaging manufacturers to be aware of this and have a solution.
Albeit at a cost.
I re-read the first post.
we can help with Aruino stuff. selecting and setting up circuits, etc.
some factory floor testing to make sure the results are as expected.
in case you did not know, I am in NJ, in the USA.
if you need to test a shipment, I would be happy to photograph what is received and re-label the package for return shipment.
pert:
I haven't ever shipped palettes but I frequently receive them and that's actually where I see the worst breakage. I think the culprit is the forklifts.
Packing !
At 5 ft long excessive packing could cause this. I am assuming you are using euro 2 pallets for this.
With long glass tubes if there is too much cushioning the bending moment can cause breakage with a big drop off a forklift.
No definitive data though.
Robin2:
Because we've been using it for many years with many couriers, including our last one that we had for several years. And the QA guy at our depot has personally visited us a number of times, checked it, watched us pack etc.
This suggests fairly clearly that the problem rests with the cheaper courier you are using.
So the question you have to face is whether the savings (compared to your previous courier) offset the cost and inconvenience of the breakages.
I know you said earlier "you get what you pay for but you also have to be able to pay for it" - but maybe you have simply got to the unacceptable bottom?
...R
no, trust me, we are nowhere near the bottom. this is reputable courier (as much as any are) and not one of the cheapest or terrible ones like Yodel.
Hi,
Just reading through the thread, have your depot guys done a demographic of the damaged packages.
Do you get a % more damage from customers in one part of the country to another when you look at size of orders to those areas.
Being Sherlock here, your problem could be one of the handling depots in the delivery company or road route or airline or rail company.
Or even a Monday work blues.
TomGeorge:
Hi,
Just reading through the thread, have your depot guys done a demographic of the damaged packages.
Do you get a % more damage from customers in one part of the country to another when you look at size of orders to those areas.
Being Sherlock here, your problem could be one of the handling depots in the delivery company or road route or airline or rail company.
Or even a Monday work blues.
Tom...
all these would be answered by the idea the OP offered in his first post. create a data logger with sensors, even GPS, and send in the same box.
I had a thought that it could be lousy customers that claim damaged goods.
or this guy
One place I worked we used to unload articulated lorries by hand and take the contents up two floors as there was no service lift. This was done by chain gang with anything of a suitable size and weight being thrown person to person, including cases containing glass and liquid.
Any breakages had normally already occurred when the goods were in pallets in the lorry, it was very rare for things (or people) to get damaged as packages were thrown along the line even if there was horseplay.
The idea of shipping some kind of tracking device to record what is done to a package seems like an attractive one. However it might be difficult to separate destructive handling from vigorous but actually quite safe handling. It also might be very difficult to get the courier to understand the information and to interpret it in the same way you do. If the courier stonewalls the sight of broken packages are they really going to pay attention to information on g forces?
TomGeorge:
Hi,True, but the OP has all this information already with invoices and returned goods, and damaged goods claims.
Tom....
this is not entirely correct.
with returned goods showing damage.
you do not know if it was damaged by :
the driver picking it up
the person unloading the truck
the handlers in the warehose
the handler loading the first transfer vehicle
the drive between depots
the unloading at the first depot
the handling in the warehouse
the loading onto the second transfer truck
the ride in the second transfer truck
the unloading at the final warehouse
moving in the warehouse
loading onto the delivery vehicle
inside of the delivery vehicle
by the driver at the customer destination.
Can you say, without any reservation that the unloading at the first terminal did either 100% or 0% of the breakage ?
if the results were that there was breakage at every point, then the problem is the packaging.
if the results show that 100% of the breakage was at the first transfer, then you go to the company for corrective measures.
I agree that if you find 90% of damage is to 3 people, you have to wonder if they are making false claims.
Now, I will ask the group a question.
pro-mini
vibration sensors
GPS
impact sensor
battery
enclosure
what do you think it would cost to put that together ?
dave-in-nj:
what do you think it would cost to put that together ?
I'm not convinced that GPS adds any value - it may not be able to receive a signal for larger periods. I reckon an RTC that allows the date and time to be recorded would be just as useful.
HOWEVER ... the real answer seems to be to use the previous courier who could deliver the goods without excessive breakages.
Robin2:
I'm not convinced that GPS adds any value - it may not be able to receive a signal for larger periods. I reckon an RTC that allows the date and time to be recorded would be just as useful.
HOWEVER ... the real answer seems to be to use the previous courier who could deliver the goods without excessive breakages.
...R
Thanks but it really isn't the answer. They are over 3 times as expensive and it simply cannot be done. They've priced themselves out of this market.
No offence, but I came here to ask about the technical side.
jago2:
I came here to ask about the technical side.
we can help you with your product selections and guide you on your programming needs.
it was pointed out that there are a number of devices on the market to help track packages. if none of them fit your needs, or you just want to make your own, here is a simple starting list of options.
main boards :
pro-mini
Nano
wemos D-1
pros's smaller in sizes, lots of pins
sensors ;
vibrations
shocks
temperature
gyroscope for angles
atmospheric pressure
humidity
real time clock
GPS
there can be lots more, some have good points
the GPS may not work for a large portion of the journey, but may work inside of open warehouses revealing where it traveled. information could be valuable.
list what you think you would want to have and let us know what your questions are.
dave-in-nj:
this is not entirely correct.
with returned goods showing damage.
you do not know if it was damaged by :
inside of the delivery vehicle
by the driver at the customer destination.
Can you say, without any reservation that the unloading at the first terminal did either 100% or 0% of the breakage ?
if the results were that there was breakage at every point, then the problem is the packaging.
if the results show that 100% of the breakage was at the first transfer, then you go to the company for corrective measures.
I agree that if you find 90% of damage is to 3 people, you have to wonder if they are making false claims.
But you could get a possible paper trail from manufacturer to customer.
Any overlay of routes would have to be suspicious.
For example if this was here in Australia.
Parcel originates in Victoria, and I find my East Coast customers are returning damaged goods, but my West Coast don't.
What does it tell you.
The company is capable of carrying my parcels, but somewhere on the East Coast route there is something wrong.
If I further find the majority of problems is mid East Coast, then it narrows it down even further.
And that would just be from using the damaged goods return forms.
You then ask the carrier to "Please Explain" how he can deliver safely to one area but not another?
With respect to the list of parts, I wouldn't quote, I'd phone my friendly Chinese Manufacturer and let him under quote the rest of us.
The GPS in a container would have Rx problems, but an RTC and logging would be good.
If you put it in every parcel, you would have to offer a return fee to get it back.
I calibrate humidity and temp logging devices about 25mm diameter and 40mm long, they can be as low as $30 to $40.
But it would be interesting to see what price a simple unit with accel ,rtc , mem card, battery would cost assembled.
jago2:
No offence, but I came here to ask about the technical side.
Sorry but this happens in forums, open minds to different ways to solve problems.
Tom...
jago2:
Thanks but it really isn't the answer. They are over 3 times as expensive and it simply cannot be done. They've priced themselves out of this market.
I do understand that issue and I sympathize. But to my mind, based on what you have told us so far, it is the more expensive courier or nothing. I don't believe this is amenable to a technical solution.
The problem arises while your products are in the hands of the courier and they do not seem to be prepared to solve the problem. From what you have told us the courier firm is well aware of your concerns. More detailed evidence won't make them more aware.
I know this is not what you want to hear.
...R
PS.. Don't worry. I am not going to say this again
Robin2:
I do understand that issue and I sympathize. But to my mind, based on what you have told us so far, it is the more expensive courier or nothing. I don't believe this is amenable to a technical solution.
The problem arises while your products are in the hands of the courier and they do not seem to be prepared to solve the problem. From what you have told us the courier firm is well aware of your concerns. More detailed evidence won't make them more aware.
I know this is not what you want to hear.
...R
PS.. Don't worry. I am not going to say this again
One man at HQ is being troublesome. Our local depot (a major city - therefore with a lot of influence) is on our side. They don't want to lose our business, it's a good-sized account. We don't want to have to change courier.
This isn't happening to all parcels - obviously - and we are simply trying to find out if we can track where the breakages are happening. Often with couriers it's certain depots that cause problems, or certain handlers or drivers. If we can pinpoint something that shows where it is happening, or any pattern (for instance it could be a particular worker at the local depot or one of the national hubs) the courier company would want to know that and would act.
The idea of the most expensive courier - that is not financially viable - or nothing is simple not a practical option but thanks for your input.
